I know the current state of politics has got everyone assuming the worst. Let’s just start over. Hello, I am a Marxist that occasionally votes Democrat because it is better than the alternative. You?
I would do what I currently do. Get out, protest, educate people about how their vote will affect their lives. I live in Los Angeles, and as many know its an insane battle here. The voter packet is thick as a brick. I’ve been walking people through where to vote and how to get there, even paying to help people get there. This election will affect many unhoused people. What are you doing? Because just voting blue isn’t it, my friend.
Good, that’s all great ways to engage. I’m doing all I can, too, albeit less than that because I’m not physically able. I’m encouraging others to do those things, and I’m arguing with centrists and political nihilists where i can.
We need optimism right now, not pessimism, though. Don’t undermine your physical efforts by pushing pessimism online. Really not sure why you’re doing that.
I get that things feel bad. But don’t spread the bad, I say.
Don’t undermine your physical efforts by pushing pessimism online.
Pointing out shitty things Democrats have done and holding them to account for their votes and actions is not advocating for fascism. Jesus, you guys are so damn fragile about this. This is such a huge part of why they have no incentive to actually improve. Schumer and crew know they can make bank doing what AIPAC and other lobbyist groups ask, and there will always be someone to jump up at the sign of the mildest of criticism, like saying he has been ineffective in using the power of his office to do anything other than advance the interests of Israel, and you’re ready to tear people to bits over supporting fascism just because they won’t disavow the facts they’ve seen with their very eyes.
If you think people pointing out Dems are still helping the GOP with votes for things like prolonging the illegal war in Iran, financing genocide in Gaza, or failing to speak out when their colleagues are the victims of harassment and racism from Trump and the GOP is going to depress voter turnout for them, maybe channel that effort into writing them and telling them to knock that stuff off or risk being removed from their office, rather than getting mad at the person who is literally just reporting on the actions, or conspicuous inaction, of public figures. Your politicians are ultimately responsible for their votes and actions, and those two things are supposed to help inform voters as to a politician’s values, so they can make informed choices when the time does come to vote.
Keep reading this thread. My point is not that we shouldn’t point these things out. We absolutely should, and often, and most of the time.
My point is that belongs in the primaries and the rest of the year, not when we have legally narrowed options. Doing this now can only help the fascists.
There’s a lot of time to argue these nuances, but within days of a general is not that time.
There’s a lot of time to argue these nuances, but within days of X is not that time.
This is my issue, because it always changes, hence the X I put there. When we had the presidential elections, it wasn’t the time, it was just too important and we needed to wait for the primaries. Primaries came here, and I was told it was a time for unity, and there were too many DSA-backed candidates (good), so it wasn’t the time for criticism, we needed to circle the wagons and make sure we get a nice, safe Democrat elected. Now it’s the mid-terms coming up, and it’s the same thing. There is never an appropriate time to criticize the Party where there won’t be some excuse.
Curiously, this courtesy seems only to be demanded from the left wings of the voter base towards the center, but not the other way around. During primaries and local elections, there was no call for other Democratic candidates to stop slandering Mamdani as anti-Semitic and accusing people supporting fascism by discouraging someone for voting for a Democrat, or when the rest of the party was dragging their feet on endorsing him when the actual elections were looming. As pointed out, Schumer is notably silent regarding Trump sending his goon squad to raid Ilhan Omar’s house.
The DNC and its base stifle criticism at every opportunity, but demand the unqualified right to sling mud whenever they feel like, even towards candidates who are nominally members of the same party. This is just one of their strategies to try and shut down a left-wing takeover analogous to the Tea Party taking over the GOP not too long ago, and make sure that the current elected Democrats people are unhappy with are shielded from the consequences of their votes. Trying to silence people who point out the bad things Democrats do, even if they qualify it by saying they will still vote Democrat for the lesser option of two evils come election day, is just an incredibly dishonest way to build your base. You’re just asking for people to become disillusioned when you tell them “Well, this time it will be different, we wrote Chuck a stern letter asking him to tone down his outspoken support for financing war crimes with your tax dollars,” and he gets back in and keeps doing the same exact thing.
How do you expect people will believe the party has any integrity at all when people are brow beat with accusations of supporting fascism or being a Russian shill for pointing out things like Chuck Schumer using his position to help maintain policies that are increasingly unpopular with the voting public, like Chuck viewing the point of his job as watching out for Israel and making sure the Democrats never stop supporting them? I mean, he’s not even up for election this time around! And when his term does come up, it will be a primary that is too important for criticism, we have to kowtow to Chuck, lest some “unelectable” candidate who says “I won’t give Israel carte blanche if elected” manages to win the primary and advance to the general elections.
I’m not talking about a nebulous amount of time, I mean like within one month. I’m happy to put a limit on it. I could even be talked down to 2 weeks. I usually don’t even mention this, because unless it’s within a few days of the window, I don’t care. But now we’re in that window.
I’m not demanding this of left wingers, nor of anyone. Right wingers surely won’t listen to me of all people, and they’re a lost cause regardless. I am talking to my own ‘side’, I guess. I’m saying we should stop attacking one another for a minute if we actually want progress.
Being picky about who represents us is never pessimistic. Its our civic duty. When I say dems are pub-lite, its because most of them are. We deserve people who really differ from that conservative poison, not people who just pose. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I’ve been around long enough to know that the bandaid ain’t the solution.
Why are you trying to push both sides bullshit if you’re not a centrist?
No apologies, you’re the one being ridiculous here.
How do you think we should fix things, senpai?
I know the current state of politics has got everyone assuming the worst. Let’s just start over. Hello, I am a Marxist that occasionally votes Democrat because it is better than the alternative. You?
I’m not sure you do understand. If you did, you wouldn’t be discouraging people. That’s how fascism takes us.
So you’re right, let’s start over.
What specifically would you do right now, in this climate, to fix things? Given that being negative online only helps fascists?
I would do what I currently do. Get out, protest, educate people about how their vote will affect their lives. I live in Los Angeles, and as many know its an insane battle here. The voter packet is thick as a brick. I’ve been walking people through where to vote and how to get there, even paying to help people get there. This election will affect many unhoused people. What are you doing? Because just voting blue isn’t it, my friend.
Good, that’s all great ways to engage. I’m doing all I can, too, albeit less than that because I’m not physically able. I’m encouraging others to do those things, and I’m arguing with centrists and political nihilists where i can.
We need optimism right now, not pessimism, though. Don’t undermine your physical efforts by pushing pessimism online. Really not sure why you’re doing that.
I get that things feel bad. But don’t spread the bad, I say.
Pointing out shitty things Democrats have done and holding them to account for their votes and actions is not advocating for fascism. Jesus, you guys are so damn fragile about this. This is such a huge part of why they have no incentive to actually improve. Schumer and crew know they can make bank doing what AIPAC and other lobbyist groups ask, and there will always be someone to jump up at the sign of the mildest of criticism, like saying he has been ineffective in using the power of his office to do anything other than advance the interests of Israel, and you’re ready to tear people to bits over supporting fascism just because they won’t disavow the facts they’ve seen with their very eyes.
If you think people pointing out Dems are still helping the GOP with votes for things like prolonging the illegal war in Iran, financing genocide in Gaza, or failing to speak out when their colleagues are the victims of harassment and racism from Trump and the GOP is going to depress voter turnout for them, maybe channel that effort into writing them and telling them to knock that stuff off or risk being removed from their office, rather than getting mad at the person who is literally just reporting on the actions, or conspicuous inaction, of public figures. Your politicians are ultimately responsible for their votes and actions, and those two things are supposed to help inform voters as to a politician’s values, so they can make informed choices when the time does come to vote.
Keep reading this thread. My point is not that we shouldn’t point these things out. We absolutely should, and often, and most of the time.
My point is that belongs in the primaries and the rest of the year, not when we have legally narrowed options. Doing this now can only help the fascists.
There’s a lot of time to argue these nuances, but within days of a general is not that time.
This is my issue, because it always changes, hence the X I put there. When we had the presidential elections, it wasn’t the time, it was just too important and we needed to wait for the primaries. Primaries came here, and I was told it was a time for unity, and there were too many DSA-backed candidates (good), so it wasn’t the time for criticism, we needed to circle the wagons and make sure we get a nice, safe Democrat elected. Now it’s the mid-terms coming up, and it’s the same thing. There is never an appropriate time to criticize the Party where there won’t be some excuse.
Curiously, this courtesy seems only to be demanded from the left wings of the voter base towards the center, but not the other way around. During primaries and local elections, there was no call for other Democratic candidates to stop slandering Mamdani as anti-Semitic and accusing people supporting fascism by discouraging someone for voting for a Democrat, or when the rest of the party was dragging their feet on endorsing him when the actual elections were looming. As pointed out, Schumer is notably silent regarding Trump sending his goon squad to raid Ilhan Omar’s house.
The DNC and its base stifle criticism at every opportunity, but demand the unqualified right to sling mud whenever they feel like, even towards candidates who are nominally members of the same party. This is just one of their strategies to try and shut down a left-wing takeover analogous to the Tea Party taking over the GOP not too long ago, and make sure that the current elected Democrats people are unhappy with are shielded from the consequences of their votes. Trying to silence people who point out the bad things Democrats do, even if they qualify it by saying they will still vote Democrat for the lesser option of two evils come election day, is just an incredibly dishonest way to build your base. You’re just asking for people to become disillusioned when you tell them “Well, this time it will be different, we wrote Chuck a stern letter asking him to tone down his outspoken support for financing war crimes with your tax dollars,” and he gets back in and keeps doing the same exact thing.
How do you expect people will believe the party has any integrity at all when people are brow beat with accusations of supporting fascism or being a Russian shill for pointing out things like Chuck Schumer using his position to help maintain policies that are increasingly unpopular with the voting public, like Chuck viewing the point of his job as watching out for Israel and making sure the Democrats never stop supporting them? I mean, he’s not even up for election this time around! And when his term does come up, it will be a primary that is too important for criticism, we have to kowtow to Chuck, lest some “unelectable” candidate who says “I won’t give Israel carte blanche if elected” manages to win the primary and advance to the general elections.
I’m not talking about a nebulous amount of time, I mean like within one month. I’m happy to put a limit on it. I could even be talked down to 2 weeks. I usually don’t even mention this, because unless it’s within a few days of the window, I don’t care. But now we’re in that window.
I’m not demanding this of left wingers, nor of anyone. Right wingers surely won’t listen to me of all people, and they’re a lost cause regardless. I am talking to my own ‘side’, I guess. I’m saying we should stop attacking one another for a minute if we actually want progress.
But by all means, continue.
Being picky about who represents us is never pessimistic. Its our civic duty. When I say dems are pub-lite, its because most of them are. We deserve people who really differ from that conservative poison, not people who just pose. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I’ve been around long enough to know that the bandaid ain’t the solution.
Yes, and we should be picky as fuck during the primaries. Now we’re past that, and these are the candidates we have.
Primaries are where we do that sort of infighting. Now, in the generals, we need to circle the wagons.
I hope you brought your vitriol to the primaries, because that’s where it belongs, not here.
Aight bro. Rest assured I always bring it. Wishing us the best, because we are likely on the same side here. Despite the voting. Lol. Peace.
I appreciate your passion. Peace.