cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/2331989
I don’t really think he knows this site’s culture at all. No one is dissuading people from reading theory lol
Yey or ney for him?
As someone said in the post
As far as I can tell, he’s a guy who spends all his time posting about how all leftists do is post.
And this ain’t the first time, Roderick’s a bit terminally online, arguing against other progressives like JT (Second Thought) and Michael Hudson…
Edit:
Ok I’ve made a right-deviationist mistake in saying that Michael Hudson is a progressive, and indirectly agreeing with the views of the former…
I’ve not investigated into JT’s MMT videos nor looked carefully into Hudson (I thought he was also against capitalism, turns out, only finance and feudalism…, just cares for industrial capitalism)
Michael Hudson
Literally who?
Someone well worth reading. He grew up in a Trotskyist household. Became a banker/economist. His mentor agreed to mentor him if he read Marx, Theories of Surplus Value and everything cited in it. Hence Hudson’s ability to see and explain how bourgeois economics works and why and where it fails/will fail. He wrote a report that made him semi famous and apparently wealthy; later published as a book now in it’s third edition, Superimperialism.
Just don’t expect a Leninist conclusion of ‘that’s why we need a revolution and here’s how to do it’. He frequently kinda implies that all the bad things will simply disappear due to the weight of capitalist contradictions.
Have to admit, he’s hard going even for me, who’s read a reasonable amount of political economy. It’s the same with his video/audio recordings and writing, tbh. I struggle to follow what he’s saying because of the structure. He kind of starts too far into the argument IMO but you can piece things together by the end.
He is certainly lacking an understanding of capitalism as a whole system, suggesting reforms to make it run smoother rather than seeing it as a fundamentally flawed and contradictory system.
Maybe I’ve not read enough of his work, but I haven’t interpreted MH as saying that.
He’s always going off about how the US was stupid to have neoliberalism and high debt (the result of the natural evolution of capitalism) and instead they should’ve stayed Keynesian industrial capitalist similar to Germany or China.
I responded to this in my other comment but in addition I agree that neoliberalism was a poor choice. I don’t think you can read much into this kind of thing unless you (a) ask for clarification and more detail and/or (b) know who he thinks is the intended audience. I don’t think there’s much inherently wrong with pointing out the US’s missteps. The difference may be in how the message is delivered.
It highly implies it’s best to reform the system into a better “industrial capitalism.” I think a Hudson supporter told me that he thinks a “purer” contradiction between the working and capitalist class could bring about socialism better, which is weird because it never has, that would take too long, and it’s a reactionary position wanting to return from a higher phase of capitalism to a lower one just like liberals (caring about small businesses).
This all just sounds vaguely Trotskyist to me.
And this ain’t the first time, Roderick’s a bit terminally online, arguing against other based progressive like JT (Second Thought) and Michael Hudson…
Why shouldn’t he? Hudson’s following reproduces Industrial Capitalist apologia in the same way that fed Social Chauvinism in Europe prior to WW1 (and during the height of Imperialism’s African carve). I can see the consequences of Hudson in the patsoc space. Second Thought’s video on MMT was uncritical and like Hudson reproduces petty booj cope about “the economy” and reform.
Hudson and ST are Marxist educators, they should be criticized so that their performance at that role can improve. If we are giving these people a living as revolutionary educators, shouldn’t they be held to the highest standards?
The western left has a deep cultural lack of seriousness (I wonder why that is?). Memes and jokes are fine but bigotry and anti-intellectualism shouldn’t be passed off as jokes to avoid criticism.
Michael Hudson is not a based progressive, he is a PB academic with a long background working for banks and other capitalist institutions. He posts his work on the literal fascist website Unz review (which he still does years after being notified it was a literal fascist website in case he was unaware) where the comments there are full of people picking up on his fascist and anti-Semitic dog whistles and running with them. All his focus on “finance capital” is quite interesting when you look at his writing about Jesus being killed by Jewish financiers and how his solution to fight finance capital is essentially empowering industrial capital. What other groups were very pro industrial capital and focused heavily on Jews as a financial elite? Probably some of the ones who are big fans of Unz Review, so Hudson seems to have chosen the right place to voluntarily publish his work online.
He was raised by Trots and his hyper focus on economics allows him to avoid any revolutionary analysis; Hudson is essentially pushing a patsoc/demsoc narrative about “fixing” the US economy by trying to roll back finance capital and do some New Deal shit which is caping for capital, not fighting it.
There may be value in his knowledge as an economist but he’s absolutely not based or someone I would look to for any info outside of very specific economic data that also isn’t super relevant in any organizing arena I’ve ever seen.
As far as Roderic Day goes, I’m not on social media to know about how terminally online he, his posts, or personality are, but I have read a few of his essays which I found very well done and informative.
how his solution to fight finance capital is essentially empowering industrial capital. What other groups were very pro industrial capital and focused heavily on Jews as a financial elite? Probably some of the ones who are big fans of Unz Review, so Hudson seems to have chosen the right place to voluntarily publish his work online.
He was raised by Trots and his hyper focus on economics allows him to avoid any revolutionary analysis; Hudson is essentially pushing a patsoc/demsoc narrative about “fixing” the US economy by trying to roll back finance capital and do some New Deal shit which is caping for capital, not fighting it.
The hell? I screwed up in thinking that… he may have abhored Larouchites, but I guess his economic policy and thinking is Larouchism…
He has been given a lot of space on many leftish / left adjacent platforms over the last several years which has given him a lot of credibility. I was very surprised to see Ben Norton giving him space on his channel for instance, someone I typically trust more than the majority of other influencers/journalists.
MH is very good at explaining how things currently work and why. I don’t think he can be ignored for that because there aren’t many who can or are willing to share his insights. That might be why he gets airtime. He does allude to being a Trotskyist. And he clearly knows Marx. But I’ve never really heard him say anything that I’d consider to be Marxist in terms of what comes next or how we get there. I always thought he was a bit vague on that but I haven’t read all his works.
I’d really like to know what the “Christian nonsense” part is about lol.
And hexbear is very self-aware that it’s just an obscure site in some dusty corner of the internet for hanging out and shitposting, there’s no pretense of being an “organization”
Also, we constantly tell people to read theory, even the comment he used as an example does in no way refute that, I have no idea how he got from “not all knowledge comes from books and articles” to “don’t read theory”
I think by Christian nonsense he means what we’d call glorifying poverty. He might be saying being impoverished doesn’t offer any sort of specific insight.
Yea its about the poverty cult path some leftists take.
That’s not something that happens on hexbear though
Look at the image he literally referenced above.
That post is literally just saying that material conditions influence people’s politics, a point he himself has made.
Yes, but the post says you can’t be a communist unless you experience the material conditions. There is a strong correlation between class and ideology, but class traitors exist from the bourgeoisie like Engels.
They’re talking about the general case. Unfortunately I can’t seem to locate that user or find the post to clarify. But given two interpretations of, “This person was speaking 100% literally and believes in complete nonsense about poverty fetishization that nobody agrees with,” or, “This person omitted a probably necessary qualifier to come across more strongly while making a reasonable and correct point” I’m inclined to go with the reasonably charitable interpretation. Though the poor phrasing might be why it didn’t get many upvotes, and more comments.
Yay, he’s right. He’s a little too online, but principled. I may be why he knows about hexbear. Idk what he said about JT, but it was probably reasonable. I have my own criticisms of him, but he’s overall positive. Also, Hudson’s a total revisionist. I struggled against that stance and was defeated.
It was about ST’s MMT video, it was deserved.
I think he expects too much from what at its foundation is a link aggregation website.
What he expects is for the western left to take itself more seriously if it’s to have any success at all, and dodging critique by hiding behind “it’s a site for memes” isn’t doing any good to anyone that actually wants change.
Not “expecting too much” from a link aggregation site is like not expecting too much from any western communists. The masses are online and online spaces are not separated from “real” life like that. No one is saying we can’t have any fun, but at the end of the day If we don’t take ourselves seriously why should anyone else take us seriously.
While I do find lemmygrad a bit better than hexbear in regards to this, it also still has an abundance of low effort meme posts and a lack of serious discussion.
He’s talked several times about creating such a space, and why not? We are experimenting many things still, maybe this kind of space could work. I take the view that there’s always something to learn about anything, whether we like it or not, or whether we intended for it to be a lesson or not.
He’s also not entirely against fun and memes, it’s just that it’s not his thing. I’ve talked to him in DMs once and he said that’s fine with him, it’s just not what he’s looking for. That’s valid too.
I think on some level people think of him to be infallible and the end all be all, but I don’t think he claims to be. He’s just very present and he makes a lot of good points, which perhaps cultivates this image in the process (which I don’t think is intended). I mean that we can have Lemmygrad and Hexbear, and there can also be a third instance that’s this more serious, heavier moderation space.
Imo its an L take, sure there are some childish hexbearers but there are many more promoting reading theory and organizing, they are actually very deep into das Kapital. Its a big community…
Although its kind of fun to poke our hexbear comrades from time to time.
the post in question only has 20 something upbeats, and like 60 comments
hexbear is suddenly a united front umbrella group and we all agree all the time.
I hope I’m not crucified for this but I can’t stand this guy. People have made good points about him, and theoretically/intellectually he is brilliant - we all know communists need to be engaged in serious business and not just spam posting memes and hanging out in our circle-jerk platforms.
But is he not a flaming hypocrite? I swear I’ve read something about how he isn’t even involved in an organization because he “just can’t find anything serious enough” (this could be a dream on my part tho) - that is just insufferable. There are a few good orgs in the US/Canadian area and it’s ridiculous to throw everything out because they don’t adhere to page 4858584 line 5 of some obscure Marxist’s writing. It seems to me that he dishes out criticism after criticism and spams writings on the internet, engaging in borderline useless beef that doesn’t get much traction, all while being… chronically online himself?
I just think that like, anyone who is willing/able to understand/actually applying this level of Marxist thought isn’t just sitting online anymore and doesn’t need constant “takedowns” because someone said something vaguely wrong. JT makes one iffy MMT video that is literally one of his least effectual creations and dude wets his pants over it. I’m not saying don’t criticize but the frequency in which he makes them, combined with his harsh ass wording, combined with the (maybe?) fact that he is not even doing anything serious in real life? Rubs me the wrong way and just paints the stereotypical insufferable communist picture we all know.
He extrapolated very erroneously that anyone said don’t read theory here, and although the “you have to be a literal slave to be a commie” is braindead, he seems to latch on to literally anything that could be false and go deboonk mode.
Part of flowing through the masses and being one of them is not being an insufferable nerd. If this guy preaches sincerity and seriousness, then I think we should get serious that this rhetoric and behavior online isn’t doing shit other than MAYBE fine-tuning already-ML-aligned people. There’s a use for that, but good lord, if he tried this shit in an organization he would be hated. You can’t be obnoxious to your comrades or random members of society if you expect anything.
I could be going too harsh here honestly, I just have had these thoughts for quite a while and never really said anything lol. If it is proven true that he is in fact in a real life org then a lot of this would fall through and I would only stand on “stop being annoying” point, but I don’t know. You have to be personable and digestible to be an effective communist, not just “I know my shit and you don’t and here’s why”
Mucho texto over, burn me alive if necessary
Edit: Stawp downvoting me and explainnnnn
I like Roderic. He reminds us (communists) that it’s not all memes and fun, there’s serious effort that needs to be made and the course this effort should take is found in theory.
Yes you could say he’s sometimes a bit too harsh in his criticism, but he also makes tons of good points and we need people like him too, with or without their flaws. Nobody’s perfect. He’s harsh, but he’s not insulting (that I’ve seen) and in the end he does it to reach a better understanding of the matter with the people he struggles with. It took me a while in my life to detach from “neutral language criticism” and not see it as harsh criticism because it didn’t have a word of praise in it (like “you’re partly correct” or “you’re on the right track but”). This is what he does, is neutral criticism. He doesn’t go out of his way to insult or demean you but makes you see his point.
He spends a lot of time on Twitter, sure why not, but he’s also one of the only people there that will talk to you in DMs and answer your questions there, and even if you have 2 followers – many do not bother to talk to you either because they have too many notifications (he has a big account so I’m sure he has the notifs too) or because you don’t have followers. Also anyone can have a Twitter account, and I know many big accounts like Roderic’s that are not half as good at Marxism as he is.
His thing, from what I can tell, is to engage with the points and the criticism. Many people dismiss criticisms because they see it as wrong from the get-go, and don’t even want to try and falsify it on that basis. He pushes us rather to engage with it, even if it’s wrong, in order to show why it’s wrong or doesn’t apply, thereby reaching a higher level of understanding from both parties. He can be wrong too and doesn’t claim to know everything.
