Its very unamerican, but its possible to acknowledge that someone has done something awful, is an awful person, and deserves to die, while simultaneously acknowledging that how we treat the worst among us shapes our humanity and our society.
The penal system should be about minimising harm to the public, and rehabilitating the perp to whatever extent possible.
Its fine to conclude that someone is irredeemable, but they’re still entitled to a lifetime of support to be their best self even if that’s in prison.
American culture is heavily focused on tit for tat transactions. Did bad murder = gets dead. She might deserve death but we are all lessened by giving it to her.
What do you do when mental illness apparently makes you premeditate a murder, carve religious symbols into someone’s flesh, and smash their head like an ape getting at a coconut? You can’t make that right. They grouped up, got all edgey with their satanism, and murdered someone. Your dark past does not give you an excuse to rob others’ futures no matter your mental condition.
No one said it should be an excuse. And a possible solution in her case might have been a forced therapy; so she would also be locked away, just not in prison but a mental institution. If that’s better or worse depends on the institution. But at least the goal would be to right her mind and not punish her if there is no meaningful corrective result.
I’m not of the opinion that all minds can be “corrected”. This case was an especially nasty one, involving multiple people all targeting one person and luring her out away from everyone and mutilated her. The stain of malice cannot be denied here. Seems like everyone has skin in the game for mental illness but no one gives a shit about the hatred and loss of life.
Right, and presumably you’re an expert with at least one relevant PhD or other qualifications and experience who is able to determine what minds can and can not be “corrected”. You must also be an expert of the highest order to be capable of making that determination without speaking to her, or being so much as in the same room as her.
Locked up in a mental institution is also punishment. It’s not like this is a large chillout area with fun games.
No idea how it is in the US, but in Germany this is an even worse punishment, because they don’t get a normal sentence. If they get locked up in jail, there is a time attached depending on the severity of the crime. But mental institution is basically “until deemed fit for society”. So if the staff there wants to fuck you up (or if you are actually a lost cause), they will simply never deem you fit for release and you stay there until eternity, pumped with drugs. And all of this without another judge looking into the case ever again (unless you happen to have very very good support from outside, but even then the judge will typically ask experts — so the doctors — who will just explain why you have to stay locked up).
There are no mental institutions like that in the States. Reagan ended that. That isn’t to say there aren’t any at all, but there are no asylums or anything like that. Most mentally ill become homeless and its fucked up. So an American saying someone needs mental help is basically saying they have no real recourse. I didnt think it was fun and games or a chill out area but I dont think the help she could get in the States would ever have been enough. I dont know what is enough looking at her stated reasonings for the murder. Thats not a problem we know how to simply fix. What I do know is, again, everyone hand waving that someone lost their life to this woman. You glazed over it here, instead going right to talking about mental institutions. Again.
There have been some troubled people that wanted to scare the Christians that were abusing them. And given the number of false convictions around the early and mid 1990s because of ‘satanism,’ anyone that brings it up just looks stupid. Purely, ridiculously stupid.
Which is why they were edgey carving that into her chest? I dont see how you are refuting that they carved a pentagram into her fucking chest here. Thats what I said. Thats what the satanism was. Do you think that was done in jest? Or that they were not being fucken edge lords when they did that? What are you trying to fucken say here? This thread makes no sense now.
There is no evidence it was premeditated, and she didn’t carve religious symbols into anyone. There was a 1 symbol carved into the person, and it wasn’t by her. That person admitted to doing so in court.
Yeah no I read that. I would no longer find her guilty of premeditated murder and as I stated before she did NOT as confirmed by the person who carved said pentagram in her chest stated to police, carve any religious symbols into someone. Not only do I think she served her sentence now I think the state is guilty of torture and you should be legally eligible to be held liable for slander. “Familiarize yourself with the case”. Hopefully other people’s opinions teach you that your opinion isn’t absolute.
Slander ffs. Her and her cohorts went out, lured a woman by herself and tortured and killed her. Everyone seems to be forgetting this but when conservo AI bros get back what they hand out its karma.
Fix the society and the material conditions that allowed this to happen, and work to undo the harm that the failures of society caused that caused this to happen. This crime was completely preventable, and this person, given her personality this late in life after a lifetime of unimaginable and uninterrupted torture since the moment she was born, is obviously someone that would be a good person to have in society.
No actionable plan? There are so many actionable plans that work better than doing nothing. Pick one. Norway. Finland. Iceland. Fucking China. France. Honestly nearly any society that has made it to mid-capitalism or better.
The ‘Perpetrator’ was raped multiple times as a child, physically and verbally abused, and was only sentenced to death because this happened in 1995 instead of 1994.
She was quite literally tortured her entire life, with zero support, zero examples of positive behavior, zero effective alternatives. This was allowed to happen explicitly because of both a lack of healthcare, and a lack of government oversight. If she had regular healthcare, her rapes would have been reported sooner, and she would have had therapy and a new family to guide her to make different choices.
If we did not have a CHRISTIAN society, we wouldn’t have the hysterical whining from far-right christians like you about ‘satanism,’ which would then have allowed the jury and judge to actually look at her like a kid that has been only exposed to abusive behavior, instead of a ‘super evil super-predator satanist.’
You said “I would fix the world and society” thats not a fucken actionable plan my guy. That has no details on how to accomplish the said fixing or what you even fix to begin to help. And unless you invent fucking time machines I dont think you can “fix” people being raped. Absolute insanity here just thinking that Norway, Finland and all Nordic countries are perfect and have no rape or lawsuits. Fucken wild.
She was also repeatedly raped as a child. Sometimes you need to understand what lead a person to their crimes. If you can’t see past the reality of the perpetrator, and only care about obsessing over the most brutal parts of the crime instead of Pike’s lifetime of suffering, then your opinion isn’t related to justice, just revenge.
Revenge was most likely the motive for her trying to kill (only failed due to lack of time) the other death row inmate.
Committing premeditated revenge murder for making rude comments and possibly other actions is not simply “OK” because you had a rough time in the past. Other victims don’t get to just murder everyone they don’t like because they had a bad time. Hell, most rapists were probably raped them selves, not an excuse, considering other victims aren’t out there doing it.
This doesn’t matter. You are just too emotionally fixated on the details of the crime to have a good faith conversation about the constitutional implications of state sanctioned torture.
Torture is explicitly forbidden by the Constitution. You cannot use it to punish some, and if you do, that person deserves restitution, prior crimes notwithstanding.
I already said in this thread multiple times that the state shouldn’t be able to murder people. We shouldn’t be here. She should just be sitting in a cell learning about her own brain and getting psychological help. But here are we. And everyone calling for her immediate freedom forget she has received no help and brutally, violently murdered someone with 2 other people. If the world would be how I want it to be, they’d be left to their community’s judgment. But modern people dont grow up in tightknit communities like we are supposed to. At least most of us dont anymore.
That’s great and all, but the reality is that she was neither jailed for life or executed, she was tortured, and she deserves restitution because, despite her conviction, she still has constitutional rights.
You keep trying to handwave her rights away with appeals to disgust. I don’t give a shit about whatever emotional reaction details of the original crime brings you. If you don’t respect the constitutional protection against torture, you’re deeply in the wrong.
Pike may have perpetrated a crime, but she is also a victim of state abuse. The former doesn’t invalidate the latter.
but the reality is that she was neither jailed for life or executed, she was tortured
Never said she was, have been saying this entire time she was just tortured.
You keep trying to handwave her rights away with appeals to disgust
She already waived somebody else’s rights completely away. That has consequences. Am I the only one who remembers this? Only one in this thread who fucken cares she ended someone else’s existence over admitted jealousy? Go read the court docs, watch her interview. She said it herself. Yes, I am making appeals to disgust. What she did was disgusting, no matter her own dark past. That doesnt mean what the state did was right, that doesnt mean what she did was right. Its a shit fest.
You literally said “most people change”. So yes, you indeed did bring most people into the conversation. Everyone here screams mental illness, but nobody wants to talk about the brutality of carving symbols into flesh and cracking bone with primitive tools.
The person I replied to did, I didnt see it wasnt you, but that means you didnt even read the whole thread just my comment and came in here with a shred of context. Good job.
Most people dont crack other’s skulls in and keep the pieces either
Its very unamerican, but its possible to acknowledge that someone has done something awful, is an awful person, and deserves to die, while simultaneously acknowledging that how we treat the worst among us shapes our humanity and our society.
The penal system should be about minimising harm to the public, and rehabilitating the perp to whatever extent possible.
Its fine to conclude that someone is irredeemable, but they’re still entitled to a lifetime of support to be their best self even if that’s in prison.
American culture is heavily focused on tit for tat transactions. Did bad murder = gets dead. She might deserve death but we are all lessened by giving it to her.
This is probably the only thing needing to be said in all honesty.
if you punish mental illness, then society itself is sick.
In the US. Can confirm society itself is very sick.
What do you do when mental illness apparently makes you premeditate a murder, carve religious symbols into someone’s flesh, and smash their head like an ape getting at a coconut? You can’t make that right. They grouped up, got all edgey with their satanism, and murdered someone. Your dark past does not give you an excuse to rob others’ futures no matter your mental condition.
No one said it should be an excuse. And a possible solution in her case might have been a forced therapy; so she would also be locked away, just not in prison but a mental institution. If that’s better or worse depends on the institution. But at least the goal would be to right her mind and not punish her if there is no meaningful corrective result.
I’m not of the opinion that all minds can be “corrected”. This case was an especially nasty one, involving multiple people all targeting one person and luring her out away from everyone and mutilated her. The stain of malice cannot be denied here. Seems like everyone has skin in the game for mental illness but no one gives a shit about the hatred and loss of life.
Right, and presumably you’re an expert with at least one relevant PhD or other qualifications and experience who is able to determine what minds can and can not be “corrected”. You must also be an expert of the highest order to be capable of making that determination without speaking to her, or being so much as in the same room as her.
Locked up in a mental institution is also punishment. It’s not like this is a large chillout area with fun games.
No idea how it is in the US, but in Germany this is an even worse punishment, because they don’t get a normal sentence. If they get locked up in jail, there is a time attached depending on the severity of the crime. But mental institution is basically “until deemed fit for society”. So if the staff there wants to fuck you up (or if you are actually a lost cause), they will simply never deem you fit for release and you stay there until eternity, pumped with drugs. And all of this without another judge looking into the case ever again (unless you happen to have very very good support from outside, but even then the judge will typically ask experts — so the doctors — who will just explain why you have to stay locked up).
There are no mental institutions like that in the States. Reagan ended that. That isn’t to say there aren’t any at all, but there are no asylums or anything like that. Most mentally ill become homeless and its fucked up. So an American saying someone needs mental help is basically saying they have no real recourse. I didnt think it was fun and games or a chill out area but I dont think the help she could get in the States would ever have been enough. I dont know what is enough looking at her stated reasonings for the murder. Thats not a problem we know how to simply fix. What I do know is, again, everyone hand waving that someone lost their life to this woman. You glazed over it here, instead going right to talking about mental institutions. Again.
it’s amazing when you can pinpoint Americans.
Factually not what happened, but please enlighten me with your elevated world view.
There has never been a Satanic ritual related death in US history.
There have been some troubled people that wanted to scare the Christians that were abusing them. And given the number of false convictions around the early and mid 1990s because of ‘satanism,’ anyone that brings it up just looks stupid. Purely, ridiculously stupid.
Which is why they were edgey carving that into her chest? I dont see how you are refuting that they carved a pentagram into her fucking chest here. Thats what I said. Thats what the satanism was. Do you think that was done in jest? Or that they were not being fucken edge lords when they did that? What are you trying to fucken say here? This thread makes no sense now.
There is no evidence it was premeditated, and she didn’t carve religious symbols into anyone. There was a 1 symbol carved into the person, and it wasn’t by her. That person admitted to doing so in court.
Please familiarize yourself with the case before commenting:
https://law.justia.com/cases/tennessee/supreme-court/1998/pike.html
Yeah no I read that. I would no longer find her guilty of premeditated murder and as I stated before she did NOT as confirmed by the person who carved said pentagram in her chest stated to police, carve any religious symbols into someone. Not only do I think she served her sentence now I think the state is guilty of torture and you should be legally eligible to be held liable for slander. “Familiarize yourself with the case”. Hopefully other people’s opinions teach you that your opinion isn’t absolute.
Slander ffs. Her and her cohorts went out, lured a woman by herself and tortured and killed her. Everyone seems to be forgetting this but when conservo AI bros get back what they hand out its karma.
No that’s the story you gobbled up like Trump telling you public healthcare is going to burn America. Gobble gobble gobble. Think more, repeat less.
Then what did she do? Go and give kisses and hugs and only the damned others did this? You aren’t even making sense just here to be a troll.
you’re not an expert. just some random idiot.
Okay Mr expert then, what the fuck is up? What do we do?
Fix the society and the material conditions that allowed this to happen, and work to undo the harm that the failures of society caused that caused this to happen. This crime was completely preventable, and this person, given her personality this late in life after a lifetime of unimaginable and uninterrupted torture since the moment she was born, is obviously someone that would be a good person to have in society.
Very broad strokes with no actionable plan, cool. Is wishing praxis?
No actionable plan? There are so many actionable plans that work better than doing nothing. Pick one. Norway. Finland. Iceland. Fucking China. France. Honestly nearly any society that has made it to mid-capitalism or better.
The ‘Perpetrator’ was raped multiple times as a child, physically and verbally abused, and was only sentenced to death because this happened in 1995 instead of 1994.
She was quite literally tortured her entire life, with zero support, zero examples of positive behavior, zero effective alternatives. This was allowed to happen explicitly because of both a lack of healthcare, and a lack of government oversight. If she had regular healthcare, her rapes would have been reported sooner, and she would have had therapy and a new family to guide her to make different choices.
If we did not have a CHRISTIAN society, we wouldn’t have the hysterical whining from far-right christians like you about ‘satanism,’ which would then have allowed the jury and judge to actually look at her like a kid that has been only exposed to abusive behavior, instead of a ‘super evil super-predator satanist.’
You said “I would fix the world and society” thats not a fucken actionable plan my guy. That has no details on how to accomplish the said fixing or what you even fix to begin to help. And unless you invent fucking time machines I dont think you can “fix” people being raped. Absolute insanity here just thinking that Norway, Finland and all Nordic countries are perfect and have no rape or lawsuits. Fucken wild.
If you define any desire to kill as mental illness…
well good luck with your utopia of happy sociopaths pretending to be mentally ill and getting re-released to murder again.
She was also repeatedly raped as a child. Sometimes you need to understand what lead a person to their crimes. If you can’t see past the reality of the perpetrator, and only care about obsessing over the most brutal parts of the crime instead of Pike’s lifetime of suffering, then your opinion isn’t related to justice, just revenge.
Revenge was most likely the motive for her trying to kill (only failed due to lack of time) the other death row inmate.
Committing premeditated revenge murder for making rude comments and possibly other actions is not simply “OK” because you had a rough time in the past. Other victims don’t get to just murder everyone they don’t like because they had a bad time. Hell, most rapists were probably raped them selves, not an excuse, considering other victims aren’t out there doing it.
Again, having a horrid past does not excuse her actions. The murder still took place and the stated reasoning was jealousy.
Nothing excuses her crimes, but being tortured should absolutely excuse her conviction.
I’m sure her victim would feel great about that, or you know, nothing at all because she smashed her head in with a piece of asphalt.
This doesn’t matter. You are just too emotionally fixated on the details of the crime to have a good faith conversation about the constitutional implications of state sanctioned torture.
Torture is explicitly forbidden by the Constitution. You cannot use it to punish some, and if you do, that person deserves restitution, prior crimes notwithstanding.
I already said in this thread multiple times that the state shouldn’t be able to murder people. We shouldn’t be here. She should just be sitting in a cell learning about her own brain and getting psychological help. But here are we. And everyone calling for her immediate freedom forget she has received no help and brutally, violently murdered someone with 2 other people. If the world would be how I want it to be, they’d be left to their community’s judgment. But modern people dont grow up in tightknit communities like we are supposed to. At least most of us dont anymore.
That’s great and all, but the reality is that she was neither jailed for life or executed, she was tortured, and she deserves restitution because, despite her conviction, she still has constitutional rights.
You keep trying to handwave her rights away with appeals to disgust. I don’t give a shit about whatever emotional reaction details of the original crime brings you. If you don’t respect the constitutional protection against torture, you’re deeply in the wrong.
Pike may have perpetrated a crime, but she is also a victim of state abuse. The former doesn’t invalidate the latter.
Never said she was, have been saying this entire time she was just tortured.
She already waived somebody else’s rights completely away. That has consequences. Am I the only one who remembers this? Only one in this thread who fucken cares she ended someone else’s existence over admitted jealousy? Go read the court docs, watch her interview. She said it herself. Yes, I am making appeals to disgust. What she did was disgusting, no matter her own dark past. That doesnt mean what the state did was right, that doesnt mean what she did was right. Its a shit fest.
We are not talking about most people though.
You literally said “most people change”. So yes, you indeed did bring most people into the conversation. Everyone here screams mental illness, but nobody wants to talk about the brutality of carving symbols into flesh and cracking bone with primitive tools.
I literally never talked to you before in my life.
What is there to talk about? Its brutal and fucked up. What else is there to say?
“Most people” does not matter when we talk about a person that is clearly not like most people. In their upbringing and in their actions.
The person I replied to did, I didnt see it wasnt you, but that means you didnt even read the whole thread just my comment and came in here with a shred of context. Good job.
Cry me a river.
So insightful. Thank you for the discussion fellow reader. Glad we could come to a null understanding