• ZeroHora@lemmy.ml
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    7 days ago

    “Death to America” = “advocating violence” is the dumbest shit I ever read.

    • NonconfrontationaI@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      Not the first time I was banned for that either, despite explicitly saying America is a country, not a person, and needs to be sanctioned out of existence and balkanized.

      • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Most people interpret “Death to America” as “Death to America(ns),” given it’s usually a phrase uttered by people who do want Americans dead.

        But - strictly speaking - it’s not technically that, no.

        In other words, you’d be acquitted if it was a crime in a US court, but the burden of proof for a Lemmy instance/community ban isn’t anywhere near Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, as you and I both know from personal experience.

        • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
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          6 days ago

          given it’s usually a phrase uttered by people who do want Americans dead.

          based on what?

          • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            The only experience I ever had with that phrase growing up in the US is:

            • Iranian nationalists apparently LARPing imminent attacks on the US for decades

            • Taliban/al-Qaeda conducting attacks on the US (and its allies)

            Hell, I can’t remember hearing it in any other context than that with the sole exception of your ban history.

            • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
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              6 days ago

              The only experience I ever had with that phrase growing up in the US is:

              Iranian nationalists apparently LARPing imminent attacks on the US for decades
              
              Taliban/al-Qaeda conducting attacks on the US (and its allies)
              

              So you base this only from news then?

              Hell, I can’t remember hearing it in any other context than that with the sole exception of your ban history.

              What ban history? You are probably mistaking me for someone else.

              • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                So you base this only from news then?

                More or less, yes. I’ve never visited Taliban-held areas nor al-Qaeda training camps to ask them myself. I just have to go with the word of journalists that they didn’t set up an entire production just to trick me. Obviously that’s imperfect, but do you know anything about worldwide current events? Did you also get that from the news?

                What ban history? You are probably mistaking me for someone else.

                Yeah fair enough, whoever it was further up the chain that made the assertion you’re defending.

                • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
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                  6 days ago

                  More or less, yes. I’ve never visited Taliban-held areas nor al-Qaeda training camps to ask them myself. I just have to go with the word of journalists that they didn’t set up an entire production just to trick me. Obviously that’s imperfect, but do you know anything about worldwide current events? Did you also get that from the news?

                  Start by interacting with people outside the western hegemony, WITHOUT the chauvinism and racism! You can also learn more by reading, there are a lot of books about the history that you don’t know anything at all.

                  • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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                    6 days ago

                    I do, hence my bothering to talk to you (and others) in this thread.

                    Generally speaking, it goes incredibly poorly; they often do mental gymnastics to paint everything I say as problematic, as perfectly exemplified by “I suspect someone defending Russia is from Russia” -> 'Then you are racist."

                    Then when I disagree with that accusation I’m accused of “trolling,” “prodding,” “harassment,” etc.

                    You can also learn more by reading, there are a lot of books about the history that you don’t know anything at all.

                    I sincerely doubt there is any text I could read that would convince me that Russia bombing the shit out of Ukrainian kids is totally fine, whether it’s via my browser or ink on paper.

                    I think the logic of “someone defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has a decent chance of being from Russia” is pretty airtight too.

                    In both cases, you’re welcome to try to convince me otherwise or point me to a text you think would convince me otherwise, but obviously it’ll be harder considering you’re starting from a pretty disadvantages position of attacking me first and trying to persuade me second. While we’re educating each other, I can point you to some Psychology books that point out why that’s… unwise, to say the least. The short version is people tend to not trust someone whose first priority is to attack them.

              • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                It does, but unfortunately for your efforts to troll me that’s not one of the countries I’ve been to recently.

              • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                Yep, lol.

                I think this is a case of your echo chamber biasing you, and maybe even my echo chamber biasing me - as much as I take great efforts to get out of any echo chambers I could be a part of, even if doing so gets me slapped with removals and bans.

                People simply aren’t chanting Death to America in the streets around the world 24/7. They’re mostly just going about their lives.

                • NonconfrontationaI@lemmy.ml
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                  6 days ago

                  As someone who doesn’t live in the US, nah man, we talk about how your country is fucking up the world again, lol.

                  We all know why gas has doubled in price. We saw what you did to that elementary school.

                  • HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world
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                    6 days ago

                    As someone who doesn’t live in the US, nah man, we talk about how your country is fucking up the world again, lol.

                    Oh I’m well aware of that (especially in the last two years), but that’s a different goal-post.

                    We all know why gas has doubled in price. We saw what you did to that elementary school.

                    Agreed, and I hate it too. Well, the latter. I’m not big on gas cars so that bit doesn’t affect me as much.