• klankin@piefed.caEnglish
    212·
    11 days ago

    Being a carnivore is less efficient than even those monoculture global transport lines.

    So what defines right vs privilege? Is it just who’s allowed to be stupid?

    • psud@aussie.zoneMEnglish
      52·
      10 days ago

      I wonder about efficiency. If the meat I get is from 30km away on grassland that couldn’t grow crops it’s grown on land that is otherwise useless for food. How does using an otherwise useless piece of land factor in? Compared to tomatoes from the other side of the world they came on the most efficient cargo ships

      I’ll definitely agree with you that animals raised on food humans can eat are terribly inefficient. I also think the meat from those doesn’t taste as good as the ones raised on grass

      Likewise the river water cows drink is returned in their urine, delivered to the ground not to waterways, reinforced with extra nitrogen which the plants want

      I don’t believe the efficiency calculations are straight forward except in until most extreme cases

      • klankin@piefed.caEnglish
        61·
        10 days ago

        I was thinking on another scale entirely. Its probably more efficient to exclusively grow tomatoes around the equator, then use one or two massive container ship to transit around the world.

        Livestock get negative points both for their high position in the food web, but also their reduced ability to scale (compared to row crops).

        That being said, even on a small scale, to raise a cow you have to go through SO MUCH food that (even ignoring the value of non-food crop like grass) I’d be surprised if livestock wasn’t an order of magnitude less efficient.

        Of course like anything it depends on the metric, probably could dump a lot of lead in the ocean chasing efficiency. The general point stands though, livestock just have too many logistical issues to be a good choice on a global scale (without factoring in the subsidiaries that keep livestock farms afloat today).

        • psud@aussie.zoneMEnglish
          33·
          10 days ago

          Have you not heard about the tons of fertilisers needed for crops?

          • klankin@piefed.caEnglish
            10·
            10 days ago

            Yeah, the issue is livestock eat crops to energise themselves, so livestock inheritly requires exponentially more fertiliser than just the crops would.

            • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
              21·
              10 days ago

              ruminants eat grass, which humans cannot eat, and turn it into protein, which humans can eat… grass grows on land that humans can’t use to grow crops… and even crops humans do grow cannot be fully eaten by humans, something like 70% of the biomass from cropland is not consumable by humans… which we turn into human food by feeding to to animals that can eat it.

              • klankin@piefed.caEnglish
                4·
                10 days ago

                30% is still quite a lot (much more than just eating a plant!), and the land still has uses beyond just farmland.

            • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
              2·
              9 days ago

              GRASS, I know you know it’s grass because you responded to the comment with the grazable pastoral GRASS LAND map.

    • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
      44·
      10 days ago

      Okay bud, but meat is seasonal as well

      Do animals stop existing for some parts of the year? it’s only seasonal hunting seasons to protect the spawn cycles in over hunted areas, that is a conservation technique.

      You can fish all year round, no problems. 

    • neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      10·
      10 days ago

      Agreed, but only if you ignore the cost of raising livestock at scale to the environment.

      That needs to get sorted first, then things like this should be examined.

      And on and on until we create a more sustainable world for ourselves and our children.

      • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.mlEnglish
        3·
        9 days ago

        Of course. A score against veganism doesn’t automatically justify a meat-heavy diet. Especially if it’s based on industrial agriculture. Actually I don’t even think the conflict here is meat vs vegan diet, but industrial vs sustainable agriculture.

        • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
          2·
          9 days ago

          I agree with you, sustainably grown whole food is probably a huge lever. That would help a lot of people.

      • texture@lemmy.worldBanned from communityEnglish
        3·
        9 days ago

        they seem to be aggressively ignoring the cost of raising livestock. i cannot accept that they genuinely cant understand it, they must be just ignoring it. very puzzling stuff.

        • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
          2·
          9 days ago

          i cannot accept that they genuinely cant understand it

          That is your cognitive dissonance. You can go to grasslands and hunt a ruminant, in fact many people do this… deer meat is a thing. What did it cost to raise that deer?

          Now you can put up a fence around some grassland, and let some cattle graze on it… now the cost is a fence.

          pick the level of sustainability you like, but it is achievable

      • jet@hackertalks.comOPMEnglish
        25·
        10 days ago

        raising livestock at scale to the environment.

        ruminants live on their own in the environment, they are part of the environment.

        sustainable world

        You can’t have sustainable agriculture without animals, fertilizer comes from animals or fossil fuels…

  • brem@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    11 days ago

    I make jerky from venison and trade some for plane tickets to places with very small deer, and then I trade the rest for tickets to a petting zoo (to pet their very tiny deers)

      • Pratai@piefed.caBanned from communityEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        I dunno… It’s sort of fun watching a moderator break their own community rules!

    • xep@discuss.onlineMEnglish
      21·
      7 days ago

      God forbid we discuss topics that you disagree with in an online forum. Absolutely verboten, I understand. Wrong-think bad. Why are you here?

      • Pratai@piefed.caBanned from communityEnglish
        2·
        7 days ago

        This bullshit showed up in my feed. That’s why.

        You want to bark at the vegans while they bark at you, that’s fine. But know that everyone outside of your petty little irrelevant scrap thinks that both of you are embarrassing yourselves.

        This community used to show actual food and people would discuss the different dishes. Fantastic! Go back to that. It was meaningful content. But this shit is just sad kiddo.

        Grow up.