- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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A little context might have been nice, but then the musk hate and conspiracy theories would be harder to justify:
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
The context is in the article in the OP. It doesn’t really matter. Elon is notoriously apathetic about the law. He could choose not to comply as he does so very often and realistically face very little in the way of repercussions. But that’s how little he actually cares about free speech.
The context is extremely important in this one. It changes the sentiment from “Musk is censoring the political opposition because he supports the government” to “Musk complied with the legal demands so as to not have to remove X from the entire country of Turkey, and is fighting the demands in court as he says they are censorship”.
X is now notoriously law abiding, but also notorious for fighting against government ordered censorship in court. They comply with legal orders so as to not face legal trouble, and then file legal challenges - even going so far as to pay for and help with legal challenges for individuals who the government are censoring.
It’s not important. Elon did not say “I’m a free speech absolutist within the confines of the law”. Free speech absolutism does not make exceptions for law.
Further, those legal demands were made by a foreign country with no authority over him or his company. Here’s some helpful context: Elon doesn’t even recognize the local authority but suddenly he bends knee to authority demanded from the other side of the planet? Nah.
It absolutely does when you’re running a business.
Companies operating in a country need to follow that countries laws, or they can’t operate in that country. Fact.
Why do you think the GDPR laws were such a big deal worldwide?
It absolutely does when you’re running a business.
It absolutely does not. If you’re running a business you simply don’t refer to yourself as a “free speech absolutist” because it’s fucking stupid.
Companies operating in a country need to follow that countries laws, or they can’t operate in that country. Fact.
Then a “free speech absolutist” would stop operating in that country. Fact.
So you think the best way for a company to fight a government trying to eliminate free speech from their country is to……checks notes……remove their product that is used by millions from said country?
Not to take them to court to fight their attempts to stifle free speech, but to just……leave?
“Free speech absolutism” is not “the best way” to do a God damn thing. This has nothing to do with the “best way” to do anything. It’s about the owner being a pathological fucking liar.
Yeah, he is forced to, but just to be clear, he will bitch for a month if this happens for even more legitimate reasons in any country that is a functioning democracy e.g. UK, Brazil, Biden US, Germany, South Africa…
X is challenging the legal order in court btw:
https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
Just like they have done and are doing in basically every country that makes legal demands like this.
Oh thats funny because they refused to take down the Sydney stabbing videos, despite being told to for months. They gave us a half arsed geoblock for Australia while still allowing the offending material to circulate.
And Musk will routinely attack free speech, he does it all the time on X to users e.g. plane tracker guy
Edit: Ah you’re a rightist troll trying to pretend Musk isnt a Nazi, I see.
They took the stabbing videos down in Australia. They fought against removing them from the rest of the world saying that the Australian “safety commissioner” doesn’t have the jurisdiction to do that.
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision. Erdoğan is known for silencing and jailing opposition and anyone with knowledge of Turkish politics is aware of this
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision.
No it’s not. Did you even read the linked X Global Affairs post?
Lack of compliance with these orders can lead to severe sanctions, including throttling of the entire platform in Türkiye. X complied with the court order while we challenge the order in court because we believe keeping the platform accessible in Türkiye is vital to supporting freedom of expression and access to information, particularly following natural disasters and other emergencies.
It’s not a political decision, it’s a legal one. If they don’t comply then the entire site can legally be banned from the entire country, for example.
Yes I read that and hold that this decision is still highly political. Technically X can choose to simply not exist in Turkey. Obviously they won’t do this and Erdogan knows this, profit is king. This doesn’t change the fact that they are choosing to cow to threats by a dictator. Legal decisions are political and have political implications. Who do you think wrote those laws?
So you think that instead of complying while fighting the legal order and being able to tell users that what is happening, you think that they should pull the entire site from the country?
They aren’t “choosing to cow to threats by a dictator” - they are following the law, and fighting the legal order through the courts.
Come on mate lol. They’re doing the absolute most user and free speech friendly thing they can possibly do given the situation.
Question - what would you have done in this situation if you owned and ran X?
I would never stoop so low as to exploit the labor of others
What?
I am well aware it isn’t a logical business decision, I just don’t care
he has blocked before at the request of erdogan multiple times.
Free speech absolutism at work
It’s frustrating that we knew he was full of shit when he was saying it. And now the evidence is showing it is bullshit. And it’s like it doesn’t even matter.
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
“full of shit” = “standing up for free speech against governments that are trying to censor political opponents” ?
- How is censoring a politician “standing up for free speech”?
- “full oh shit” = not a “free speech absolutist”. “free speech absolutist” implies that you will not censor any speech no matter what.
You don’t seem to understand how the legal system and governments work.
They issued a legal request to censor his account in Turkey. Failure to do so would result in severe consequences for X, such as having to take X offline for all of Turkey.
X complied with the law and are challenging the censorship request in court, the only place that has the power to overrule the government.
You don’t seem to understand how the legal system and governments work.
I am not a lawyer but I do understand how jurisdictions work. Elon is not in theirs.
Failure to do so would result in severe consequences for X, such as having to take X offline for all of Turkey.
If he were a “free speech absolutist” as he claims, he would let them.
You didn’t answer my question.
Elon isn’t. X is.
I did answer your question. Last paragraph.
X is.
No it is not. Twitter is a US company with US servers. If you want to argue that the US is now a territory of Turkey, please cite a source.
I did answer your question.
No you didn’t.
How is what you quoted “standing up” to anything? Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
Yes. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you might have taken the quoted text and the link as being the same thing, when they are 2 separate things.
The X link is a post from X Global Government Affairs regarding this Turkey censorship situation. Some of the text from it:
X received an order to restrict access in Türkiye to the account of the now-detained Mayor of Istanbul. While we have followed Türkiye’s order regarding the account, we strongly disagree with the order and are challenging the order in court. In the spirit of full transparency, we are sharing the court order and our legal filing below.
We knew it was bullshit about 3 days after he took over when he banned literally the 1 person he specifically said he was not going to ban.
They know they can do that sort of shit because they hold the power. They can blatantly and unconvincingly lie, their followers will regurgitate those lies, but neither of them really believe them. They are just posturing and having fun with words, just like fascists always have done.
Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
Do you know how legal requests work?
Fascist speech absolutism at work
To Der Elon that’s the same thing.
No one on X should expect anything better
If they’re still on Xitter it means they approve of this
People on X expected what is actually happening, not what people in here think is happening (and hope it is).
- The Turkish government ordered a legal request to ban the opposition leaders account in Turkey.
- X complied with the legal request, as there are huge penalties for not complying
- X immediately started the process to challenge the legal request in court
This is what most people on X expect, which is to fight for free speech on X.
Xitler.
One more reason to not put all of your social media eggs in the same basket.
I saw the headline and for a split second got excited for X-Com news. Instead, I got xitter.
Honestly whomever owns the ip these days should do something about it. Also glad to see I’m not the only one hired wired for the game franchise
Jake Solomon left Firaxis in 2023. Don’t know if there is anything in the pipeline over there.
(And if there is anything, please let i be Apocalypse 2.0)
He should go to Bluesky and get blocked there as well.
Why would he get blocked there?
He would get blocked there because BlueSky will comply with legal requests as well, because if they don’t they will face criminal charges and/or massive fines. BlueSky, being a platform that loves censorship, would not challenge the legal order in court like X are either.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
if they don’t they will face criminal charges
The Turkish government does not have the authority to enforce criminal charges on an American person/company.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
Only if the instance owners/servers were in Turkey.
Criminal charges was probably the wrong word, but that’s being pedantic. The company operates in Turkey and allows Turkish people to use the product, so they have to follow Turkish laws. The Turkish government can file legal charges against them for failure to comply. Same with any fediverse instance owners - they would either have to block their instance from all Turkish users, or comply.
that’s being pedantic
It’s not. At all.
they would either have to block their instance from all Turkish users, or comply.
No, they wouldn’t. Once again, Turkey has no authority over people and servers not located in their jurisdiction.
The Turkish government has legal authority over companies that are serving their citizens.
Why do you think the GDPR laws were such a big deal even outside of the UK?
The Turkish government has legal authority over companies that are serving their citizens.
No. They don’t. You can keep repeating this non-sense but it’s simply untrue.
Bluesk
bluesky will block too.
You can check here >> https://programming.dev/post/28713862
For some reason that post does show up for me, but I can’t vote on it, because “it’s been removed”. The crosspost offers a 400 error. Really weird.
Try this one: https://feddit.nl/post/32346719
That works… how strange.
Sometimes cross-instance links might not work as intended, no idea why.
I was gonna say. Dude better go to the actual fediverse if he wants a reliable platform that wont be instantly taken down again.
Seems like a good opportunity to frame Musk and Erdogan as allies.
You’re saying it’s not related to musk’s political views?
No. How did you reach that conclusion?
Because framing is usually done in bad faith, when i read that i read ‘they arent allies, the media wants you to think that’
Not necessarily. I just meant in the context they provide for the event.
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
No, it’s not. It’s related to the legal takedown request that they were given.
I thought they didn’t block political figures… Guess the muskrat just meant the figures he agrees with…
They comply with local laws and legal orders, like the one that forced them to do this:
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
Anyone still on Xitter is part of the problem.
Delete it.
Free-speech absolutists gonna free-speech.
But Elon has no clue why everyone thinks he’s a nazi
Memba when Elon Fuck said it would be a town square where everyone can speak out?
Only people that Stinky agrees with.
Has Musk ever met a dictator he doesn’t like?
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
X complied with a legal order, and are challenging it in court just like they do every other time a government orders something like this to be done.
Put the pitchfork away.
I think elon called Lula a dictator…and called the UK a dictatorship. That makes it even more obvious what he’s doing.
He also said Canada is ‘not a real country’ so…
Yes, but that’s not a dictator fetish (ok, it is, but it is a different one)… He knows dictators are a bad thing to be, because he calls the people he doesn’t like one. But he never calls out actual dictators, he actually makes deals with them and helps them. That says he likes and respects that model of governance, even if he knows it is deeply unpopular and deeply disrespects functioning democracies. And uses it to rouse his stans.
