Who cares about all the people he’ll hurt along the way amiright? ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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    4 days ago

    No, funding absolutely does, but your list didn’t include funding anything.

    Abolishing USAID (funding), destroying long-standing defensive alliances with democratic countries (funding), revoking funding for numerous scientific studies and projects (including medical and climate change projects which would have resulted in worldwide harm reduction from serious ongoing issues) (explicitly funding), starting a new arms race wherein not only have numerous countries signaled a desire to increase defense spending but also a widespread desire to acquire nuclear arms now that open imperialism is back in vogue (causing by revocation of funding), support for Israeli attacks in the West Bank (a line even the fucking Bush admin wouldn’t cross) (funding), support of far-right parties and cultural movements in other countries (including fascists like the recently chastised Le Pen) (funding)

    You uh

    you sure about that

    Yes, exactly that democratic West. Trump is a hindrance for the European far-right, not a boon.

    That seems an extremely curious conclusion to reach considering the surge in support for the far-right since the start of this year. One might even suspect it of being motivated reasoning.

    Again, that massive death toll is mostly American aid being pulled so it shouldn’t increase much until he starts a war somewhere.

    … do you think that the death toll won’t increase until he starts a war?

    It’ll increase with whatever the next fascist fuckwit policy is, and the administration is far from finished. Like holy shit, c’mon. Three months is not the end of the fucking race. We have, at minimum, another 45 fucking months of new and exciting fascist policies which will kill people.

    Yes, this is exactly the business as usual that America losing clout with the NATO-aligned West is going to reduce.

    Jesus fucking Christ.

    Israel can only act with impunity because Europe won’t challenge it,

    Oh yes, as we all know, there are no other genocidal hypermilitarized states in the world that Europe doesn’t challenge. Europe, happily, is out there playing world police for any state that isn’t protected by the US.

    again because of American influence (otherwise Europe has literally nothing to gain out of supporting Israel).

    Europe also has nothing to gain out of supporting Russia, yet there remains significant demographics which are full-throated in their support for Russia.

    Maybe reducing everything to materialist analysis is incredibly fucking blinkered?

    Remember that Israel’s largest trading partner is the EU, not America.

    “Europe no longer likes us :(” won’t stop them, but European sanctions might.

    Okay? So is Europe willing to hurt itself economically to punish Israel and the US? Europe’s morals are, of course, super strong; that’s why we go for an idealist analysis for Europe but a materialist analysis for everywhere else in the world? I’m sure European countries aren’t struggling with far-right agitation on both cultural and economic grounds.

    Yes, but its imperialism in terms of area and impact exploded during and after the cold war.

    “and after the Cold War”

    are you fucking stupid.

    As opposed to all other US administrations since Reagan who have materially opposed or punished Israel for murdering US citizens and journalists or selling US military secrets to whoever the fuck they feel like it? Again, this is business as usual.

    I love that I can demonstrate the Trump regime going above and beyond on Israel and your response is still a “It’s business as usual!”

    Whatever, man. If you’re so fucking desperate to critically deepthroat fascism in the hopes that the American Empire will be the pure evil regime you so desire it to be (obviously, no one would side with a powerful and self-interested genocidal regime, like China or Russia or the Saudis, so when it happens to the US, everything will finally be okay in world politics 😊), far be it from me to stop you.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      4 days ago

      You uh

      you sure about that

      Yes? Your list included cutting funding, but I’m not seeing anyone being funded here other than Israel (business as usual). Well you also mention the European far-right, but while I don’t know much about their relationship with MAGA other than that it exists I doubt National Rally or AfD are getting American tax money.

      That seems an extremely curious conclusion to reach considering the surge in support for the far-right since the start of this year. One might even suspect it of being motivated reasoning.

      Huh? What surge? I could be missing something, but I’ve only heard of European far-right parties trying to distance themselves from Trump and the Trump rampage losing Canada’s Conservatives a near-guaranteed majority.

      It’ll increase with whatever the next fascist fuckwit policy is, and the administration is far from finished. Like holy shit, c’mon. Three months is not the end of the fucking race. We have, at minimum, another 45 fucking months of new and exciting fascist policies which will kill people.

      Yeah probably, but how is he going to kill more on-Americans than he already did and is by cutting foreign aid? There’s only so much you can do to kill people outside your country without going to war.

      Oh yes, as we all know, there are no other genocidal hypermilitarized states in the world that Europe doesn’t challenge. Europe, happily, is out there playing world police for any state that isn’t protected by the US.

      I can’t think of any genocidal hypermilitarized state that Europe isn’t at odds with other than Israel. However, even if there was, the Middle East is Europe’s backyard and would be their sphere of influence if it wasn’t already claimed by America, so they want it to be stable because when it’s not stable refugees flood Europe. Well, more accurately Europe feels like it’s being flooded with immigrants but that’s neither here nor there.

      “and after the Cold War”

      are you fucking stupid.

      Something something war on terror.

      I love that I can demonstrate the Trump regime going above and beyond on Israel and your response is still a “It’s business as usual!”

      He goes above and beyond on Israel rhetoric, and frankly neither I nor anybody else give a shit about what the US government has to say about Israel. Call me when he actually does something more than what Biden already did.

      (obviously, no one would side with a powerful and self-interested genocidal regime, like China or Russia or the Saudis, so when it happens to the US, everything will finally be okay in world politics 😊), far be it from me to stop you.

      I mean, plenty of people would side with a powerful and self-interested genocidal regime, but fortunately Trump has made it a point to actively antagonize his closest and most powerful allies so there’s not much reason to worry about that possibility. No ally Trump can possibly make would make up for the hole left by Europe and Canada.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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        4 days ago

        Yes? Your list included cutting funding, but I’m not seeing anyone being funded here other than Israel (business as usual). Well you also mention the European far-right, but I don’t know much about their relationship with MAGA other than that it exists I doubt National Rally or AfD are getting American tax money.

        So if you cut funding to exercise imperialist aims, it’s not imperialism. Great. Fucking fantastic. Only increasing funding counts. Like some sort of fucked up court of law insisting on some loophole.

        Huh? What surge? I could be missing something, but I’ve only heard of European far-right parties trying to distance themselves from Trump and the Trump rampage losing Canada’s Conservatives a near-guaranteed majority.

        Are you not paying attention at all

        https://europeannewsroom.com/far-right-rise-what-does-the-extremist-surge-mean-for-the-eu

        Yeah probably, but how is he going to kill more on-Americans than he already did and is by cutting foreign aid? There’s only so much you can do to kill people outside your country without going to war.

        Jesus fucking Christ, do you have no conception of how powerful countries interact with others on the international stage? Starvation by sanctions, revocation of medical cooperation, blocking international orgs, financial sabotage, coups, intelligence sharing or restriction, propaganda and outright support of fascist factions in democratic nations, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

        Funny how you have a full understanding of the myriad ways which America enables Israel, outside of just funding, and then completely fucking forget about it when considering what America could offer to other genocidal states. Jesus fucking Christ.

        I can’t think of any genocidal hypermilitarized state that Europe isn’t at odds with other than Israel.

        “At odds with”

        You uh, wanna remind me what genocidal hypermilitarized state Europe is meaningfully challenging?

        However, even if there was, the Middle East is Europe’s backyard and would be their sphere of influence if it wasn’t already claimed by America, so they want it to be stable because when it’s not stable refugees flood Europe. Well, more accurately Europe feels like it’s being flooded with immigrants but that’s neither here nor there.

        Oh, great, wherein even the supposed leftists are parroting great power politics. Jesus fucking Christ.

        Something something war on terror.

        ‘Something something’ is fucking right. If you think the war on terror compares to even a single decade of the Cold War, you’re out of your fucking gourd.

        He goes above and beyond on Israel rhetoric, and frankly neither I nor anybody else give a shit about what the US government has to say about Israel. Call me when he actually does something more than what Biden already did.

        “Rhetoric won’t influence Israeli fascism, but European rhetoric will totally reduce the effect on American fascism!”

        That being said, it’s so fucking easy Jesus Christ

        Welcome to month 3 of our 48 month fascism celebration.

        I mean, plenty of people would side with a powerful and self-interested genocidal regime, but fortunately Trump has made it a point to actively antagonize his closest and most powerful allies so there’s not much reason to worry about that possibility. No ally Trump can possibly make would make up for the hole left by Europe and Canada.

        Sure there is. Russia et co. The alignment is already moving that way. When more European countries join the far-right parade, they’ll join in too. Won’t it be wonderful?

        So glad that fascism is collapsing the “American Empire”, now we can have a truly multipolar far-right world.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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          4 days ago

          So if you cut funding to exercise imperialist aims, it’s not imperialism. Great. Fucking fantastic. Only increasing funding counts. Like some sort of fucked up court of law insisting on some loophole.

          I don’t see how refusing to pay for something is imperialism. Retracting one’s influence on other countries is literally the opposite of what the word means, whether it’s a good thing or not.

          Are you not paying attention at all

          I am, but how the heck does that have anything to do with the Trump admin? This is the continuation of a trend going back at least a decade.

          Funny how you have a full understanding of the myriad ways which America enables Israel, outside of just funding, and then completely fucking forget about it when considering what America could offer to other genocidal states. Jesus fucking Christ.

          I mean it’s funding, weapons, military support and diplomatic support. What genocidal state do you think Trump will offer these things to other than Russia (which would require Trump to make an outright enemy out of the EU)?

          If you think the war on terror compares to even a single decade of the Cold War, you’re out of your fucking gourd.

          I mean, Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Yemen? Pakistan? The cold war was pretty bad, but so was the war on terror.

          “Rhetoric won’t influence Israeli fascism, but European rhetoric will totally reduce the effect on American fascism!”

          I don’t care about European rhetoric either, but with their political stability and economic potential at stake they’re likely to not stop at rhetoric. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

          That being said, it’s so fucking easy Jesus Christ

          Okay that is ever so slightly worse than just rhetoric.

          Sure there is. Russia et co. The alignment is already moving that way. When more European countries join the far-right parade, they’ll join in too. Won’t it be wonderful?

          Oh, I guess I was implicitly assuming Europe wouldn’t turn far-right, which is completely unfounded. If that happens then I’ll take back everything I said.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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            4 days ago

            I don’t see how refusing to pay for something is imperialism. Retracting one’s influence on other countries is literally the opposite of what the word means, whether it’s a good thing or not.

            Imperialism is the use of one’s power to exert unilateral control over other countries. Funding and defunding are both ways to unilaterally exert control over other countries. Defunding countries which are defending themselves from imperialism in the hopes of the imperialist aggressor achieving their aims is absolutely imperialism or support for imperialism.

            I am, but how the heck does that have anything to do with the Trump admin? This is the continuation of a trend going back at least a decade.

            The surge this year, then, being…?

            I mean it’s funding, weapons, military support and diplomatic support. What genocidal state do you think Trump will offer these things to other than Russia (which would require Trump to make an outright enemy out of the EU)?

            … do you have any idea how many genocidal states are in existence right now?

            You talk about “The Global South”, but your focus on developed countries is… significant.

            And Trump is already making an enemy of the EU. It’s been three fucking months and our almost century-long alliance with Western Europe is in tatters.

            I mean, Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Yemen? Pakistan? The cold war was pretty bad, but so was the war on terror.

            Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia? Really? You could’ve at least picked Libya.

            In any case, you can pick any decade of the Cold War you like and I can name half a dozen US-sponsored unjustified wars and coups which led to far greater death tolls than the entire ~15 year duration of the ‘War on Terror’. As I said, any individual decade of the Cold War alone is worse than our conduct post-Cold War - and that, I may emphasize, is a low bar for the Cold War to limbo under. But it manages.

            “The Imperial Power™ is more desperate and isolated” does not have the effect you think it does.

            Oh, I guess I was implicitly assuming Europe wouldn’t turn far-right, which is completely unfounded. If that happens then I’ll take back everything I said.

            We’ve already got Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia, and Turkiye there, with the Netherlands, Italy, and Austria looking to radicalize, and the UK, France, Sweden, Belgium, and Germany all at risk.

            The dominos are set, and cheering on the one falling isn’t going to lead to the rest standing firm, in all likelihood.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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              3 days ago

              Imperialism is the use of one’s power to exert unilateral control over other countries. Funding and defunding are both ways to unilaterally exert control over other countries. Defunding countries which are defending themselves from imperialism in the hopes of the imperialist aggressor achieving their aims is absolutely imperialism or support for imperialism.

              This is the case for Ukraine and is imperialism because of the mineral deal stuff, but other foreign aid Trump cut seems to be more of a case of “fuck you I got mine” rather than trying to get exert control over anyone.

              The surge this year, then, being…?

              What surge? The article you linked doesn’t list an out of the ordinary increase this year.

              … do you have any idea how many genocidal states are in existence right now?

              Plenty, but AFAIK America has little interest in most of them.

              And Trump is already making an enemy of the EU. It’s been three fucking months and our almost century-long alliance with Western Europe is in tatters.

              He’s antagonizing them, but so far he hasn’t done anything that would cause, say, EU sanctions on America.

              Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia? Really? You could’ve at least picked Libya.

              The military intervention in Libya was separate from the war on terror to my knowledge, while the one in Somalia had the textbook war on terror motivation of “counterterrorism”. It also, in typical war on terror fashion, restarted the civil war and destroyed any hope Somalia had for stability for a generation.

              In any case, you can pick any decade of the Cold War you like and I can name half a dozen US-sponsored unjustified wars and coups which led to far greater death tolls than the entire ~15 year duration of the ‘War on Terror’. As I said, any individual decade of the Cold War alone is worse than our conduct post-Cold War - and that, I may emphasize, is a low bar for the Cold War to limbo under. But it manages.

              Okay bet. Do 1980-1989.

              We’ve already got Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia, and Turkiye there, with the Netherlands, Italy, and Austria looking to radicalize, and the UK, France, Sweden, Belgium, and Germany all at risk.

              I wouldn’t count Turkey there since their government isn’t exactly far-right, but yeah fair enough

              The dominos are set, and cheering on the one falling isn’t going to lead to the rest standing firm, in all likelihood.

              Rather than cheering I simply have very little faith in Americans’ or Europeans’ ability to resist the rise of the far-right, because, well, gestures broadly.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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                3 days ago

                This is the case for Ukraine and is imperialism because of the mineral deal stuff, but other foreign aid Trump cut seems to be more of a case of “fuck you I got mine” rather than trying to get exert control over anyone.

                His administration is quite nakedly making demands of other countries as part of ‘negotiating’ tariffs.

                Plenty, but AFAIK America has little interest in most of them.

                I can think of very few countries that America has ‘little interest’ in, and much of our ‘lack’ of interest in genocidal states is because that was, in the post-Cold War environment, bad PR.

                We now have a regime that doesn’t care about PR. In fact, bad PR is a good thing to their power base, because it ‘owns the libs’.

                Certainly, the fact that I pointed out “can offer genocidal states” necessarily, for that matter, implies that the states I’m talking about do not currently receive full US support. Do you think there’s anyone Trump wouldn’t support to have another country’s leader slobbering on his limp knob and calling him “Sir, Mr. Trump”, with tears in his eyes?

                The military intervention in Libya was separate from the war on terror to my knowledge, while the one in Somalia had the textbook war on terror motivation of “counterterrorism”.

                And you think the War on Terror in Somalia compares to how bad the Cold War was… how? Morality or intensity, I’ll accept either justification?

                Since that is the context in which your list was made and which I expressed incredulity at Somalia’s inclusion?

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                  3 days ago

                  His administration is quite nakedly making demands of other countries as part of ‘negotiating’ tariffs.

                  Are we talking about tariffs or foreign aid right now? The tariff-based negotiations are pretty nakedly imperialist, I’ll concede that. Cutting non-Ukraine foreign aid is not.

                  Do you think there’s anyone Trump wouldn’t support to have another country’s leader slobbering on his limp knob and calling him “Sir, Mr. Trump”, with tears in his eyes?

                  That’s… fair enough??? Part of me doesn’t want to believe it’ll go quite that easily, but you never know with these people.

                  And you think the War on Terror in Somalia compares to how bad the Cold War was… how? Morality or intensity, I’ll accept either justification?

                  I mean Ethiopia, backed by the US, went in and restarted an almost 20 years old civil war, causing the death of about a hundred thousand people and displacing a million (between 2006 and 2009, I can’t find numbers for post-2009 but it can’t be good). It doesn’t obviously measure up to the cold war on its own, but it’s another horrible thing caused by the war on terror.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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                    3 days ago

                    Are we talking about tariffs or foreign aid right now? The tariff-based negotiations are pretty nakedly imperialist, I’ll concede that. Cutting non-Ukraine foreign aid is not.

                    Considering that the intention in both cases is to get other actors to lick Trump’s boots, what’s the difference?

                    I mean Ethiopia, backed by the US, went in and restarted an almost 20 years old civil war, causing the death of about a hundred thousand people and displacing a million (between 2006 and 2009, I can’t find numbers for post-2009 but it can’t be good). It doesn’t obviously measure up to the cold war on its own, but it’s another horrible thing caused by the war on terror.

                    Fighting had never stopped. The idea that Ethiopia restarted the civil war is not even vaguely close to what happened.