Is an action good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?
If it’s the first one, then all you’re saying is “God commands what God commands,” and assigning “good” to that is meaningless. If God commanded you to do evil things, then you would have to just blindly accept that as “good.”
If it’s the second one, then you acknowledge that there’s a source of morality independent of God that you’re judging God’s commands against to determine that his commands are good. At that point, you’re in the same place as the atheist, and it raises the question of why we need to listen to God as opposed to just going to the source.
This argument literally predates Christianity. But most religious people just think that philosophy doesn’t apply to them and that the answer to every philosophical question is just “Jesus.”
‘This may sound absurdly simplistic but think about it. Suppose (to take the most improbable example) you decided, or were told and chose to believe the world was created by an invisible entity who, despite all the evidence that he or she occasionally disliked us but was mostly indifferent actually loved us and thought about us all the time . Suppose, piling absurdity upon improbability, you also decided, or were told to believe , that this same person decided to split himself in two and turn one part of himself into an ordinary person like you and me and pay a visit to a desert tribe and get himself arrested and executed for treason, at which point he performed a conjuring trick, came back to from the dead, vanished mysteriously but planned to return and punish all the bad people and make everything nice (though in the meantime, the bad people could go on getting away with it and the good people go on getting buggered up by the bad people-that is, when they were not getting cancer, or run over or bankrupt. Or tortured, of flogged or were worked like beasts or raped or killed in power struggles which were nothing to do with them) Suppose you were misguided enough to believe that lot. What you would do?
Would you devote all your spare hours to finding someone who would disabuse of these intently peculiar delusions, so that you could finally sleep at night? Or would you go, once a week or more, to listen to someone telling you that you were quite and every thing you believed was true and what’s more, if you ever stopped believing it, terrible things would happen to you even after you had died?’
Morality is human made, not divine.
Right and wrong are based on consequences and empathy.
Compassion and fairness are universal values.
Helping others is moral, not a religious obligation.
Killing in the name of religion is unethical.
Laws should protect life, liberty, and wellbeing.
Punishment should be just and proportional.
Ethics evolve with knowledge and society.
Human rights are inherent, not granted by gods.
Responsibility is personal, not delegated to deities.
Empathy is a rational guide for action.
Exploitation and oppression are immoral.
Charity and social support are human duties.
Cooperation improves survival and wellbeing.
Tolerance is a rational social value.
Let me make this simple. If God shows up in the sky tomorrow and says “murder is good, actually” then is your conclusion, “Oh, I guess I was wrong about murder being bad, it turns out murder is actually good because God said so” or is your conclusion, “Oh, I guess I was wrong that God only tells us to do good things, because God just told us murder is good and we know that murder is evil?”
You’re literally doing the exact thing I described, refusing to engage with a philosophical question and just responding to it with platitudes.
Is an action good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?
If it’s the first one, then all you’re saying is “God commands what God commands,” and assigning “good” to that is meaningless. If God commanded you to do evil things, then you would have to just blindly accept that as “good.”
If it’s the second one, then you acknowledge that there’s a source of morality independent of God that you’re judging God’s commands against to determine that his commands are good. At that point, you’re in the same place as the atheist, and it raises the question of why we need to listen to God as opposed to just going to the source.
This argument literally predates Christianity. But most religious people just think that philosophy doesn’t apply to them and that the answer to every philosophical question is just “Jesus.”
‘This may sound absurdly simplistic but think about it. Suppose (to take the most improbable example) you decided, or were told and chose to believe the world was created by an invisible entity who, despite all the evidence that he or she occasionally disliked us but was mostly indifferent actually loved us and thought about us all the time . Suppose, piling absurdity upon improbability, you also decided, or were told to believe , that this same person decided to split himself in two and turn one part of himself into an ordinary person like you and me and pay a visit to a desert tribe and get himself arrested and executed for treason, at which point he performed a conjuring trick, came back to from the dead, vanished mysteriously but planned to return and punish all the bad people and make everything nice (though in the meantime, the bad people could go on getting away with it and the good people go on getting buggered up by the bad people-that is, when they were not getting cancer, or run over or bankrupt. Or tortured, of flogged or were worked like beasts or raped or killed in power struggles which were nothing to do with them) Suppose you were misguided enough to believe that lot. What you would do? Would you devote all your spare hours to finding someone who would disabuse of these intently peculiar delusions, so that you could finally sleep at night? Or would you go, once a week or more, to listen to someone telling you that you were quite and every thing you believed was true and what’s more, if you ever stopped believing it, terrible things would happen to you even after you had died?’
Bruh. I don’t know how I could possibly make this more clear to you.
I AM NOT RELIGIOUS.
The bit I posted was a sarcastic bit making fun of religion, not my actual views. How are you still on this a month later anyway??
The source is God
Which one?
Morality is human made, not divine. Right and wrong are based on consequences and empathy. Compassion and fairness are universal values. Helping others is moral, not a religious obligation. Killing in the name of religion is unethical. Laws should protect life, liberty, and wellbeing. Punishment should be just and proportional. Ethics evolve with knowledge and society. Human rights are inherent, not granted by gods. Responsibility is personal, not delegated to deities. Empathy is a rational guide for action. Exploitation and oppression are immoral. Charity and social support are human duties. Cooperation improves survival and wellbeing. Tolerance is a rational social value.
Good is good. Only thing is deists believe good is a person with intentions for you and everyone to reach himself, to reach goodness.
He helps you if you listen to him, but only if you listen to him. He does not “command” you are fully free to tell him to fuck of at any time
Not an answer.
Let me make this simple. If God shows up in the sky tomorrow and says “murder is good, actually” then is your conclusion, “Oh, I guess I was wrong about murder being bad, it turns out murder is actually good because God said so” or is your conclusion, “Oh, I guess I was wrong that God only tells us to do good things, because God just told us murder is good and we know that murder is evil?”
You’re literally doing the exact thing I described, refusing to engage with a philosophical question and just responding to it with platitudes.