You won’t be banned unless you stir shit. We still get liberals on our articles because being wrong doesn’t get you banned here, being obnoxious does.
Are you willing to be infested by the vast majority in your area that think you tankies are batshit crazy? 👀
I would think the majority of our users have enough self esteem to not give a shit about the opinions of those who have done no investigation on any topic besides reading reddit memes or western news.
Wonder what the Chinese are able to read, when my wife was in Shanghai as layover before going back to Indonesia, she couldn’t use any western app. Even had to use WeChat.
When she tried to use VPN, her phone was useless for the whole time. Luckily she had 2 phones with her.
You can just get an e-sim before you go to China. And some VPNs do work. Also, what’s wrong with using WeChat? Everyone who has done their research before going to China knows that it makes things infinitely more convenient. When in Rome…
As for western apps being blocked, that’s not “dystopian”, it’s just a consequence of them refusing to follow Chinese law. There are still western apps that work, namely those that abide by Chinese law, such as the requirement to store Chinese user data on Chinese servers.
It seems to me that that is a common-sense requirement. I don’t want my data being owned by the US, yet because my own country does not have digital sovereignty like China and we have no alternatives to US apps, i have to live with that. I wish my government was more like China’s.
What China did is nothing unusual, they employed a type of protectionist measure to encourage the growth of their own domestic alternatives. This is a common thing for countries to do in industry, China just did it in the digital space. And it greatly paid off.
From some quick research: Telegram, Skype, WhatsApp, Signal, Yahoo!, Bing, Trip .com, Booking .com, all work in China for example. Waze probably works. A lot of the smaller ones do, it’s just the big ones that a) refuse to abide by Chinese laws, and b) would compete with the market share of domestic Chinese alternatives that are blocked.
By the way, if independent app developers want to launch apps in China it is possible to do so, they just need to go through the proper process: https://daxueconsulting.com/china-app-market/
And besides that, what’s wrong with using Chinese apps when you’re in China? Many of the big ones like WeChat and Didi apparently have a translation feature these days, so that you don’t even need to learn any Chinese (although it’s considered polite to learn at least a bit of the language of a country you go to visit… frankly i think it’s rude for native English speakers to expect everyone to speak English wherever you go)
WhatsApp doesn’t work in Shanghai, we had to use WeChat. Her emails also only went through after she left china. So Gmail is also blocked.
I’m not a native English speaker. I don’t feel comfortable using a language that I don’t control. Obviously I’m more comfortable with Dutch and English because then I can truly communicate how I want. Just far higher quality.
My wife has been learning Dutch for a year now, doing classes and has received her integration certificate quite quickly.
She still hasn’t spoken a word Dutch to anyone here in flanders. She doesn’t like how she sounds in Dutch. She’s embarrassed. So we talk in English all the time.
I don’t expect everyone to speak English, but it would be very useful for there to be one global language. English has the most non-native speakers globally.
Edit: your article states that foreign apps need to apply the great firewall of china.
I’m getting this feeling that china really wants all the information on their citizens.
Social media like lemmy is the way to go imo. No country owns the data.
Gmail is of course not accessible because Google is blocked due to refusing to abide by Chinese laws.
She’s embarrassed. So we talk in English all the time.
Nobody is going to stop you from speaking whatever language you want when you go to China. All i was saying is that you shouldn’t go to foreign countries expecting everyone to speak English. This is not exclusive to China.
I don’t expect everyone to speak English, but it would be very useful for there to be one global language.
But why does the West get to decide what that language is? Why shouldn’t, say, Spanish or Chinese, both of which have more native speakers, be the global language instead?
I’m getting this feeling that china really wants all the information on their citizens.
And the US doesn’t? Were you not paying attention to Snowden’s NSA leaks? Are you not aware that all US tech companies, especially the likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, etc. collaborate with the US government and it’s intelligence agencies?
What China is primarily interested in is its national stability and the security of their citizens. They are not going to open the door to massive psychological manipulation campaigns by foreign governments, or hand over their citizens’ data to US companies which may just as well be extensions of the intelligence agencies.
Just like the US isn’t happy with TikTok being so popular in the US (despite the fact that, unlike Google and co. in China, TikTok actually does abide by US law and even stores US data on US servers) and have been trying to ban it or fully control it.
Cierto, pero si van a propagar el idioma debido a que mucha gente lo habla, no estarán difundiendo el español de España. Será más bien algún dialecto latino (que si no lo sabías, es bastante más diferente que el inglés estadounidense es contra el inglés de Inglaterra)
when my wife was in Shanghai as layover before going back to Indonesia, she couldn’t use any western app
I used to think this was bad until recently we found out that the country I live in has its government data stored in American servers which could in theory be accessed by the Trump admin. Then I also realised that the entire continents IT infrastructure is hopelessly dependent on America, meaning we have no digital sovereignty and the Americans can spy on our data (which the NSA did, as was revealed in the Snowden leaks).
Imagine protecting your IT industries from international competition so you can develop digital sovereignty. Couldn’t be us (Literally, we are fucked here).
But you cannot deny that aiming at blocking VPNs is quite dystopian.
My only contact with Chinese people is buying their products. A shame, because they are 1,4 billion people that could impact the globe with their ideas.
Most rational people can and should argue that it’s not dystopian to block out trash and garbage. The real dystopia is having a global dictatorship that provides funding, support, weapons, and government mouthpieces that drowns out actual truth in a tsunami of horseshit, to psychologically abuse and gaslight the vast majority of a planet’s population. Especially when that nation has practically the entire world in a choking vice grip, and has done almost nothing beneficial for humanity, at least not without strings attached, and has invaded, sanctioned, couped and stalled human societal progress for centuries, and has the fucking gall to think of itself as the shining city on a hill, while completely misunderstanding the original meaning behind that phrase.
I’d fucking block all western webcrap in my country if I could. Wait, my country is already doing that. And it’s doing wonders to our society. Our infospace isn’t influenced by imperialist astroturfing (as much)
But you cannot deny that aiming at blocking VPNs is quite dystopian.
Sometimes measures need to be taken that take away convenience. The Chinese do have limited access to some western sites and apps but it has had a great effect on their technological and economical sovereignty and independence. Chinese platforms are thriving. The Chinese are actually in control of their own data. Can the same be said about our governments where we face a “vendor lock” by FANGAM which have their claws over our data?
It has also kept them away from toxic anti-China sentiment on western platforms.
My only contact with Chinese people is buying their products. A shame, because they are 1,4 billion people that could impact the globe with their ideas.
That’s strange because there are Wechat, Weibo, Xiaohongshu, BiliBili and other Chinese platforms. If you really wanted to socialise with Chinese people you’d already be on one of those platforms and not writing such a cynic complaint. Still, I’ll assume good faith and recommend you to check out these platforms for yourself. Registering an account on XHS is very easy and it is definitely worth it. :)
Those platforms will be filled with mandarin instead of English.
If you consider this a problem, do you also believe that everyone should abandon their own language for English? Translation tools are available nowadays and their accuracy has increased a lot in recent years, so there is no need to use an intermediary language.
They need a global social media where they speak a language that people outside of their country understand.
XHS has a lot of content in different languages if that is what you seek. Otherwise, translation tools do a good enough job nowadays so they don’t even need to speak another language to communicate.
If china is so strict and such a large powerful entity, then I don’t wanna be there.
Is being strict bad? If you’re not strict you can’t enforce the laws and if you can’t enforce the laws you’ll eventually end up with a society which has normalised crime and believes that they can get away with it. “Authoritarian” is a very misused word and often used in western propaganda to refer to cultures which are more collectivist and law-obedient than us. Plato in the Republic, if I recall correctly, notes that sacrifices have to be made for the sake of the many because the common good is more important than an individual’s gain, and that thought is actually embedded in the Chinese culture.
Yes, I desire English to be an official language in all of the EU countries. We need unity. I don’t care what happens outside of the EU.
But I only met my wife outside of my continent because she spoke English. Communication connects people.
I’ll look up XHS, thanks. Edit: the translate button next to every comment/post is really nice
Being strict is not how I’m going to handle my life. Now that I need to guide younger employees, I’m not going to order them around. I’m just going to talk to them and try to make them understand. If they refuse, then I’ll take a step back. If shit hits the fan then I’ll offer help. When the shit is cleaned up, I’ll communicate how they can prevent the shit in the future.
My wife’s pregnant, I don’t feel like being a strict parent. I want my kid to be able to think for itself.
Authoritarianism has its benefits. Singapore is very safe. The cars cannot go over the speed limit. It’s very clean. They punish you economically if you step out of line.
I do like parts of Chinese culture. Like the whole family living together. My family lives together in one home. It makes the cost of living extremely cheap.
Don’t get me wrong, usually I am the one talking good about china. Their economy boomed tremendously. Poverty went down by far.
But socially, I don’t know any Chinese person. My wife does. She’s indonesian and a lot of Chinese people are near her area where she grew up. She doesn’t like them. That’s her choice, I guess she’ll have her reasons. Mainly because she worked for Chinese owned law practices and had many Chinese clients. I’m guessing it’s just typical employee disliking their boss stuff.
Yes, I desire English to be an official language in all of the EU countries. We need unity. I don’t care what happens outside of the EU.
Isn’t it already? And where is the unity then?
But I only met my wife outside of my continent because she spoke English. Communication connects people.
You are very lucky. Communication is indeed important, and English does pragmatically help a lot with international exchanges. I only disagree with your claim that we need (only) English for that. But even so, not all content produced on a platform is meant for international consumption. So it is only natural that it will be in the language of the target audience.
I’ll look up XHS, thanks.
Hope you enjoy it :)
Being strict is not how I’m going to handle my life. Now that I need to guide younger employees, I’m not going to order them around. I’m just going to talk to them and try to make them understand. If they refuse, then I’ll take a step back. If shit hits the fan then I’ll offer help. When the shit is cleaned up, I’ll communicate how they can prevent the shit in the future.
My wife’s pregnant, I don’t feel like being a strict parent. I want my kid to be able to think for itself.
The actions of a government cannot be judged on the same basis as the actions of an individual. I agree that you should be foremost communicative and helpful as a manager, an employer, an employee, a person, a parent. But the government operates on a different level. It can’t be too lax with ensuring smooth operation of its society, economy and law enforcement. On the other hand, being too strict like some Muslim countries or the DPRK, the former due to their cultural background, the latter due to a state of belligerency with its neighbour and the constant danger of a war breaking out, is also not the ideal that governments should strive for. I’ve been to Russia and China before and spoken with people from both countries, online and offline, admirable people with great critical thinking. They don’t consider that the laws are too strict; on the other hand, they think that we in the west are strange or even funny when it comes to legislation and law enforcement.
Don’t get me wrong, usually I am the one talking good about china. Their economy boomed tremendously. Poverty went down by far.
We actually both agree in a lot of aspects. :)
She’s indonesian and a lot of Chinese people are near her area where she grew up. She doesn’t like them. That’s her choice, I guess she’ll have her reasons. Mainly because she worked for Chinese owned law practices and had many Chinese clients. I’m guessing it’s just typical employee disliking their boss stuff.
Understandable, but still one should not judge a book by its cover, or a people by speaking with a few persons.
You won’t be banned unless you stir shit. We still get liberals on our articles because being wrong doesn’t get you banned here, being obnoxious does.
I would think the majority of our users have enough self esteem to not give a shit about the opinions of those who have done no investigation on any topic besides reading reddit memes or western news.
Wonder what the Chinese are able to read, when my wife was in Shanghai as layover before going back to Indonesia, she couldn’t use any western app. Even had to use WeChat.
When she tried to use VPN, her phone was useless for the whole time. Luckily she had 2 phones with her.
You can just get an e-sim before you go to China. And some VPNs do work. Also, what’s wrong with using WeChat? Everyone who has done their research before going to China knows that it makes things infinitely more convenient. When in Rome…
As for western apps being blocked, that’s not “dystopian”, it’s just a consequence of them refusing to follow Chinese law. There are still western apps that work, namely those that abide by Chinese law, such as the requirement to store Chinese user data on Chinese servers.
It seems to me that that is a common-sense requirement. I don’t want my data being owned by the US, yet because my own country does not have digital sovereignty like China and we have no alternatives to US apps, i have to live with that. I wish my government was more like China’s.
What China did is nothing unusual, they employed a type of protectionist measure to encourage the growth of their own domestic alternatives. This is a common thing for countries to do in industry, China just did it in the digital space. And it greatly paid off.
Which western apps work in China where the majority spoken language is English?
Is Lemmy allowed in china?
From some quick research: Telegram, Skype, WhatsApp, Signal, Yahoo!, Bing, Trip .com, Booking .com, all work in China for example. Waze probably works. A lot of the smaller ones do, it’s just the big ones that a) refuse to abide by Chinese laws, and b) would compete with the market share of domestic Chinese alternatives that are blocked.
By the way, if independent app developers want to launch apps in China it is possible to do so, they just need to go through the proper process: https://daxueconsulting.com/china-app-market/
And besides that, what’s wrong with using Chinese apps when you’re in China? Many of the big ones like WeChat and Didi apparently have a translation feature these days, so that you don’t even need to learn any Chinese (although it’s considered polite to learn at least a bit of the language of a country you go to visit… frankly i think it’s rude for native English speakers to expect everyone to speak English wherever you go)
WhatsApp doesn’t work in Shanghai, we had to use WeChat. Her emails also only went through after she left china. So Gmail is also blocked.
I’m not a native English speaker. I don’t feel comfortable using a language that I don’t control. Obviously I’m more comfortable with Dutch and English because then I can truly communicate how I want. Just far higher quality.
My wife has been learning Dutch for a year now, doing classes and has received her integration certificate quite quickly.
She still hasn’t spoken a word Dutch to anyone here in flanders. She doesn’t like how she sounds in Dutch. She’s embarrassed. So we talk in English all the time.
I don’t expect everyone to speak English, but it would be very useful for there to be one global language. English has the most non-native speakers globally.
Edit: your article states that foreign apps need to apply the great firewall of china.
I’m getting this feeling that china really wants all the information on their citizens.
Social media like lemmy is the way to go imo. No country owns the data.
It is possible that WhatsApp doesn’t work in China. I only did a very brief search online to answer your previous question and some people appeared to say that they could access it without a VPN: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windscribe/comments/1cckjjt/whatsapp_works_in_china_without_a_vpn/
Gmail is of course not accessible because Google is blocked due to refusing to abide by Chinese laws.
Nobody is going to stop you from speaking whatever language you want when you go to China. All i was saying is that you shouldn’t go to foreign countries expecting everyone to speak English. This is not exclusive to China.
But why does the West get to decide what that language is? Why shouldn’t, say, Spanish or Chinese, both of which have more native speakers, be the global language instead?
And the US doesn’t? Were you not paying attention to Snowden’s NSA leaks? Are you not aware that all US tech companies, especially the likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, etc. collaborate with the US government and it’s intelligence agencies?
What China is primarily interested in is its national stability and the security of their citizens. They are not going to open the door to massive psychological manipulation campaigns by foreign governments, or hand over their citizens’ data to US companies which may just as well be extensions of the intelligence agencies.
Just like the US isn’t happy with TikTok being so popular in the US (despite the fact that, unlike Google and co. in China, TikTok actually does abide by US law and even stores US data on US servers) and have been trying to ban it or fully control it.
Spanish is a Western language of brutal colonizers
Cierto, pero si van a propagar el idioma debido a que mucha gente lo habla, no estarán difundiendo el español de España. Será más bien algún dialecto latino (que si no lo sabías, es bastante más diferente que el inglés estadounidense es contra el inglés de Inglaterra)
I used to think this was bad until recently we found out that the country I live in has its government data stored in American servers which could in theory be accessed by the Trump admin. Then I also realised that the entire continents IT infrastructure is hopelessly dependent on America, meaning we have no digital sovereignty and the Americans can spy on our data (which the NSA did, as was revealed in the Snowden leaks).
Imagine protecting your IT industries from international competition so you can develop digital sovereignty. Couldn’t be us (Literally, we are fucked here).
It’s true that it all has pros and cons.
But you cannot deny that aiming at blocking VPNs is quite dystopian.
My only contact with Chinese people is buying their products. A shame, because they are 1,4 billion people that could impact the globe with their ideas.
Most rational people can and should argue that it’s not dystopian to block out trash and garbage. The real dystopia is having a global dictatorship that provides funding, support, weapons, and government mouthpieces that drowns out actual truth in a tsunami of horseshit, to psychologically abuse and gaslight the vast majority of a planet’s population. Especially when that nation has practically the entire world in a choking vice grip, and has done almost nothing beneficial for humanity, at least not without strings attached, and has invaded, sanctioned, couped and stalled human societal progress for centuries, and has the fucking gall to think of itself as the shining city on a hill, while completely misunderstanding the original meaning behind that phrase.
It’s dystopian to think that everything outside of one country is trash and garbage.
Your subjectivity got in the way so quickly, so I can just tell you that you’re being irrational.
Globalism is the future. Social media like lemmy can help with that tremendously. Everyone is welcome. I wonder if Chinese can access it.
You’re projecting and strawmanning
Not outside, but inside. Most countries are fine, but then there is America.
I’d fucking block all western webcrap in my country if I could. Wait, my country is already doing that. And it’s doing wonders to our society. Our infospace isn’t influenced by imperialist astroturfing (as much)
Which country do you live in?
A Global South country
Yeah which one, I live in Belgium.
Sometimes measures need to be taken that take away convenience. The Chinese do have limited access to some western sites and apps but it has had a great effect on their technological and economical sovereignty and independence. Chinese platforms are thriving. The Chinese are actually in control of their own data. Can the same be said about our governments where we face a “vendor lock” by FANGAM which have their claws over our data?
It has also kept them away from toxic anti-China sentiment on western platforms.
That’s strange because there are Wechat, Weibo, Xiaohongshu, BiliBili and other Chinese platforms. If you really wanted to socialise with Chinese people you’d already be on one of those platforms and not writing such a cynic complaint. Still, I’ll assume good faith and recommend you to check out these platforms for yourself. Registering an account on XHS is very easy and it is definitely worth it. :)
Those platforms will be filled with mandarin instead of English.
They need a global social media where they speak a language that people outside of their country understand.
If china is so strict and such a large powerful entity, then I don’t wanna be there.
Singapore is authoritarian as well, but it’s a city. Can flee to Malaysia or Indonesia in a 2 hours trip.
If you consider this a problem, do you also believe that everyone should abandon their own language for English? Translation tools are available nowadays and their accuracy has increased a lot in recent years, so there is no need to use an intermediary language.
XHS has a lot of content in different languages if that is what you seek. Otherwise, translation tools do a good enough job nowadays so they don’t even need to speak another language to communicate.
Is being strict bad? If you’re not strict you can’t enforce the laws and if you can’t enforce the laws you’ll eventually end up with a society which has normalised crime and believes that they can get away with it. “Authoritarian” is a very misused word and often used in western propaganda to refer to cultures which are more collectivist and law-obedient than us. Plato in the Republic, if I recall correctly, notes that sacrifices have to be made for the sake of the many because the common good is more important than an individual’s gain, and that thought is actually embedded in the Chinese culture.
Yes, I desire English to be an official language in all of the EU countries. We need unity. I don’t care what happens outside of the EU.
But I only met my wife outside of my continent because she spoke English. Communication connects people.
I’ll look up XHS, thanks. Edit: the translate button next to every comment/post is really nice
Being strict is not how I’m going to handle my life. Now that I need to guide younger employees, I’m not going to order them around. I’m just going to talk to them and try to make them understand. If they refuse, then I’ll take a step back. If shit hits the fan then I’ll offer help. When the shit is cleaned up, I’ll communicate how they can prevent the shit in the future.
My wife’s pregnant, I don’t feel like being a strict parent. I want my kid to be able to think for itself.
Authoritarianism has its benefits. Singapore is very safe. The cars cannot go over the speed limit. It’s very clean. They punish you economically if you step out of line.
I do like parts of Chinese culture. Like the whole family living together. My family lives together in one home. It makes the cost of living extremely cheap.
Don’t get me wrong, usually I am the one talking good about china. Their economy boomed tremendously. Poverty went down by far.
But socially, I don’t know any Chinese person. My wife does. She’s indonesian and a lot of Chinese people are near her area where she grew up. She doesn’t like them. That’s her choice, I guess she’ll have her reasons. Mainly because she worked for Chinese owned law practices and had many Chinese clients. I’m guessing it’s just typical employee disliking their boss stuff.
Isn’t it already? And where is the unity then?
You are very lucky. Communication is indeed important, and English does pragmatically help a lot with international exchanges. I only disagree with your claim that we need (only) English for that. But even so, not all content produced on a platform is meant for international consumption. So it is only natural that it will be in the language of the target audience.
Hope you enjoy it :)
The actions of a government cannot be judged on the same basis as the actions of an individual. I agree that you should be foremost communicative and helpful as a manager, an employer, an employee, a person, a parent. But the government operates on a different level. It can’t be too lax with ensuring smooth operation of its society, economy and law enforcement. On the other hand, being too strict like some Muslim countries or the DPRK, the former due to their cultural background, the latter due to a state of belligerency with its neighbour and the constant danger of a war breaking out, is also not the ideal that governments should strive for. I’ve been to Russia and China before and spoken with people from both countries, online and offline, admirable people with great critical thinking. They don’t consider that the laws are too strict; on the other hand, they think that we in the west are strange or even funny when it comes to legislation and law enforcement.
We actually both agree in a lot of aspects. :)
Understandable, but still one should not judge a book by its cover, or a people by speaking with a few persons.