Trump’s executive order on voting rights. I may be misinterpreting this (correct me please if I am), but it sure sounds like you won’t be allowed to vote if you didn’t opt for a “RealID” version of your license. A regular driver’s license contains no information regarding citizenship status, at least in my state, so it wouldn’t count. A lot of low income people in rural America have skipped getting a “RealID” because it’s more expensive. If this order goes thru, that decision may cost them their right to vote. This could disenfranchise millions of low income voters.
The previous Conservative government in the UK introduced mandatory ID for voting a few years ago, and it ironically disproportionately affected Conservative voters (who tend to be older) as they were less likely to hold a valid passport or drivers license. No idea whether this is likely to be the case in the US. Certainly seems like an attempt at voter suppression though.
The problem here really is that there’s no standard national ID system in US, not that someone is asking for a proof of citizenship in order to vote.
deleted by creator
Only a minority of Americans have passports, overwhelmingly the wealthy.
And this administration has been finding excuses to not provide passports to certain classes of people, like trans people.
I’m not saying it won’t affect anyone but a real id takes like $30 and about 20 minutes.
Hahaha no. Last time I went to the DMV for anything (CA), I had an “appointment” and it still took two hours waiting in line.
Not the easiest nor cheapest to obtain. Also, only like 1/4 US citizens have a passport last I checked.
deleted by creator
It seems like it’s either $130 or $165 (130 + 35) for a first time applicant according to the web. Keep in mind that many US households couldn’t bear a sudden $400 expense and this is even worse amongst the working poor.
That imposes a de facto poll tax. If the courts weren’t corrupt, they’d immediately shut that down as unconstitutional.
Basically, it seems that way since, afaik, no free ID is a available that meets the requirements.
Even if it were free, getting it would still definitely be harder for the disadvantaged, but I have no idea how the courts might see that in isolation.
deleted by creator
Burgers are like $15 now
deleted by creator
How much vote tax is acceptable? You say $200 every 10 years is fine. Would $1000 every ten years also be fine? $10,000? Where’s the limit?
According to about a century of court descisions, no poll tax is constitutional as a voting requirement.
And yet one is being introduced - almost like precedence doesn’t matter anymore.
It is a once-per-10-years spend. The renewal fee is the same. I’m not sure about RealID-complient ID prices since that all happened after I left the US.
Americans having access to healthful food and time to cook when working two jobs is a whole other thing (this disproportionally impacts people of lower income). Also, as I mentioned in another reply, trying to get all of the documents together to do this and the time and transportation to do it (remember: public transit is absolute shit, if even available, in a lot of the US) is a whole other problem.
It’s not a lifetime doc, it needs to get replaced every 10 years.
deleted by creator
Out of all the things this administration has done, this one almost seems somewhat logical.
I can understand not having a RealID or passport, since both are mainly for travel. Not everyone has a need or desire to travel.
Section D says a government-issued ID and proof of citizenship is okay. Doesn’t everyone at least have a state ID (probably a drivers license) and a birth certificate?
There is some context missing here. Other posters have pointed out some things, but what I want to point out is that there are several states where the GOP is actively fucking with the voter rolls. It is very easy for someone’s voter registration to be “challenged” for bullshit reasons, and often these challenges are made strategically to target likely Democratic voters in poor places, who may not have the spare cash to get the additional RealID proof that this EO demands.
So, even though it might seem reasonable on its face, in combination with other GOP priorities it’s obvious that the end goal is to harass poor voters.
No. I do not have a birth certificate, I lost it several years ago and haven’t obtained a replacement. More importantly, this is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Voter fraud is almost entirely non-existent. As I recall, the only instances of voter fraud that were uncovered in the massive amount of litigation after the 2020 election, were a tiny number of Trump voters, encouraged by his lies about how easy it was, and found out by his insincere attempts to prove Democrats were doing it. The risk of imprisonment is sky high, the payoff of one vote is rock bottom. But you know what does actually influence elections? Voter suppression. Trump wasn’t legitimately elected. It’s very clear from the statistics that if everybody who had a legal right to vote, had been able to vote, and have their vote counted, he would have lost, by a lot. And this measure is just designed to suppress more votes.
Nope. Especially in poor communities. Not only may someones parents be shitty and getting the documentation alone be hard, but working multiple jobs, not driving, and needing to spend hours (and money) getting to a DMV (and, in some cases, on the ID itself?) isn’t an easy task.
Oh, it’s very logical; but the goal absolutely is to reduce voter turnout even further (and our turnout is disturbingly bad already). But honestly, you ought to spend some time looking into ways of disenfranchising voters. You really might be surprised how devious they tactics have become. Just saying
but the goal absolutely is to reduce voter turnout even further
And that will be enforced selectively.
Ok so I have to ask coming from Belgium where having an ID on you at all times is mandatory (and living in the Netherlands where having at least a drivers license on you at all times is mandatory since that also has all needed data unlike Belgium). Why is this even remotely a “hard” requirement? Do Americans just not need to carry ID on them?
Outside of the marked stuff it also states a Federal or State government-issued foto id is valid, hence the question.
At all times? Even when pished at 3am stumbling home? That sounds rather dystopian and I say that living in the country with the most CCTV in the world.
To start off: Especially when you’re openly drunk at 3am and unable to act normal 😂
You need to be able to identify yourself to law enforcement (and some others like ticket inspectors on trains) when stopped (for a valid reason ofc), I’d say that makes sense? We don’t have a distrust of our (law) enforcement like there is in the US, they’re held to a high standard here.
In a lot of instances they also need a copy of your ID at the bank, your work, etc. This is mostly to prevent identity fraud as far as I’m aware.
More info: NL: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/identificatieplicht / BE: https://www.watwat.be/politie/wie-mag-mijn-identiteitskaart-vragen
It’s literally just a card (almost) everybody keeps on them together with their bank card. In the future we’ll most likely just be able to use digID (in NL) or Itsme (Belgium) as a substitute to identify ourselves.
If you get stopped and don’t have it with you the first time you’ll just get a warning and they’ll just look you up by name instead, after that they fine you for not having it with you. If you do not identify yourself they can take you to the police station until they can identify you, you know the only people who have an issue identifying themselves usually? Drunks and people who either have a history / current issue with police. (You often see this in the videos of our favorite police vlogger: https://www.youtube.com/@PolitieVloggerJanWillem)
I’ll add on to this before you still call it dystopian, for every single time a police officer asks for an ID they have to note that down, its logged that they looked this person up, they have to write why they did it (reminder: every single time) and this can get checked by a superior officer/other instance (depends on country I believe) + anyone who was checked can dispute the check afterwards. They’re very harsh on abuse of the access police have and everything they do for their work is logged systemtically and also by the officers in question (source: I worked for Belgian police IT). Here’s an example of when an officer looked up people he could not justify: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240215_94848864
Wow, thank you for the detailed response!
That final article isn’t quite relevant though and doesn’t exactly instill confidence when it took 2 years and 108,000 searches (180 per day) before anything was done…
I’m glad to hear there’s supposed to be some form of accountability, and checks and balances but we’ve seen throughout history that those sorts of checks are always open to abuse or intentionally ignored when it’s convenient for the powers that be. You may have a benevolent police force just now but that doesn’t guarantee anything in the future.
Mandatory government ID on your person at all times is still dystopian.
No, you don’t need to carry ID on you — many people that don’t drive (and many others that do) don’t have IDs.
You’ll also note that the state-issued ID must indicate the holder is a US-citizen. Most states have an upgraded version (enhanced) ID/ Drivers License that can be used to this end but it typically requires additional verification and an added fee — it is not provided by default. Non-citizens such as visa-holders and even non-legal residents are also able to obtain a state-issued ID, though not an enhanced drivers license.
The second part of that clause mentions accompanyment of proof of citizenship. This is usually a birth certificate which is often lost and costs money and takes roughly a month for states to tender a copy to the “holder”. Not sure of other states, but at least the few I am aware of do not provide a legal copy by default. Instead these must be ordered from the state.
Exactly! Its like the early Jim Crow law literacy tests in order to vote
Any unnecessary barrier to prevent voting can be used nerfariously
My state license allows an X marker. RealID doesn’t, since its contents are under the directive of the federal govt.
Also, X/trans folks are being denied passports.
Certainly seems like I’m not meant to live my life as I see fit.
I don’t have a RealID and had no intention of getting one. It took over a month to get a replacement birth certificate last year when I needed “proof of citizenship”. When my driver’s license expires I may opt for the RealID if it’s not a major hassle, but something tells me it’s about to become one.
Out of curiosity: do you never fly anywhere? Do you not anticipate needing to fly anywhere on the near future, given the current context? Do you not have a passport?
I do not have a passport. I’ve never left North America. Also, I don’t fly anywhere unless there’s no other option. I haven’t been on a plane in 2-3 years.
In the states, I believe it’s now required to have a RealID to get on a plane now. It’s that or a passport. And you need a passport (or at least a passport card) to get into Mexico or Canada if you don’t want to deal with the customs people having to pull you aside and call the state department or whatever. I say that having watched an idiot friend of a friend not bring a passport when we all drove up to Montreal years ago - stalled us for over an hour at the border because he was a dipshit. I expect Canadian and Mexican immigration officials will be rather less tolerant of such mistakes these days.
You go to the DMV and provide a bill with your name on it + a government document like SS card.
It’s pretty easy.
Nothing about the DMV has ever been described as “easy”.
Both the PA, DC, NJ, and VA DMVs have been extremely easy. I haven’t had a bad DMV experience in 10 years 🤷♂️
Lucky you, I’ve never had a good one
“I’ve been to hell, I spell it…”
On the other hand, it is a chance for informed people to stay ahead.
In my country, a real ID card is mandatory for all citizens, and it is actually good to have a single kind of document that is reliable instead of random driving licenses and student IDs and whatnots. And if you think that having a real ID card would infringe your freedom or something, keep in mind that the government, in this case the IRS, knows everything they need about you anyway.
So, get a proper ID and help your fellow, non-Nazi citizen to get one, too. Let Joe Farmer and Lucy Churchmom have their try at the voting booth with their unacceptable driving licence and laugh.
The issue is what this takes. You need:
1 document proving you are who you say (this cannot be a state or federal ID. I used my birth certificate, which can be difficult and time consuming to acquire if you don’t have access to it.)
2 different documents from different sources proving you live where you say (this would need to be a bank statement or utility bill)
You must also provide a document proving your Social Security Number (this can be hard if you don’t have the card - getting a new one is similarly painful), AND if your legal name has changed from what’s on your birth certificate, you need to provide attestation of that (marriage or divorce paperwork, etc).
So you could potentially need up to 6 documents from 6 different sources, it’s still up to the DMV to accept them, and you don’t actually get the card for at least another 2-3 weeks at minimum. There’s also a fee - in my state it would cost me about $80 after taxes.
Piggy backing off this to point out that women disproportionately don’t have utilities in their name.
So they will make the required documents free to obtain then, right? Otherwise, this is just a poll tax with extra steps.
A literal tax upon our right to vote.
Hard to provide residence for a RealID when you’re homeless. Some shelters don’t want to deal with mail, providing bus passes, etc.
Kinda hearkens back to having to be rich and white to vote.
Disenfranchising voters is transparently the goal. And it’ll be applied selectively where there are Dem majorities.
Executive Orders are not Law. The President cannot make Law only the Congress makes Law. The President must “faithfully execute” the Law.
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Tell that to all federal workers who lost their their lawfully approved congress jobs
if congress cared, maybe that would be true in fact instead of just on paper
The current administration’s strategy is to try and see if it sticks. For example one executive order was to end birthright citizenship. Blatantly unconstitutional. Was immediately blocked by a judge. But they still made the order.
They are starting to ignore the federal courts here and there. Dipping their toes in the water. Starting to indicate that judges are “radical left activist judges” and that they “have no authority” and that they should be removed and impeached and the system overhauled as a whole.
Right now the institutions are trying to block this administration but they are doing their best to set up for the moment where they will basically cross the Rubicon and ignore the Supreme Court.
I have a feeling we’re only months away from that moment and after that moment it will be clear to everyone that the US does not have 3 branches of government anymore but just one.
Executive Orders are not Law.
I think you are mistaking reality for some kind of illusory fantasy world where the constitution is actually being taken seriously.
Everyone who is not part of the GOP’s demographic needs to get a passport card ASAP. It is RealID compliant, and only $30. Yeah, it sucks that you are being forced to do that, but everyone should go and do it now, before it gets DOGEd…
Good luck with that. Americans couldn’t bother voting when it was “easy”, try getting special ids now that cost money and the gov is dismantled so everything will take forever
