"Sardex, an Italian fintech, created a mutual credit system where businesses exchange goods and services without cash.
This trust-based network has strengthened the local economy and inspired similar models across Italy."
📰 https://positivenewsfoundation.org/video/italys-fintech-innovation-transforming-business-with-sardex/ 📺 https://youtu.be/eeB2tsS6xpM
This sounds like mafia is replacing government currency with their own. How is taxation handled? Is it legal because it can’t be exchanged into EUR officially?
mafia?
- Unclear relationships and methods of accounting, especially in the context of taxes ✅
- Evading AML/CTF regulations ✅
- Taking on roles typically fulfilled by the government ✅
- in Southern Italy ✅
The mafia is still very strong in Italy.
I was gonna answer myself but I found a link for you https://valori.it/credito-10-anni-sardex-scommessa-vinta/
Btw the “mafia” thing sounds like something that someone who knows nothing about Italy would say. Most of all because thanks to the real struggle with mafia in the past we now have a lot of instruments to keep restrain them. Most of the submerged economy is made by regular companies and professionals that here and there avoid declaring their real earnings.
I still have trouble understanding what problem does Sardex solve (which is flat out a red flag in context of AML). It’s described that it allows for lending activity as well as barter. For all the talk of not being a currency it is one because that’s the only new thing that it brings to the table. You can do all of those things with bank relegated to holding cash at hand only.
And for all those dubious benefits, it certainly helps with all the pesky due diligence that a regular bank does on the behalf of the government. I wasn’t born yesterday - this is done to obfuscate anything from tax avoidance to human trafficking.
Maybe you weren’t born yesterday but you also haven’t skimmed the whole article that also talks about taxes :)
The problem that it solves is not letting the control of who to help and who not in the hands of the banks. Like any good community currency it gives the possibility to make some debt without issues, thanks to the community trust among members
It’s not that easy to have money from the bank without warranties here. They are not gonna lend money thinking “oh yes it’s even better if you cannot guarantee anything so we can make you homeless” because here in Italy they cannot do infinite shit lol (sorry for the phrasing I could write this better prob)
Who in this financial setup is legally required and accountable for making sure they are paying taxes? Are they checking for sanctions? What are the consequences of not being compliant? Has anyone ever been found to be not compliant?
Has anyone ever found to be not compliant?
It is very stupid to use a centralized digital coin to avoid taxes while you can just avoid declaring what you earned when you get cash instead of digital payments
Are they checking for sanctions?
I’m not sure what this means
Who in this financial setup is legally required and accountable for making sure they are paying taxes?
In your country companies are legally required and accountable for making sure their user are paying taxes? Here they are required traceability and stuff but it’s not their job to do the guardia di finanza job.
Btw if you’d actually read the article there is a part that talks how they make everything traceable and that they also talked with the ‘‘agenzia delle entrate’’ that is the italian tax agency themselves.
Honestly i think you are just trying to confirm your biases about italy lol; this stuff has been already regulamentated for years (circuito di credito commerciale) and the only difference that sardex has with other commercial circuits is the fact that they are a fintech and it’s actually expanding thanks to the digital capabilities
If you wanna avoid taxes it is much easier to just rely on cash.
It is very stupid to use a centralized digital coin to avoid taxes while you can just avoid declaring what you earned when you get cash instead of digital payments
Does your revenue service have a way of monitoring this or would they have to verify each case manually? This is an obfuscation mechanism.
I’m not sure what this means
Are they checking if their business partners are on sanctions lists, as required by law? How many people at Sardex are hired and accountable for compliance with anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing regulations?
In your country companies are legally required and accountable for making sure their user are paying taxes? Here they are required traceability and stuff but it’s not their job to do the guardia di finanza job.
I’m not asking who’s collecting taxes but who’s making sure they’re paying taxes. In EU and most of the civilised world banks would be liable if they were aware or didn’t do enough due diligence to spot that.
This is not a bias against Italy, it’s a bias against businessmen. This happening in Sicily just makes for a funnier context.
Does your revenue service have a way of monitoring this or would they have to verify each case manually?
Alright, you keep not reading the article (it clearly says that every transaction has to emit both a fattura and a scontrino). And it’s not “my”(nor “ours”, i’m not involved) service.
This happening in Sicily
The fact that you confuse Sardegna with Sicilia shows even more that you think you know more than you actually do.
To be clear, I don’t think that’s it’s safe from every abuse but as i said for the businesses here it’s much easier to just use cash rather than trying to use digital money.
Sorry but really you are making this conversation less a conversation and more a ‘‘i am right and you have to show me i’m wrong’’; hence i’ll stop answering.
