Absolutely yes with the self interest, my own journey unfortunately had to begin from there, with the realization that a better world for everyone meant a better world for me. As capitalism continues to decline, it’s only going to get easier for us to appeal to people’s self interest. We just gotta build something we can point to. Doesn’t have to be huge, just any local structure we build to make life easier. It sucks that the level of consciousness here is generally so low, but it’s also just true that people are more receptive to something when they see tangible benefit from it.
I think the cynicism, like any tendency, is both learned and dependent on circumstance to continually reinforce. Like what is cynicism if not a deep, fear-based belief that the person ia not capable of enacting meaningful change, and it’s better to take actions that will be rewarded and not punished under whatever power structure they currently exist in? That tendency towards compliance-dressed-as-cleverness can be worked with, we’re not gonna get them on board immediately but there will be a stage where even the cynical calculus will favor leaving a sinking ship.
I’m not sure they’ll try to leave the sinking ship until they’re already swimming, y’know? People who learned that resistance is futile over the course of US hegemony are not going to easily unlearn it. I think it’s happening among young people because they don’t have as many memories of the US being unstoppable. In fact, for people born after 9/11, the US has rarely won.
But for people who remember the US winning the Cold War, it’s going to take a lot more to make them unlearn their cynicism.
Irving Kristol isn’t the only one? Obviously not every single Trot became a neocon, but many did, and there’s a reason for it: cynicism. Further, a Trot working for the CIA itself is actually just an extension of the same cynicism. It’s all growing from the same learned helplessness and lack of revolutionary optimism: if revolution is impossible, all you can do is get your bag.
This is not exclusive to Trots, of course. Plenty of young people with revolutionary optimism “grow up” to become cynical older adults, and that’s not because they’re chicken. They simply become convinced there’s no hope.
I don’t think neocons were ever legit. This was an attempt to infiltrate the “New York Intellectuals” and their publications, just like they did later with Ramparts Magazine
And I don’t see the cynicism in Trotsky’s writing, agree with him or not. Permanent Revolution is anything but cynical.
Absolutely yes with the self interest, my own journey unfortunately had to begin from there, with the realization that a better world for everyone meant a better world for me. As capitalism continues to decline, it’s only going to get easier for us to appeal to people’s self interest. We just gotta build something we can point to. Doesn’t have to be huge, just any local structure we build to make life easier. It sucks that the level of consciousness here is generally so low, but it’s also just true that people are more receptive to something when they see tangible benefit from it.
Right, but that’s when the cynicism comes in: they do not believe a better world is possible, so they just want to get their bag.
It’s why a bunch of Trots became neocons. They decided revolution was impossible.
I think the cynicism, like any tendency, is both learned and dependent on circumstance to continually reinforce. Like what is cynicism if not a deep, fear-based belief that the person ia not capable of enacting meaningful change, and it’s better to take actions that will be rewarded and not punished under whatever power structure they currently exist in? That tendency towards compliance-dressed-as-cleverness can be worked with, we’re not gonna get them on board immediately but there will be a stage where even the cynical calculus will favor leaving a sinking ship.
I’m not sure they’ll try to leave the sinking ship until they’re already swimming, y’know? People who learned that resistance is futile over the course of US hegemony are not going to easily unlearn it. I think it’s happening among young people because they don’t have as many memories of the US being unstoppable. In fact, for people born after 9/11, the US has rarely won.
But for people who remember the US winning the Cold War, it’s going to take a lot more to make them unlearn their cynicism.
Irving Kristol was never a communist. He was never genuine. He always worked for the CIA.
Trots=neocons is not a real thing, never was. They just had a lot of infiltrators.
Irving Kristol isn’t the only one? Obviously not every single Trot became a neocon, but many did, and there’s a reason for it: cynicism. Further, a Trot working for the CIA itself is actually just an extension of the same cynicism. It’s all growing from the same learned helplessness and lack of revolutionary optimism: if revolution is impossible, all you can do is get your bag.
This is not exclusive to Trots, of course. Plenty of young people with revolutionary optimism “grow up” to become cynical older adults, and that’s not because they’re chicken. They simply become convinced there’s no hope.
My statement remains the same.
Okay, whatever.
So. Were they chicken? Because that’s the topic.
I don’t think neocons were ever legit. This was an attempt to infiltrate the “New York Intellectuals” and their publications, just like they did later with Ramparts Magazine
And I don’t see the cynicism in Trotsky’s writing, agree with him or not. Permanent Revolution is anything but cynical.
I didn’t say Trotsky himself was a cynic.
I said that Trots, and other people who formerly had revolutionary politics, became neocons out of cynicism.
Not because they’re chicken.