Man if only there was some huge portion of left wing constituents demanding change over a tax funded genocide that the democratic party could have easily pandered to and gotten that extra 1% boost of votes.
But like such a group would be too small to make a difference amirite.
Ah yes, Palestine abstainers, too small to make a difference (so you can’t blame them for ushering in fascism and several additional genocides!) but also large enough that if Dems had just Tried This One Simple Trick, they would have gained net millions of votes and won the election.
“69.16% of Americans are okay with fascism” isn’t really a resounding defense of the health of American democracy in the face of fascism, though.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
And unfortunately, until that changes the next elections are going to be the same. Trump’s approval is down, but it’s still higher than it was at this point his last term.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Culture, in large part, determines morality, and culture is heavily influenced by geopolitical boundaries.
As an American myself, I have no interest in #notallAmericans defenses. We made our fucking bed, we can lie in it.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
The same reason why it was close in 2020, and in 2016. The same reason why the Tea Party in 2010 took off, why Americans gave Bush Jr. a second term in '04, why the GOP in the 90s saw significant success in running towards fascism. The same reason why Reagan got two terms with overwhelming popularity, why Nixon was elected on a platform of disdain for minorities, why Goldwater was a hit in the GOP and took the South from the Dems in 1964 for the first time since the Civil War.
We are a broken nation which has never managed to fully reckon with the deeply rooted authoritarian character within our culture. Trump is just the first time when a major party has given full voice to that inner fascist cretin, and it found that the base liked nothing better.
No excuses, no crisis staring us in the face, no illusions of a Truly Democratic Leader waved about. A creature whose prior term displayed the full range of incompetence and malice towards everything from leftists to Christianity, and whose campaign rhetoric promised nothing more than to get worse in its conduct if elected again. Trump was the final presentation of the question, unambiguous, “Do you, Americans, want fascism?” A mirror looking us flat in the fucking face, and daring us to speak.
And our response was an overwhelming “Sure, why not.”
Culture, in large part, determines morality, and culture is heavily influenced by geopolitical boundaries.
Even if you meant ethics instead of morality, this is getting real close to some outright blood-and-soil nationalism by placing such cultural importance on border policy.
More people didn’t vote at all than let this demented rapist burn everything down.
Fucking idiots.
There are reasons other than abstaining from voting that prevent people from doing so (being homeless, not having ID, etc.). However, fuck voting in a US election - democracy is an illusion.
Empty votes plus Trump votes still mean the majority of US was for, or at least indifferent about getting a fascist as a president.
The attack on public education paid its dividends. A huge part of that 36% likely didn’t even know where, when, or how to vote. Never underestimate the stupidity of fellow humans, it’s a capacity we have in abundance.
No.
I mean this is wrong for many reasons, not the least of which is all the road blocks put in place to dissuade people to vote. Look into how some places didn’t put prepaid postage on mail-in votes, meaning people had to pay for the luxury to vote. Look at how the election is held the evening of a work day, and many people are unable to leave their jobs to go vote without risking their livelihood. Look at how people are randomly unregistered to vote without their knowledge (this happens to me every year, despite actively voting even in local elections and living in the same place.) Look at how they offered a boatload of money to people who voted Republican, despite how that has always been illegal.
You may say that these people are still at fault, and to some degree I agree with you, but if you haven’t been so poor that you couldn’t eat, couldn’t keep your utilities on, couldn’t drive anywhere extra because you have no money for gas or public transit, then you have no idea where a large portion of the would-be eligible voters are coming from.
On top of this, the Democrats didn’t focus at all on how they were going to make poor people’s lives better. While the Republicans straight up lied, they heavily covered how Trump would supposedly lift the working class out of poverty.
I live quite comfortably now, but I haven’t always, and a huge part of what my fellow Democrats miss is just how desperate it makes you not having your daily needs met. Poor folks fall for the lies because the only thing they have a privilege of caring about is getting food on the table.
Sure, there are the bigots and the racists, and if someone voted R because of that, they are 100% the problem. But I’m pretty sure the majority of people who voted R or didn’t vote were just busy trying to survive and hopeful that the lies Trump told would change their lives forever.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results? If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results?
God, the irony is painful.
If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
The fuck
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
God, the irony is painful.
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
The fuck
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
[American voters choose candidates more conservative than most Lemmy users, myself included]
“Why are you blaming the voters for their choices???”
[repeat every two years since 1992]
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
Bruh, you’re out here pretending that the American working class is Secretly Left™. If there’s anyone who needs a reality check here…
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
I’m referring to the general.
Sorry, the rest of your comment is incoherent nonsense. I can tell you’re just throwing ideas out there because you don’t want to admit you may be wrong about something, despite how many people agree with you.
I have to block you now, because you people will never stop until I do. Goodbye.
I’m referring to the general.
Me:
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You:
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him.
Kind of sounds like you don’t know what the fuck a primary is. Or who ran in 2016.
This is democracy manifest!
Hands off my penush!
I voted for Harris. But let’s be honest. There were two choices on the ballot in 2016, 2020, and 2024:
- Fascism
- Slightly delayed fascism.
I’m glad you voted, but i don’t agree those were the two options.
I think it was a functioning government implementing more progressive policies vs. absolute shit-spewing catastrophic chaos.
And as that has already been borne out in the first, what, thirty seconds? Those people who refused to prevent it can get fucked.
Those really were the options though.
When Biden won in 2020, I distinctly remember saying, “Trump is going to win in 2024.” I saw it clearly. It wasn’t hard to predict.
Trump didn’t come from nowhere. Learn history. What we are experiencing now is not unique. Whenever wealth inequality gets too great, people demand action. And if those in power aren’t willing to move the needle and improve the lot of the working class, then they will turn to demagogues. This happens again and again in sclerotic democracies. It happened in Rome. It happened in ancient Greece. It happened in Revolutionary France. People turn to demagogues who promise to ram change through if they are not taken care of. Yes, it’s fucking obvious that Trump isn’t going to actually help the people. That’s the definition of a demagogue. Yet demagogues crop up again and again whenever democracies face the challenges we are facing now.
Democrats have proven themselves, time and time again, to not be willing to actually move the needle. Imagine if Biden had showed even half of Trump’s willpower, except for good rather than evil. Think of where we would be now.
This is why the choice was “fascism” or “slightly delayed fascism.” Kamala wasn’t going to meaningfully move the needle either. If she had won in 2024, Trump or another fascist demagogue would have won in 2028.
Merely holding the line is not a viable strategy. If you are running against fascism, and you refuse to do anything to meaningfully fight it when you win, you are responsible for getting that fascist elected.
Trump is responsible for his own sins. But Democrats are the reason he is currently in the White House. He’s doing the evil, but they are the ones who put him there.
Yeah that’s not how I see it. If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
We’d have done it fraudulently, as the republiQans have, but we’d all be better off.
Instead, we try to win honestly with well reasoned arguments and we lose by 1-3% every fucking time and have to govern with incompetent Qanuts who bought their seat with daddy’s chicken plant money.
Then a new crop of supergeniuses who just got out of polisci 201 light up a phattie and decide this is all part of the plan, man and we’re not gonna participate in this crooked show!
By the time they’re old enough and experienced enough to laugh at that, it’s been 20 years more of unrelenting Christian Nationalism and Gross Corrupt Incompetence.
I’m all for the Democrats Fixing It All (again) but saying they’re fascism-lite is stupid. We failed to elect them because we sat at home, and now it’s all on fire. As we’d spent the last year explaining it would.
Don’t insult people. Do not assume people are young or inexperienced. I’ve been voting for Democrats since 2008. And they’ve failed again and again. I fully understand why people would just throw their hands up and refuse to vote for the traitors. Don’t belittle people who are simply sick of the bullshit and decide “a pox on both your houses!” It’s not youthful inexperience, it’s disillusionment and exhaustion. People are fucking done with corporate dems. And honestly, the best long term strategy might be just to let the entire Democratic Party be burned to ashes.
We’re not the first country in modern times to fall to right wing autocrats. And one common thing? It’s not the captured opposition nominally liberal party that actually drives the autocrats out in the end. Usually the equivalent of the Democratic Party needs to be completely eliminated before the autocrats can be defeated. They suck up all the oxygen and prevent a real opposition party from forming. Typically, a popular front needs to be formed that completely sidelines and crushes the traditional liberal party and the autocrat.
Realistically, we are probably going to have to let the Democratic Party go the way of the Whigs. There’s really no other realistic way we end up defeating MAGAism. A feckless and useless opposition party is often far worse than no opposition party at all.
If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
The one thing – the one thing – that would’ve saved American democracy would’ve been the Democratic Party giving the middle finger to their crony-capitalist major donors and deciding to follow Sanders/Warren/AOC/etc. and meaningfully help the working class instead. But that was precisely the one thing that they abjectly refused to do.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
So - serious question - would you want to? Cheat.
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Damn, I have tried at least a dozen times to write comments expressing that idea, and I still haven’t managed to phrase it that well. I think I’m just gonna start quoting you instead.
I think you’re right, and it really pisses me off to think about because the republicans were almost guaranteed to win no matter which candidate they put forward. Yet they picked Trump the traitor.
For the best really, if they had chosen a more competent candidate they could be doing a lot more damage with far less bad press and diplomatic fallout
I think 100%. Both these parties don’t work for middle class. Exceptions are Bernie and AOC. Without a third party pressure, we cannot win this oligarch war.
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The top 10 states by voter participation are: Minnesota Colorado Oregon Washington Wisconsin Maine New Hampshire Michigan Iowa New Jersey
Those above as well as Virginia, Montana, Massachusetts, Vermont, North Carolina, Florida, and Connecticut have participation rates above ~70%. While a few swing states are in there, it’s certainly not overwhelming given that I’ve listed about 40% of the states.
Of course the dems didnt win. How can an ostensibly leftist politcal party win an election based on support of another countrys far right-wing genocidal war, while standing for very little else, and while also reaching rightward for republican votes? Did you honestly think rhetorically waving a glock around and hugging Liz Cheney would simply work out?
The only winners here who got exactly what they wanted were AIPAC, who also were the biggest funders of both american polictial parties in what is essentially a mercenary state.
So why blame the voters when its the dem party leadership and AIPAC who set this lose-lose scenario up?
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Also would go further into pointing out… of those 31.74% that did vote for it… it’s not a mandate for things that he didn’t run on… or even ran against.
Say trump took a shit ton of credit for promising to never cut social security and medicaid. When his mind changes from what he promised, the “mandate” arguement is even worse.
In a hypothetical world where lets say someone did run, promised a lot of things, and won with 98% of the vote, so that we could say they have a mandate. The mandate still only would apply to the things they actually claimed they were going to do on the campaign trail. If they are doing the opposite of what they promised the mandate is completely bullshit even in that scenerio.
If you didn’t vote then you voted for the bad guy.
If you didn’t vote you are just as bad as the MAGAniacs.
If you didn’t vote you voted for Trump.
If you didn’t vote you are responsible for the current situation.
But what if you didn’t vote because of the genocide in Palestine?
Does not voting in America somehow stop genocides in Palestine?
Yes.
How?
Don’t bother, the person is just a raging moron or troll. Either way, it’s not worth engaging.
I’ve already answered your question.
This one made me laugh. It’s kind of got a British humor thing going.
Edit: Am I the only one who’s going to upvote this man? Watch him for awhile, he’s a legend.
Then you allowed that genocide to make way for the riviera of the middle east (sponsored by the USA)
If people who stayed home in 2024 voted for Trump’s genocide, then logically, those who voted for Biden in 2020 voted for Biden’s genocide. These things go both ways.
Why do you support genocide?
See how ridiculous this is?
I don’t support it, but when you know both parties are going to support it, you at least go and vote for the one that won’t fuck everything else up and won’t put the genocide on a faster track than it already is.
It’s a really simple trolly problem. On one set of tracks was Palestine. On the second was Palestine , and American democracy.
Not voting was saying fuck Palestine, just as much as voting for Harris.
The US has never been a democracy, at best it was arguably a halfway decent representative republic at one time but if so that was before anyone here was born
Which genocide was Biden doing?
The same genocide that Trump is doing. In fact, Biden’s death toll in Gaza is far, far higher than Trump’s so far.
Huh. Can you send me the legislation, executive orders or policy decisions that Biden made ordering the systematic murder, displacement, or erasure of a complete group of people?
Edit : that silence is deafening.
If people who stayed home in 2024 voted for Trump’s genocide, then logically, those who voted for Biden in 2020 voted for Biden’s genocide. These things go both ways.
Yes.
We do not escape the implications of our choices.
@WoodScientist: “Well, there’s genocide Trump MAGA and genocide, that’s not got much genocide in it.”
i voted (harris obv) but they apparently had issues with my vote and didnt count it until literally after trump won :)
If you DID vote for Harris, you voted for slightly delayed fascism. You didn’t vote for democracy, you just voted for slightly delayed fascism. I know, I voted for her. Democracy wasn’t on the ballot.
Well it was, but Cornell West was a snowball in hell
I agree.
These useful idiots have been conditioned to think that a slow loss is a win, though.
It’s a major reason why I will never vote for the ‘lesser evil’ candidate again.
If the people getting mad at me because I didn’t vote and trump won, they should do something differently next election and run a candidate that is good, not just the lesser evil.
Spoiler alert: They won’t do anything different and continue to blame the people for not “falling in line.” This is a song and dance that will last the rest of our lives.
It’s a major reason why I will never vote for the ‘lesser evil’ candidate again.
I get your point and I agree that voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil but what is your solution?
The dems dont have a reason to pick a better candidate because they wont be the ones suffering under trump, its everyone else that suffers.
The solution is changing our culture. People need to value different things then put those values into action.
The problem is that democrats are greedy and entitled, too. They’re not willing to give up their luxuries to help those who have less because they believe that those who have more deserve more, and those who have less deserve less.
It’s why Bernie lost the nomination, twice.
The dems dont have a reason to pick a better candidate because they wont be the ones suffering under trump, its everyone else that suffers.
Great point. The useful idiots should be picking better candidates in the primaries. There are other options besides the lesser and greater evils. I’ve mentioned before though how the useful idiots have been conditioned to believe that a slow loss is still a win; it’s not.
Thanks, I only partially agree with you. While your solution is a good way, its also a long way. Culture changes are slow but people are suffering now under trump that wouldnt have suffered under Harris.
Dreaming of a better future is awesome but it shouldnt come at the cost of the present. Honestly the us political system sucks and I dont know how I would choose if my moral wouldnt allow me to support either candidate.
While I can respect your morality I can also understand that others are unhappy with the non voters because Harris is still far less evil than Trump.
Honestly the us political system sucks and I dont know how I would choose if my moral wouldnt allow me to support either candidate.
I’m being the change I want to see in the world. Clearly supporting establishment politicians is not solving the problems that face us as a species, so I’m choosing to do something different.
When the useful idiots get tired of losing to fascists, then maybe they’ll start to do something different, too.
I don’t expect them to, though. It’s part of what makes them useful idiots.
What exactly are you doing differently? I am not sure if I missed that or misunderstood something.
What I got is that you are not voting, which will change nothing to the better. And trying to change the culture?
Cannot disagree more and this kind of rhetoric is not likely to sway non voters.
Who cares? Fuck them. They need to feel shame.
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Yeah well, absolving them of shame and blaming Anyone and everyone except nonvoters isn’t a winning strategy either. As evidenced by gestures around
Its just not a winning strategy. If you are fine with the world burning to stand on principles so be it though.
Do you understand why that sounds incredibly hypocritical in this context? This could read equally well as a condemnation of someone that didn’t vote.
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How about we shame the 2 candidates that should’ve won in blowout victories but instead lost to donald trump?
How about we shame the people that nominated them over the alternatives?
If anything, it just shows how awful the democrat’s nominees were that they couldn’t even beat trump.
You people only have yourselves to blame. Stop running loser candidates.
You ran a shit candidate and lost, take the L and be better
Both options were bad.
Hitler got about 33% back when he started. He achieved his position by simply ignoring the law after that. Sounds familiar?
So they reformed the state after ww2, right?
No such change here. People literally swear their lives to “defending” the olde slavermaster pact.
They basically overhauled the political landscape completely. Actually, the allies installed a parliamentary system that fixed most issues of the German, British, and US system, and it has worked quite well, better than the originals.
I think you’re on to something. Presidential Republics are inherently unstable. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that South Korea is facing similar issues to America and both have Presidential systems.
After this settles if we aren’t all fighting in anarcho-capitalist communes, America might consider similar structural reform and consider a Prime Minister style of bicameralism (but they can call it President instead).
You make a good point and it’s a hopeful one
I need to mention that the reason why 20 million fewer voters voted is. Because of the massive voter suppression that was done prior to the 2024 election. So many people were purged from voters rolls and many polling places were closed it wasn’t funny.
While I’m sure that was part of it, a lot of people didn’t vote for other reasons as well. Someone I know who you would probably consider “left” didn’t vote at all because of Harris supporting Israel (I’m aware trump is worse for Palestinians), and I know a bunch of other people I’ve spoken to online also didn’t vote at all for the same reason.
Plus I suspect a lot of other previous Biden voters didn’t vote at all for similar reasons, like possibly all party’s are owned by the rich.
Bottom line, a class war is needed to get the rich in check.
Unfortunately, if they didn’t vote, they have no right to complain when shit blows up in their face. I don’t feel represented by basically any candidate in my home country, Canada, or where I live, the UK. I still participate and vote for the person closest to what I’d like to see. If you don’t participate, you don’t get to bitch.
this is harder to say when you look at how Americans in the urban parts of the South had to wait upwards of 6 hours in line to vote, amidst intimidation by armed militias and often facing dismissal from their workplaces if they weren’t at work on time that day
Look, it’s different if you tried to vote and weren’t able to. If you literally made no effort, then stfu. I should have been a bit more clear on that.
There’s a lot that needs to be done to make the American system better, electoral college, gerrymandering, blatant voter intimidation, better worker’s rights that include the right to have leave to vote.
none of that will be done because the party currently in power is only in power because of the failing system. if we revolt we should just start from a better base system
shrugs I agree, just gotta wait and see how things pan out. Hope that America gets their shit together.
People who didn’t vote are not the one complaining, they knew things are going to be worse for them no matter who came to office.
People who are complaining are the ones whose candidate lost.
I’ll take whoever this “Did not vote” instead please
trump talked about how elon knows those voting computers so well
Let’s get a count of all of the votes that were tossed due to targeted voter registration purges.
Let’s be honest here, both parties are full of shit. During Biden term 3500 students had their visa revoked due to anti Zionist protests, let alone canary mission bullshit.
And do not forget about insider trading and that both parties are funded by private companies
It’s something to keep in mind.
Don’t alienate those 36.32%. I’m sure some of us have strong feelings about their choices, but at the end of the day they outnumber Democrats and Republicans each by quite a bit. If you want to see change you are going to have to convince some of them to join you. This goes for elections and this goes for revolutions.
Hi, OP. I just want to let you know that I appreciate the sentiment you’re trying to express in this meme, but I also kinda low-key hate you for:
- using a title that sullies the good name of Maxwell Smart by making me associate his catch-phrase with Trump, and
- using an ellipsis to weakly trail off when you should’ve used an exclamation point to finish strong instead.
Would you believe two cops in a rowboat?
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
Maybe it’s time to not consider Americans friends, and to stop supporting it as much as possible. I’ve started cutting off the american-made stuff I buy.
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
We knew.
As someone who lives in a pre-determined state… It’s shocking how much these libs don’t understand the electoral system at all.
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
Why do you think people refuse to vote for genocidal candidates? Sure, their votes don’t matter but it’s also that there’s nobody to vote for.
It’s kinda strange to complain that people don’t vote while acknowledging that the whole system is racist trash.
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Well, no. It sure looks like that from the corporate news spew, but no.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
I think so too. They are not big, just loud.
As usual, apathy is the greatest ally of authoritarianism.
I’d say the lesser evil is the greatest ally of authoritarianism in this case.
People don’t vote for democrats because democrats don’t care about the working class. They just use the culture war as a distraction from the class war.
If useful idiots didn’t vote for hillary clinton in the 2016 primary, we would’ve had 8 years of Bernie and 0 years of trump.
Instead, they just throw a woman up and say “hey guys! first BLACK woman president! Vote for us or you’re a bigot fascist!”
Surprise surprise, that’s not a winning strategy. Stop supporting the democrats who push it.
Fun fact: both times democrats ran a female president resulted in a trump presidency. In other words, 100% of female democratic presidential candidates lost to trump. If we follow history and want a fascist in office, let’s run a female that doesn’t care about the working class.
