I’m so severely sick of dealing with the class of people who lost the election for Democrats in 2024 by refusing to address the fact what the administration had aided and abbetted the whole cloth slaughter of a people and then claim resistance to that was a psyop or conspiracy.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
Its not our fault you and every other drooling dipshit refused to actually bother to look at the situation objectively and from a perspective of “which option of the LITERALLY ONLY 2 VIABLE OPTIONS leads to less deaths”?
Maybe this November you and the rest of the dipshits will rub to braincells together and actually vote for the only option that kills less people, and hosts any political movement against killing people in general.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
Democrats sure as fuck were. And plenty of “liberals” here. We’ve got all the receipts.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
You needed to run an anti-genocide candidate to stop him. You sabotaged that.
For like, the 400th time…
the dipshits
YOUR THE FUCKING DIPSHIT HERE!!!
You can’t run a pro-genocide in the anti-genocide lane and expect to win. You lose the fucking election.
THE ONLY FUCKING OPTION IS TO MOVE THE CANDIDATE TO BEING ANTI-GENOCIDE!!
Thats it. Period. Fin. Finito. Finale. Pau.
You side offers no credible mechansism for how to move an electorate. The only other option is to move the candidate.
The fucking idiots here are the ones who expected American voters to behave differently than they do. You don’t get a choice in how voters behave. You can only adapt to it. You, YOU IN PARTICULAR, refuse to live in a world where the strategy maps to how real actual fucking voters behave.
Your fucking strategy is FUCKING WORTHLESS and just hands power to fascists. THats it. And Democrats did exactly what you wanted them to. And they handed the fucking power to fascists. So since you wont fucking pull your head out of your ass and live in an evidence based reality, I can only assume, you too also want to hand power to fascists.
Thankfully you peices of shit have completely lost control of the base and the party, and people who think like you are being ignore at scale, since all you are capable of is handing power to fascists.
> Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
Democrats sure as fuck were. And plenty of “liberals” here. We’ve got all the receipts.
And you’re starting out by completely shifting the goalposts. This is gonna be fun.
I’ll restate it again so its clear. LEFTISTS never denied the establishment DNC’s denial of and support for the genocide in Palestine. We told you Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide in Palestine and start and support countless new ones, and that that wouldn’t happen under Kamala. AND WE WERE RIGHT. COPE AND SEETHE
> We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
You needed to run an anti-genocide candidate to stop him. You sabotaged that.
For like, the 400th time…
Now we’re going into full schizo-posting.
When the fuck did leftists sabotage getting an anti-genocide candidate? Let’s review the history.:
Supported Bernie Sanders in 2016, but he lost so we supported the far less harmful candidate than Trump who both won their primary and had the only chance to defeat him. That person lost.
Leftists supported Bernie Sanders in 2020, but he lost so we supported the far less harmful candidate than Trump who both won their primary and had the only chance to defeat him. That person won.
Leftists supported doing another primary in 2024, but Biden refused to step down early enough, so it didn’t happen.
The DNC APPOINTED KAMALA because she was literally the VP and there was no time to conduct an actual primary. Kamala got the ticket.
And because people who are on the left to benefit society rather than do stupid fucking online virtue signalling in obscure social media platforms (you), aren’t sociopathic or mentally disabled, we voted for the only viable candidate to defeat Trump because Trump was known and guarantee to be objectively worse on all fronts. AND WE WERE RIGHT.
> the dipshits
YOUR THE FUCKING DIPSHIT HERE!!!
I’m not the one both sides-ing as one side, AND ONLY ONE SIDE is ushering in fascism and starting a new genocide every month.
You can’t run a pro-genocide in the anti-genocide lane and expect to win. You lose the fucking election.
Hey dumbfuck, remember when it wasn’t our choice?
Hey dumbfuck, remember when we told you Trump was BY FAR more genocidal than any Dem and he would start multiple new genocides, including on US soil?
Hey dumbfuck, remember its YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM AND NO ONE ELSE’S that you are so insanely fucking short sighted, self-absorbed, and divorced from reality that you genuinely believe not supporting the ONLY VIABLE CANDIDATE to defeat the fascist one somehow is the anti-genocide stance?
THE ONLY FUCKING OPTION IS TO MOVE THE CANDIDATE TO BEING ANTI-GENOCIDE!!
And in the fantasy land you occupy, that happens overnight, or let alone in the system we occupy.
In reality, politicians in the US are greatly detatched from their voterbase and money has historically determined most elections.
Since we don’t live in your fantasy land, we chose the ONLY VIABLE OPTION TO DEFEATING LITERAL FASCISM IN 2024, which was KAMALA
Thats it. Period. Fin. Finito. Finale. Pau.
Yeah that’s it, you’re a fucking moron who lives in fantasy land like every other fake leftist sack of shit who refuses to do even the most simple of meaningful action to make the world a better place, even if the only option in the moment is to not make it worse.
You side offers no credible mechansism for how to move an electorate. The only other option is to move the candidate.
Hey dumbfuck, did you see the massive wins from progressive and DSA candidates this year?
Wanna know how that happened?
THE DEM PRIMARIES
The strategy was, and had always been, to infiltrate the Dems with progressive candidates to sieze power from the establishment Dems, and IT WORKS.
But assholes like you are so insanely short sighted, and care so little about marginalized people, that everyone was an acceptable casualty to your lack of foresight and patience. And now we’re here.
The fucking idiots here are the ones who expected American voters to behave differently than they do.
No, we simply did and are telling you the reality of the situation.
Its laughable you would EVER accuse anyone else of unrealistic expectations when you’ve demonstrated a complete divorce from the reality of the US election system and context to the 2024 election.
You don’t get a choice in how voters behave.
No, but you can certainly influence the electorate with everything from canvassing, to donating to candidates, to becoming a poll worker, to even just not spewing far-right infiltration propaganda to other leftists that convinces them to not vote, or to vote against their own interests like in a non-viable 3rd party.
You can only adapt to it. You, YOU IN PARTICULAR, refuse to live in a world where the strategy maps to how real actual fucking voters behave.
Again, rich coming from the dipshit who thinks we ever had a chance to force the DNC to host a primary in July of 2024 and get an anti-genocide candidate in front of Kamala and win that ticket. Because that’s what would need to have happened for your dumbass arguments to work.
Your fucking strategy is FUCKING WORTHLESS and just hands power to fascists.
My fucking dude, you dumb fucks didn’t show up for Kamala. She lost due to a lack of votes. There was a lack of votes because of defeatist assholes like you prioritizing your fucking egos over what is objectively the only viable option against fascism.
You’re also so insanely delusional, you keep pinning the actions of the DNC onto leftists who were smart enough to see this.
THats it. And Democrats did exactly what you wanted them to.
Time to take the meds from the nurse.
And they handed the fucking power to fascists.
Because a lack of voter turnout to stop the fascists, heavily motivated by dumbfucks like you who think withholding the vote would magically change Kamala’s mind or guarantee a better candidate for 2028 or something.
IT DIDN’T WORK IN 2016, IT WASNT GONNA WORK IN 2024. AND WE TOLD YOU IDIOTS THAT.
So since you wont fucking pull your head out of your ass and live in an evidence based reality, I can only assume, you too also want to hand power to fascists.
The complete total lack of self awareness and self reflection from you is on a new level that only exists under Trump and his supporters.
Thankfully you peices of shit have completely lost control of the base and the party, and people who think like you are being ignore at scale, since all you are capable of is handing power to fascists.
Hey dumbfuck, go vote for the DNC candidate in your area regardless if they’re an Israeli puppet or not. I plainly explained why that’s important. All you did was verbally ball up your feces and chew on it in front of everyone on Lemmy. Good job.
I am really deeply convinced most of the people who make comments like that online are right wing trolls, because there’s pretty much no better advertisement for the Republican party at this point than pretending like there’s a sizable group of people who actually liked the Biden administration. Like even if you are a Joe Biden superfan, you’ve gotta understand he got rejected in 2024 and there’s zero point now in trying to rehabilitate his brand. Telling everyone how great Newsome is I would understand (though obviously disagree with), but simping for Biden at this point? Doesn’t make any sense unless you’re trying to piss off progressive voters.
Or, you know, not voting against the guy who told us he was going to be a dictator who wants to nuke Gaza and turn it into a resort was a stupid choice.
Neither viable option promised good things for Gaza, but one promised bad things. The fact that people can’t understand that is why we’re in this mess.
At least there was a chance that Harris was bullshitting to get funding for a last minute campaign against a guy baked by multiple billionaires. She was the one in the Biden administration pushing for the investigation required to stop arming Israel.
Trump just wants to cause pain because he gets off on it.
That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle.
You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.
I’m so severely sick of dealing with the class of people who lost the election for Democrats in 2024 by refusing to address the fact what the administration had aided and abbetted the whole cloth slaughter of a people and then claim resistance to that was a psyop or conspiracy.
You lost us that election doing so. Please stop.
Literally no leftists were denying or avoiding Biden/Kamala’s support of the genocide.
We were telling you people that Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide, and start new ones while also destroying global peace. And he did.
Its not our fault you and every other drooling dipshit refused to actually bother to look at the situation objectively and from a perspective of “which option of the LITERALLY ONLY 2 VIABLE OPTIONS leads to less deaths”?
Maybe this November you and the rest of the dipshits will rub to braincells together and actually vote for the only option that kills less people, and hosts any political movement against killing people in general.
Democrats sure as fuck were. And plenty of “liberals” here. We’ve got all the receipts.
You needed to run an anti-genocide candidate to stop him. You sabotaged that.
For like, the 400th time…
YOUR THE FUCKING DIPSHIT HERE!!!
You can’t run a pro-genocide in the anti-genocide lane and expect to win. You lose the fucking election.
THE ONLY FUCKING OPTION IS TO MOVE THE CANDIDATE TO BEING ANTI-GENOCIDE!!
Thats it. Period. Fin. Finito. Finale. Pau.
You side offers no credible mechansism for how to move an electorate. The only other option is to move the candidate.
The fucking idiots here are the ones who expected American voters to behave differently than they do. You don’t get a choice in how voters behave. You can only adapt to it. You, YOU IN PARTICULAR, refuse to live in a world where the strategy maps to how real actual fucking voters behave.
Your fucking strategy is FUCKING WORTHLESS and just hands power to fascists. THats it. And Democrats did exactly what you wanted them to. And they handed the fucking power to fascists. So since you wont fucking pull your head out of your ass and live in an evidence based reality, I can only assume, you too also want to hand power to fascists.
Thankfully you peices of shit have completely lost control of the base and the party, and people who think like you are being ignore at scale, since all you are capable of is handing power to fascists.
And you’re starting out by completely shifting the goalposts. This is gonna be fun.
I’ll restate it again so its clear. LEFTISTS never denied the establishment DNC’s denial of and support for the genocide in Palestine. We told you Trump would hyper-esculate the genocide in Palestine and start and support countless new ones, and that that wouldn’t happen under Kamala. AND WE WERE RIGHT. COPE AND SEETHE
Now we’re going into full schizo-posting.
When the fuck did leftists sabotage getting an anti-genocide candidate? Let’s review the history.:
I’m not the one both sides-ing as one side, AND ONLY ONE SIDE is ushering in fascism and starting a new genocide every month.
Hey dumbfuck, remember when it wasn’t our choice?
Hey dumbfuck, remember when we told you Trump was BY FAR more genocidal than any Dem and he would start multiple new genocides, including on US soil?
Hey dumbfuck, remember its YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM AND NO ONE ELSE’S that you are so insanely fucking short sighted, self-absorbed, and divorced from reality that you genuinely believe not supporting the ONLY VIABLE CANDIDATE to defeat the fascist one somehow is the anti-genocide stance?
And in the fantasy land you occupy, that happens overnight, or let alone in the system we occupy.
In reality, politicians in the US are greatly detatched from their voterbase and money has historically determined most elections.
Since we don’t live in your fantasy land, we chose the ONLY VIABLE OPTION TO DEFEATING LITERAL FASCISM IN 2024, which was KAMALA
Yeah that’s it, you’re a fucking moron who lives in fantasy land like every other fake leftist sack of shit who refuses to do even the most simple of meaningful action to make the world a better place, even if the only option in the moment is to not make it worse.
Hey dumbfuck, did you see the massive wins from progressive and DSA candidates this year?
Wanna know how that happened?
THE DEM PRIMARIES
The strategy was, and had always been, to infiltrate the Dems with progressive candidates to sieze power from the establishment Dems, and IT WORKS.
But assholes like you are so insanely short sighted, and care so little about marginalized people, that everyone was an acceptable casualty to your lack of foresight and patience. And now we’re here.
No, we simply did and are telling you the reality of the situation.
Its laughable you would EVER accuse anyone else of unrealistic expectations when you’ve demonstrated a complete divorce from the reality of the US election system and context to the 2024 election.
No, but you can certainly influence the electorate with everything from canvassing, to donating to candidates, to becoming a poll worker, to even just not spewing far-right infiltration propaganda to other leftists that convinces them to not vote, or to vote against their own interests like in a non-viable 3rd party.
Again, rich coming from the dipshit who thinks we ever had a chance to force the DNC to host a primary in July of 2024 and get an anti-genocide candidate in front of Kamala and win that ticket. Because that’s what would need to have happened for your dumbass arguments to work.
My fucking dude, you dumb fucks didn’t show up for Kamala. She lost due to a lack of votes. There was a lack of votes because of defeatist assholes like you prioritizing your fucking egos over what is objectively the only viable option against fascism.
You’re also so insanely delusional, you keep pinning the actions of the DNC onto leftists who were smart enough to see this.
Time to take the meds from the nurse.
Because a lack of voter turnout to stop the fascists, heavily motivated by dumbfucks like you who think withholding the vote would magically change Kamala’s mind or guarantee a better candidate for 2028 or something.
IT DIDN’T WORK IN 2016, IT WASNT GONNA WORK IN 2024. AND WE TOLD YOU IDIOTS THAT.
The complete total lack of self awareness and self reflection from you is on a new level that only exists under Trump and his supporters.
Hey dumbfuck, go vote for the DNC candidate in your area regardless if they’re an Israeli puppet or not. I plainly explained why that’s important. All you did was verbally ball up your feces and chew on it in front of everyone on Lemmy. Good job.
I am really deeply convinced most of the people who make comments like that online are right wing trolls, because there’s pretty much no better advertisement for the Republican party at this point than pretending like there’s a sizable group of people who actually liked the Biden administration. Like even if you are a Joe Biden superfan, you’ve gotta understand he got rejected in 2024 and there’s zero point now in trying to rehabilitate his brand. Telling everyone how great Newsome is I would understand (though obviously disagree with), but simping for Biden at this point? Doesn’t make any sense unless you’re trying to piss off progressive voters.
Or, you know, not voting against the guy who told us he was going to be a dictator who wants to nuke Gaza and turn it into a resort was a stupid choice.
Neither viable option promised good things for Gaza, but one promised bad things. The fact that people can’t understand that is why we’re in this mess.
At least there was a chance that Harris was bullshitting to get funding for a last minute campaign against a guy baked by multiple billionaires. She was the one in the Biden administration pushing for the investigation required to stop arming Israel.
Trump just wants to cause pain because he gets off on it.
That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Two genocides is worse than one.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
It seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the US election system works. Go read up on it.
Wrong.
Yes, you are.
Not.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle. You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.