• Deme@sopuli.xyz
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      19 days ago

      If the essay by zig which apparently started this feud is wrong on such a fundamental level and Anark is in fact against prisons (I don’t know his takes), wouldn’t the best course of action be to focus on that instead of accusing him of running a honeypot (while himself using twitter and youtube)?

      The dogwhistle seems pretty far fetched tbh. They also have this nice picture on the projects community page:

      ziq called that “evidence” AI generated copjacketing slop, and given that the site has just that one report, it doesn’t seem too credible. The list of factual errors in that report written out by ziq in the comments linked in the OP here is also quite lengthy.

      • Walters, Fern@bookwyr.me
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        19 days ago

        I surmise Anark meant to do both when citing David Ruminski article: show how ziq acts in bad faith, fundamentally deceives, and bad jackets all the time. By pointing out raddle is a “honeypot” he’s ensuring his audience and us be aware how counter-anarchist ziq is. He did both things asserting the inclusion of his essay in the library maybe a compromise in the administration. Basically, mirror theanarchistlibrary asap.

        The gay icon is quite different than Achillean or LGBTQIA+ pride flag. Pretty sure ziq means “gay” as “lame” here.

        good thing website archives exist. we can ascertain what is true and what are libels.

          • Walters, Fern@bookwyr.me
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            18 days ago

            Then where’s the “this powered by 🏳️‍⚧️ magic” icon???
            Nothing else addresses ziq’s blatant authoritarian usage of raddle. 🏳️‍⚧️ software or not, ziq usage is authoritarian.

        • Comrade_Spood@quokk.au
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          18 days ago

          This is just what the CNT-FAI did with POWs during the Spanish Civil War. Whether that is a prison, I would say, is debatable.

          • g00ber@sh.itjust.works
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            18 days ago

            The CNT-FAI having prisoners of war while under attack by fascist forces isn’t the same as making plans to build prisons in your ideal society.

            And they are still prisons, they don’t become not-prisons when anarchists build them.

            • Comrade_Spood@quokk.au
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              18 days ago

              Thats not the argument I was making. But whatever, it still seems like you are admitting there is nuance to this even if Anark is wrong. Which was at the end of the day, all I was trying to say

          • g00ber@sh.itjust.works
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            18 days ago

            Yeah I’m not debating the utility of prisons with an anark fan. It’s a direct quote and you can agree with Anark’s opinion or not, but disagreeing with it is not grounds to copjacket people using AI slop.

          • Deme@sopuli.xyz
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            18 days ago

            Yeah a prison with a focus on rehabilitation is still a prison. Nordic prisons sure are nicer than american ones for example, but they’re still prisons and to not call them that is just silly. In the video the only difference to a nordic prison is that it’s managed by a smaller scale community.

            • Walters, Fern@bookwyr.me
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              18 days ago

              prison with a focus on rehabilitation is still a prison

              anark: all laws and enumerated measures for reparations and rehabilitation not expressed in the constitution would be outlined. […] Justice: repairing the wrongs that have been done and preventing further ones from being committed

              The distinction anark argues is that there are outliers that wish injustice that do not desire to reparate & rehabilitate, what would be the corrective action to take? Compost, servitute, banishment?

              Reparations centers are not prisons. Contemporary correctional facilities are slave plantations. So how do we move from private prisons to correcting behavior?

              • Deme@sopuli.xyz
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                18 days ago

                The distinction anark argues is that there are outliers that wish injustice that do not desire to reparate & rehabilitate, what would be the corrective action to take? Compost, servitute, banishment?

                And does he propose something that doesn’t involve locking people up? I’ll note that plenty of indigenous peoples managed just fine without prisons before colonialism showed up.

                By the definition of “prison” you’re using, even rehabilitative facilities like nordic prisons wouldn’t be called prisons. It’s a bad definition. I prefer this one:

                a place of confinement especially for lawbreakers

                specifically : an institution (such as one under state jurisdiction) for confinement of persons convicted of serious crimes

                Anyways, the semantics are irrelevant if we focus on those outliers you mention, since reparation and rehabilitation would be out of the picture.

                • Walters, Fern@bookwyr.me
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                  18 days ago

                  And does he propose something that doesn’t involve locking people up?

                  He does… we both outlined some examples…. I am asking you what corrective course do you think might work better.

                  indigenous peoples managed just fine without prisons before colonialism showed up.

                  ahistorical assertion.

                  a place of confinement especially for lawbreakers
                  specifically : an institution (such as one under state jurisdiction) for confinement of persons convicted of serious crimes

                  By these definitions, bedrooms and closets constitute as prisons, when timing out/disciplining children. I am unsure how else do you see corrective justice¹ could take place. Wrong doings should be corrected, or not?

                  ¹Anark’s definition.

                  • Deme@sopuli.xyz
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                    18 days ago

                    He does… we both outlined some examples…. I am asking you what corrective course do you think might work better.

                    The solution he proposes involves locking “sequestered citizens” up in “monitored democratic rehabilitation communities with required rehabilitative measures” in the case of the worst crimes. That’s a prison. I’m not going to prescribe a solution to a situation that I have no part in. I think the community in question should decide to handle wrongdoers how they see fit on a case by case basis.

                    ahistorical assertion.

                    I didn’t say all of them, I said plenty of…. A couple of examples from Australia and Nigeria.

                    By these definitions, bedrooms and closets constitute as prisons, when timing out/disciplining children

                    Do you think a bedroom or a closet is an institution? It’s only the institution surrounding it that differentiates a jail cell from (an often boringly decorated) bedroom.