11.2 million. That’s the number of American citizens who rank climate change as their top issue but didn’t vote in the 2024 election, according to research by the Environmental Voter Project. For context, Donald Trump won the presidency in 2024 by less than 2.3 million votes. For a little over a decade, EVP has been [...]Read More... from If So Many Americans Care About Climate, Why Don’t They Vote Like It?
I did vote so this isn’t my personal opinion. I’ve been told many times it’s “voting for the lesser of two evils, they’re both evil and I don’t agree with either.” There’s no real sense of choice. I can see it. It very much feels like that South Park episode where they have to vote for the school mascot. Do you want it to be a Giant Douche or, a Turd Sandwich? And then at the end it was all for nothing because they don’t change their mascot so it was all pointless.
Edit: you guys can call me stupid all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that I’ve heard this from coworkers and family repeatedly. I did vote. In fact, I’ve already voted in my primaries. The question was “why don’t people vote?” I gave the answer of why I personally have been told by people they don’t vote. Not liking my answer doesn’t change the reality of it. I work in blue collar work. It’s a very common view in my area. Or, they are pro Trump.
My personal opinion on why they don’t vote or, don’t vote in favor of things they support, they generally don’t want to take the time to educate themselves. And for others, they don’t want to feel responsible for voting when their candidate turns out to be nothing like they promised.
The question was “why don’t they vote like it?” I answered the question from what I’ve been told by multiple coworkers and family. I didn’t say, “this is my opinion.” In fact, I said this is not my opinion and I did vote. Just because you don’t like the answer, doesn’t mean a lot of people don’t believe that. I think it’s a terrible argument personally however, the question didn’t ask my opinion, it was asking why those people don’t vote like it. I simply shared what has been told directly to me by the people who refuse to vote.
Do they purposely fund the FASCIST’S campaigns against progressives and leftists in order to scare people into the “more electable candidate to help our slim margin”?
All the DNC bots and shills come out and scream “if you vote for what you want, it’s a vote for TRUMP”
Do they sabotage primaries when actual leftists are on the ballot? what happened with Bernie again? TWICE?
When Kamala was put in as the candidate, did we get primaries? (I will give you hers was a bit of weird situation)
Biden basically skipped a primary for his runs against Trump.
That’s a valid point too. Most of the people who have given me “both parties suck” as a reason for not voting are not exactly the type of people who care to educate themselves on politics. I used to try to teach them but, I quickly learned they don’t want to know. They just want to complain and do nothing unfortunately.
I strongly disagree. I certainly understand why this idea has risen to the forefront, but I find this mentality to be far more obtuse than attempting to flesh out the nuance of a situation. Assessing both sides of an argument is of utmost importance. Qualifying the pursuit of more accurate information as “stupid” is peak irony.
I know, the internet is full of bots and rabble rousers. No doubt they are directed at divisive issues and engage in “both sides” messaging to cast doubt on popular sentiment and advance some propaganda. This is annoying and a real problem, but the wholesale rejection of valid observation or analysis, with reactive, myopic aphorisms is precisely the type of response that allows propaganda to continue its insidious spread.
An evident tactic of propagandists is to flood the zone with emotional binaries. It seeds chaos, disrupts chain of thought, and invokes group selection posturing. I believe the “smart/dumb” binary to be one of the most powerful, and engaging with it, even if one thinks they are on the right “side”, disrupts and obfuscates the pursuit of truth.
No, it makes them sound informed. Saying that “The one party who keeps openly destroying the environment is sooooo much better than the other party who keeps openly destroying the environment” is what makes anyone who says it sound fantastically silly and at worse stupid.
There’s a very good reason for the sentiment and why people feel such a sense of dejection and apathy. Then it gets met with smug ripostes like the “bOtH sIdEs” spongetext shit or plain mockery as if it’s something that just appeared out of nowhere.
It’s just typical Democrat arrogance assuming that they are entitled to peoples votes without having to offer any material change, it also ties into why progressive and leftist candidates have to struggle to break through because they’re fighting their own party first and foremost before they even get to fighting Republicans.
Hello three day old account trying to dissuade voter turnout! If progressives and leftists voted in primaries we’d have a progressive leftist Democratic party, but progressives and leftists don’t vote for the most part. But you know that since you’re not here in good faith anyway. The phrase “typical democrat arrogance” gives you away, gotta stop using your fox news terms MAGAt.
I’ve been on Lemmy for longer than your account has existed, account age doesn’t mean anything.
trying to dissuade voter turnout
No I’m not. You’re just reading what you want to read.
If progressives and leftists voted in primaries we’d have a progressive leftist Democratic party, but progressives and leftists don’t vote for the most part.
Complete nonsense.
But you know that since you’re not here in good faith anyway.
That’s rich coming from you with this complete stinker of a comment.
The phrase “typical democrat arrogance” gives you away, gotta stop using your fox news terms MAGAt.
Yeah, I can honestly empathize with the people who believe this. Everything feels exhausting, overwhelming, and like nothing will ever change. Unfortunately for the people of that opinion though, NOT voting will ensure nothing changes. Or rather, that you had no hand in changing anything. Because everything will change eventually for good or bad.
Not even that is true. Women fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Black people fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Voting doesn’t change anything, it turns out. What changes things is when politicians writ large stand to lose something bigger than their seat, like control over society.
Can you find where in history people voted themselves out of fascism? I think there was on case in central America but they kicked out because the leader died
Voting for ‘the lesser evil’ is what continues the status quo, it keeps duopolies in power around the world, it definitely isn’t just a usa issue.
If people are willing and capable of seeing the duopoly as one entity, they realise that the duopoly never loses… that doesn’t sound very democratic, because it isn’t, duopolies are a right wing con.
Democracies have better choices, but so many countries just keep voting ‘the lesser evil’, and ‘evil’ in continuously.
I too have heard that argument but unfortunately those are usually the people who won’t see reason. I rarely try to argue with them unless they express some type of will to learn or seem like they’re questioning their beliefs. Some people just like to complain and refuse to help themselves, sad but true.
The real solution would be having more than 2 parties. I mean, TECHNICALLY we do but not really.
The real solution would be having more than 2 parties. I mean, TECHNICALLY we do but not really.
You are going to have to fundamentally change the way we vote and how we count them. In a single-choice-vote, plurality system it will mathematically trend toward having exactly two viable choices, no matter how many are allowed on the ballot.
Mixed-member proportional would probably work well for the House and Senate, and some judicial/executive positions. Where that’s not tenable (President, Governor, etc.) a Condorcet Method should be employed.
I believe the system is fundamentally broken but I still participate because you can’t fix it by doing nothing. But yes, my coworkers are not people who’s opinions will be changed by fact and reason. They’re also the same people who say, “facts don’t care about your feelings.” Imagine that. But then they get all bent out of shape about how “no one is doing anything about this!” but then refuse to vote. My guy, you’re not doing anything either!
That’s so defeatist. It makes you feel like you’re smart by saying that and thinking you’re privy to something but it’s just totally passive and does nothing. If all the people who said that actually organized and made a plan, there would be a sizable number of people who could actually make a difference.
Did you even read what I wrote? This is not my opinion, this is what I have been told. I don’t think this is correct and that these people are honestly just being lazy and don’t want to take responsibility for their vote.
No shit, my response was in reference to the people you were referring to. Did you take the “you” part as literal? I was agreeing with you. Take it down a notch with the defensiveness.
I did vote so this isn’t my personal opinion. I’ve been told many times it’s “voting for the lesser of two evils, they’re both evil and I don’t agree with either.” There’s no real sense of choice. I can see it. It very much feels like that South Park episode where they have to vote for the school mascot. Do you want it to be a Giant Douche or, a Turd Sandwich? And then at the end it was all for nothing because they don’t change their mascot so it was all pointless.
Edit: you guys can call me stupid all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that I’ve heard this from coworkers and family repeatedly. I did vote. In fact, I’ve already voted in my primaries. The question was “why don’t people vote?” I gave the answer of why I personally have been told by people they don’t vote. Not liking my answer doesn’t change the reality of it. I work in blue collar work. It’s a very common view in my area. Or, they are pro Trump.
My personal opinion on why they don’t vote or, don’t vote in favor of things they support, they generally don’t want to take the time to educate themselves. And for others, they don’t want to feel responsible for voting when their candidate turns out to be nothing like they promised.
Hey heads up the “both sides” argument makes anyone who says it sound fantastically silly and at worse stupid.
The question was “why don’t they vote like it?” I answered the question from what I’ve been told by multiple coworkers and family. I didn’t say, “this is my opinion.” In fact, I said this is not my opinion and I did vote. Just because you don’t like the answer, doesn’t mean a lot of people don’t believe that. I think it’s a terrible argument personally however, the question didn’t ask my opinion, it was asking why those people don’t vote like it. I simply shared what has been told directly to me by the people who refuse to vote.
Most people that say both side AND still vote, almost never vote in primaries. Many don’t even know what they are.
Do Democrats run fair primaries?
Do they purposely fund the FASCIST’S campaigns against progressives and leftists in order to scare people into the “more electable candidate to help our slim margin”?
All the DNC bots and shills come out and scream “if you vote for what you want, it’s a vote for TRUMP”
Do they sabotage primaries when actual leftists are on the ballot? what happened with Bernie again? TWICE?
When Kamala was put in as the candidate, did we get primaries? (I will give you hers was a bit of weird situation)
Biden basically skipped a primary for his runs against Trump.
Republicans skipped their primary for Trump.
We have a duopoly
Are you SURE that we get fair primaries?
That’s a valid point too. Most of the people who have given me “both parties suck” as a reason for not voting are not exactly the type of people who care to educate themselves on politics. I used to try to teach them but, I quickly learned they don’t want to know. They just want to complain and do nothing unfortunately.
Speaking of sounding stupid…
FTFY
I strongly disagree. I certainly understand why this idea has risen to the forefront, but I find this mentality to be far more obtuse than attempting to flesh out the nuance of a situation. Assessing both sides of an argument is of utmost importance. Qualifying the pursuit of more accurate information as “stupid” is peak irony.
I know, the internet is full of bots and rabble rousers. No doubt they are directed at divisive issues and engage in “both sides” messaging to cast doubt on popular sentiment and advance some propaganda. This is annoying and a real problem, but the wholesale rejection of valid observation or analysis, with reactive, myopic aphorisms is precisely the type of response that allows propaganda to continue its insidious spread.
An evident tactic of propagandists is to flood the zone with emotional binaries. It seeds chaos, disrupts chain of thought, and invokes group selection posturing. I believe the “smart/dumb” binary to be one of the most powerful, and engaging with it, even if one thinks they are on the right “side”, disrupts and obfuscates the pursuit of truth.
No, it makes them sound informed. Saying that “The one party who keeps openly destroying the environment is sooooo much better than the other party who keeps openly destroying the environment” is what makes anyone who says it sound fantastically silly and at worse stupid.
Wrong
Wow, what a great insite. Libs really are the intellectual powerhouse in our society!
🙄
nope
There’s a very good reason for the sentiment and why people feel such a sense of dejection and apathy. Then it gets met with smug ripostes like the “bOtH sIdEs” spongetext shit or plain mockery as if it’s something that just appeared out of nowhere.
It’s just typical Democrat arrogance assuming that they are entitled to peoples votes without having to offer any material change, it also ties into why progressive and leftist candidates have to struggle to break through because they’re fighting their own party first and foremost before they even get to fighting Republicans.
Hello three day old account trying to dissuade voter turnout! If progressives and leftists voted in primaries we’d have a progressive leftist Democratic party, but progressives and leftists don’t vote for the most part. But you know that since you’re not here in good faith anyway. The phrase “typical democrat arrogance” gives you away, gotta stop using your fox news terms MAGAt.
I’ve been on Lemmy for longer than your account has existed, account age doesn’t mean anything.
No I’m not. You’re just reading what you want to read.
Complete nonsense.
That’s rich coming from you with this complete stinker of a comment.
lol pure desperation.
Yeah, I can honestly empathize with the people who believe this. Everything feels exhausting, overwhelming, and like nothing will ever change. Unfortunately for the people of that opinion though, NOT voting will ensure nothing changes. Or rather, that you had no hand in changing anything. Because everything will change eventually for good or bad.
Not even that is true. Women fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Black people fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Voting doesn’t change anything, it turns out. What changes things is when politicians writ large stand to lose something bigger than their seat, like control over society.
Voting matters. So does fighting for rights. It’s not one or the other.
Can you find where in history people voted themselves out of fascism? I think there was on case in central America but they kicked out because the leader died
Voting for ‘the lesser evil’ is what continues the status quo, it keeps duopolies in power around the world, it definitely isn’t just a usa issue.
If people are willing and capable of seeing the duopoly as one entity, they realise that the duopoly never loses… that doesn’t sound very democratic, because it isn’t, duopolies are a right wing con.
Democracies have better choices, but so many countries just keep voting ‘the lesser evil’, and ‘evil’ in continuously.
Hello brand new account trying to discourage voting!
Why didn’t you just copy/paste your other comment about the age of my account?
I’m clearly not discouraging voting… well at least not for people who can think.
Edible funk and Pratai are the resident DNC bots that harass anyone who points out problems with the democratic party.
The history of the usa points out the problems with both parties. The usa is war on earth.
Voting for some third-party is a vote for Trump, we all know it.
I too have heard that argument but unfortunately those are usually the people who won’t see reason. I rarely try to argue with them unless they express some type of will to learn or seem like they’re questioning their beliefs. Some people just like to complain and refuse to help themselves, sad but true.
The real solution would be having more than 2 parties. I mean, TECHNICALLY we do but not really.
You are going to have to fundamentally change the way we vote and how we count them. In a single-choice-vote, plurality system it will mathematically trend toward having exactly two viable choices, no matter how many are allowed on the ballot.
Mixed-member proportional would probably work well for the House and Senate, and some judicial/executive positions. Where that’s not tenable (President, Governor, etc.) a Condorcet Method should be employed.
Plenty of Dems run on election reform to enable third party viability. Gotta vote in the primaries.
I believe the system is fundamentally broken but I still participate because you can’t fix it by doing nothing. But yes, my coworkers are not people who’s opinions will be changed by fact and reason. They’re also the same people who say, “facts don’t care about your feelings.” Imagine that. But then they get all bent out of shape about how “no one is doing anything about this!” but then refuse to vote. My guy, you’re not doing anything either!
That’s so defeatist. It makes you feel like you’re smart by saying that and thinking you’re privy to something but it’s just totally passive and does nothing. If all the people who said that actually organized and made a plan, there would be a sizable number of people who could actually make a difference.
Did you even read what I wrote? This is not my opinion, this is what I have been told. I don’t think this is correct and that these people are honestly just being lazy and don’t want to take responsibility for their vote.
No shit, my response was in reference to the people you were referring to. Did you take the “you” part as literal? I was agreeing with you. Take it down a notch with the defensiveness.