Alright I’ll bite, even if Hairplug Himmler is right (and let’s be perfectly clear, he’s not).
Why wouldn’t we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE “VIOLENT” and “on the street”. Wouldn’t we want to help them get off the streets?
Wouldn’t that make us safer, happier, healthier, and dare I say… Great Again? Wouldn’t that protect citizens and police officers alike at a lower cost than incarceration?
(Spoiler alert it would, but there’s no private for profit companies offering this service).
Wouldn’t these people become tax payers? Employees contributing to society? Become future homebuyers and start a family?
These empathy lacking neo-fascist clowns can’t stop punching down to those less fortunate (while claiming the lords name in vain) and I can’t wait for the day we get the opportunity to match their empathy as they head to prison (preferably one in El Salvador).
Why wouldn’t we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
It’s kind of a two-part question, that.
Do we want to spend the money to get fellow citizens off drugs and treat their mental illnesses?
That’s a pretty easy question if you have a soul: Yes.
If those fellow citizens refuse any and all help because they have a fundamental mistrust of the system. What do we do?
That’s the more difficult question. Forcing them to get treatment breaches their human rights and only stokes further mistrust in the system. Leaving them just leaves them open to exploitation and doesn’t make their lives better.
Homes are easy, it’s all the support that comes with it that’s difficult, especially if the person you’re trying to help either refuses to engage or actively fights you every step of the way.
Absolutely, and thank you for your reply. Learning and expansion of ideas and thoughts only comes from good conversation and discourse. That’s what makes this such a complex and difficult issue.
There is an inevitability of homelessness in a country is unavoidable, yes. Just like the inevitable need for criminal justice programs to detain, deter, and rehabilitate those who break the law.
No argument from me on the facts, there WILL be homelessness and crime in any society.
(This is for my sunshine and rainbows friend up top also).
Finland currently has a homelessness rate of .06% (2023) of their population. So let’s say that’s the baseline when you give people a fair shot, benefits, and treat them with care, and the remaining of those people that won’t take help when offered.
The United States has a rate THREE times that at .19% homelessness. Despite having a GDP output, 83 times as large as the US.
Since I went to public school, percentages make me woozy so let’s put it in whole numbers.
636,500 fellow citizens are homeless in the US (.19%).
If we adopted Finland’s (already proved 35+ year plan) we could get that down to 201,000 over time. Heck if it takes 35 years as well, at least we’re helping them.
That’s 435,500 fellow citizens (Or a city the size of Cincinnati) that are sleeping on the street tonight, so that ONE MAN Elon Musk can pay less taxes.
Fellow Americans, until we vote these billionaires out of office and tax them (oh I don’t know, at least as much as you and I pay) we are either ignoring the issue or complicit and I for one don’t want to be either.
TL;DR: This is just one example why we should lift up those below us, and not be pessimistic about our fellow man.
Most of our homeless want a fair shot, mental health counseling, and rehabilitation.
We need to advocate for them and help them just like if we were reading this sleeping on the street.
No arguments from me about giving them somewhere to live and the healthcare they need. If you have any kind of soul, that’s the least you can do. In an ideal world, there should be enough service to cover 100% of the homeless population (plus some buffer to cover any sudden increase) whether they take it or not. The question I have is do you have the right to force them to take it?
Wouldn’t these people become tax payers? Employees contributing to society? Become future homebuyers and start a family?
The very smallest of small percent of them would. Most drug addicts never make it out of poverty because they’ve done something to also give them a criminal record and typically can’t hold down a job.
Dude. What are you doing this for? No shit it’s not a check this box and all problems are solved situation. IF ITS NOT PERFECT, NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING.
One step at a time, and the first step is to have a little fucking empathy.
The first step is to have a little dose of reality. The world isn’t sunshine and lollipops, and the proposed solutions just end up creating slum-housing and spreading the problem around. I’ve seen it put into effect before with horrible outcomes. The path to hell is paved with good intentions and all…
My dose of reality is realizing that other countries have already solved this problem. This isn’t a closed book test.
We as a country are actively putting the needs of Elon Musk over the needs of 435,000 people sleeping on the streets at night.
Your quote is actually brilliant, because the other interpretation is when people HAVE intention to do something but do nothing. That’s exactly what I’m arguing against, doing nothing.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
How does telling you the truth about the homeless population benefit me in any way, shape, or form?
You haven’t passed the bar to call me “selfish”. Sure, I might be an asshole, but this isn’t one of those times either. The reality is that we can’t help everyone, and some people aren’t saveable. You can’t point to Sweden or Finland as answers either, because they have the highest per-capita drug deaths of other euro nations.
You’re almost there, and I sincerely value your input. Let’s go on this journey together…
What if we treated them like human beings in need of care and rehabilitation instead of criminals who can’t “hold down a job”?
Why do they not make it out of poverty?
Is it because they can’t afford to? Why is that?
Is it because they can’t afford to make ends meet on a minimum wage job? Can’t find affordable housing? Can’t pay for child care, counseling, health care, or rehab?
What if we helped them get rid of their addiction and didn’t jail them for it?
If we’re going to write off an entire vulnerable demographic of society, we as the functional members have an obligation to ensure that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are available to all. Not just those who can afford it.
Many other first world countries do this successfully already, the problem with our country comes down to the money being made keeping these people locked up and incarcerated.
Look up Norway, Finland, Sweden and their response to crime and rehabilitation. It works, if you focus on helping people instead of helping profits.
Imagine a world where those in need got the billions of dollars in tax payer subsidies that Elon Musk gets?
Alright I’ll bite, even if Hairplug Himmler is right (and let’s be perfectly clear, he’s not).
Why wouldn’t we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE “VIOLENT” and “on the street”. Wouldn’t we want to help them get off the streets?
Wouldn’t that make us safer, happier, healthier, and dare I say… Great Again? Wouldn’t that protect citizens and police officers alike at a lower cost than incarceration? (Spoiler alert it would, but there’s no private for profit companies offering this service).
Wouldn’t these people become tax payers? Employees contributing to society? Become future homebuyers and start a family?
These empathy lacking neo-fascist clowns can’t stop punching down to those less fortunate (while claiming the lords name in vain) and I can’t wait for the day we get the opportunity to match their empathy as they head to prison (preferably one in El Salvador).
It’s kind of a two-part question, that.
That’s a pretty easy question if you have a soul: Yes.
That’s the more difficult question. Forcing them to get treatment breaches their human rights and only stokes further mistrust in the system. Leaving them just leaves them open to exploitation and doesn’t make their lives better.
Homes are easy, it’s all the support that comes with it that’s difficult, especially if the person you’re trying to help either refuses to engage or actively fights you every step of the way.
Absolutely, and thank you for your reply. Learning and expansion of ideas and thoughts only comes from good conversation and discourse. That’s what makes this such a complex and difficult issue.
There is an inevitability of homelessness in a country is unavoidable, yes. Just like the inevitable need for criminal justice programs to detain, deter, and rehabilitate those who break the law.
No argument from me on the facts, there WILL be homelessness and crime in any society. (This is for my sunshine and rainbows friend up top also).
So let’s figure out how much that SHOULD be:
https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best
Finland currently has a homelessness rate of .06% (2023) of their population. So let’s say that’s the baseline when you give people a fair shot, benefits, and treat them with care, and the remaining of those people that won’t take help when offered.
The United States has a rate THREE times that at .19% homelessness. Despite having a GDP output, 83 times as large as the US.
Since I went to public school, percentages make me woozy so let’s put it in whole numbers.
636,500 fellow citizens are homeless in the US (.19%).
If we adopted Finland’s (already proved 35+ year plan) we could get that down to 201,000 over time. Heck if it takes 35 years as well, at least we’re helping them.
That’s 435,500 fellow citizens (Or a city the size of Cincinnati) that are sleeping on the street tonight, so that ONE MAN Elon Musk can pay less taxes.
Fellow Americans, until we vote these billionaires out of office and tax them (oh I don’t know, at least as much as you and I pay) we are either ignoring the issue or complicit and I for one don’t want to be either.
TL;DR: This is just one example why we should lift up those below us, and not be pessimistic about our fellow man.
Most of our homeless want a fair shot, mental health counseling, and rehabilitation.
We need to advocate for them and help them just like if we were reading this sleeping on the street.
No arguments from me about giving them somewhere to live and the healthcare they need. If you have any kind of soul, that’s the least you can do. In an ideal world, there should be enough service to cover 100% of the homeless population (plus some buffer to cover any sudden increase) whether they take it or not. The question I have is do you have the right to force them to take it?
The very smallest of small percent of them would. Most drug addicts never make it out of poverty because they’ve done something to also give them a criminal record and typically can’t hold down a job.
Dude. What are you doing this for? No shit it’s not a check this box and all problems are solved situation. IF ITS NOT PERFECT, NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING.
One step at a time, and the first step is to have a little fucking empathy.
The first step is to have a little dose of reality. The world isn’t sunshine and lollipops, and the proposed solutions just end up creating slum-housing and spreading the problem around. I’ve seen it put into effect before with horrible outcomes. The path to hell is paved with good intentions and all…
My dose of reality is realizing that other countries have already solved this problem. This isn’t a closed book test.
We as a country are actively putting the needs of Elon Musk over the needs of 435,000 people sleeping on the streets at night.
Your quote is actually brilliant, because the other interpretation is when people HAVE intention to do something but do nothing. That’s exactly what I’m arguing against, doing nothing.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
This phrase relates to the active resistance of people doing evil things. Holy crap you can’t even get your retort to make any sense.
You’re not a realist. You are just a selfish asshole.
How does telling you the truth about the homeless population benefit me in any way, shape, or form?
You haven’t passed the bar to call me “selfish”. Sure, I might be an asshole, but this isn’t one of those times either. The reality is that we can’t help everyone, and some people aren’t saveable. You can’t point to Sweden or Finland as answers either, because they have the highest per-capita drug deaths of other euro nations.
Reality? As if the problem is not spread around already. HeLpInG ThESe pEoPle WoUlD bE WoRSe.
Just say what you really think instead of dancing around it. Maybe then someone can have a conversation with you that will actually make a difference.
You’re almost there, and I sincerely value your input. Let’s go on this journey together…
What if we treated them like human beings in need of care and rehabilitation instead of criminals who can’t “hold down a job”?
Why do they not make it out of poverty?
Is it because they can’t afford to? Why is that?
Is it because they can’t afford to make ends meet on a minimum wage job? Can’t find affordable housing? Can’t pay for child care, counseling, health care, or rehab?
What if we helped them get rid of their addiction and didn’t jail them for it?
If we’re going to write off an entire vulnerable demographic of society, we as the functional members have an obligation to ensure that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are available to all. Not just those who can afford it.
Many other first world countries do this successfully already, the problem with our country comes down to the money being made keeping these people locked up and incarcerated.
Look up Norway, Finland, Sweden and their response to crime and rehabilitation. It works, if you focus on helping people instead of helping profits.
Imagine a world where those in need got the billions of dollars in tax payer subsidies that Elon Musk gets?