- cross-posted to:
- browsers@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- browsers@lemmy.ml
If you are keen on personal privacy, you might have come across Brave Browser. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that promises to deliver privacy with built-in ad-blocking and content-blocking protection. It also offers several quality-of-life features and services, like a VPN and Tor access. I mean, it’s even listed on the reputable PrivacyTools website. Why am I telling you to steer clear of this browser, then?
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I just installed Brave on my Ubuntu OS on my laptop to replace Chrome. It is running better than chrome was so far. Is there a way to setup Brave to safeguard against some of things mentioned or should I go with something like DuckDuckGo instead?
We need to get some moderators in here. Lots of bigotry in this comment section…
Literally bigots, Russian trolls are defending it like they are on Reddit. Isnt there a way to lock the comments from getting out of hand
Those reasons are all pretty goofy in my book. I use Brave on a daily basis on all my PCs. Only browser out there that offers both good privacy and actual usability. Plus, the first issue in the article is literally a nonissue for me and I actually personally really like the leadership at the company.
I present: The intellectual prowess of bigots.
Yes, because using a web browser is bigotry 😂 It’s cool if you don’t like it but at least have legitimate reasons for not liking it.
It’s sort of ridiculous at this point the lengths they’re willing to go.
I have been using Brave for many years hands up
I’m mining bat.
To someone non technical you sound like you are introducing yourself like a DC villain.
Fuck is this a Shitshow in the Comments. And here is my contribution.
I’m using Brave and Librewolf as Desktop Browser and on my Tablet i’m using only Brave. On my GrapheneOS Phone i’m using Vanadium because its the default and its good enough that i don’t install a alternative.
What i want is a Browser with good adblocking and cookie… fingerprintresistance fast loading time but the main points are that these features must be enabled by default because i don’t have the time and strength to enable them on any new device.
I simply don’t have the capacity i’m worn down My Expirence has shown that some Webseites block my browser and then i simply switch to chromebased and in mist cases it works. And at this point in Time i don’t have a better chromium based Browser with this much default Privacy features than Brave.
And i don’t have the strengh to care about the CEO of them. I don’t care. i’m tired
And i don’t have the strengh to care about the CEO of them. I don’t care. i’m tired
you care enough to find multiple niche browsers and write comments about them
How is LibreWolf niche ?
niche:
relating to or aimed at a small specialized group or market
Browser stats: https://gs.statcounter.com/
Do you see LibreWolf on here? Do you see Brave on here? Do you see Vanadium on here?
Even Firefox, of which LibreWolf is essentially a reskin of, is at 2.6% and considered niche
Remember that, by virtue of us being here on Lemmy and talking about all of this, we are also a niche group of people. We don’t represent the average person, even if we might be the ones who influence them with our knowledge.
absolutely. people gotta realize when they put themselves in a bubble and not project that experience outwards to everyone else
there’s a word for this… lemme see if i can find it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge
The curse of knowledge, also called the curse of expertise[1] or expert’s curse, is a cognitive bias that occurs when a person who has specialized knowledge assumes that others share in that knowledge.[2]
privacytools is not longer reputable. privacy guides started from it a few years ago for a reason.
the crypto and the asshole ceo aside, nobody should trust a browser that claims to respect privacy that’s based on chromium.
What’s wrong with ungoogled-chromium? Or Vivaldi?
Vivaldi sends an unstoppable user counter signal to their main server, promised to change the system and now they’re ignoring any requests for updates on the issue.
That rustles my Jimmies, dings my bell and waves my red flags.
ultimately they’re still chromium and they still contribute to chrome’s dominance.
Eh, I think that’s a stretch. Right now, Lemmy is going nuclear on Firefox. Should I also stop using Librewolf, too, because ultimately, it contributes to Firefox? Chromium is solid and I think it’s better to show what type of chromium we want instead of outright boycotting the entire open source project.
Whats going on re Lemmy & Firefox?
Wait, what’s wrong with Firefox?
Okay, but that’s not a privacy reason.
Isn’t every chromium browser going to lose manifest v2 eventually, causing the real ublock origin to stop working?
I’m using Vivaldi, and ublock origin seems to be still working for me.
June 2025 is when manifest v2 is supposed to die for good. I think the issue is that it’s not really possible for Vivaldi or Microsoft or whoever to keep the code in there long term even if they wanted to.
I don’t know about every Chromium-based browser, but I can tell you that I went back to Firefox and regret nothing (I was on Brave). Firefox has gotten a lot better lately, especially on desktop. For example, they added a native auto-PiP option, which is super helpful for those of us who watch YouTube/videos while flipping through tons of tabs.
It is still a privacy reason. You are still contributing to googles plans to dominate and control the internet by using a chromium product its a privacy threat, and an everything else threat too.
But neutered Chrome (aka repurposed + degoogled Chromium) isn’t the same as Google Chrome. I 100% understand what you’re saying, but I wouldn’t file this under “privacy” (at least not without some asterisks).
Forks of Firefox (like the Tor browser) are still Firefox, no matter how neutered it is.
That’s my point. So then what’s the solution when there are essentially two mainstream/mainline browsers? How far do you believe one needs to take it? Is a fork that de-Mozilla’s/de-Google’s the browser enough (and changes the name)? Or is that “still bad”?
Because eventually you’ll run out of [usable/daily-drivable] browsers, if you consider any fork to be “evil” by virtue of coming from Chromium/etc.
A neutered fascist is still a fascist.
If one forks Chromium like Firefox has been forked to hell and back, then I view it as effectively taking the power out of Google’s hands. The issue with Chrome supremacy is that Google gets to, directly or indirectly, shape how websites/the internet operates/are built/optimized (since web devs will use it to do their web dev).
So then wouldn’t a better strategy be to make a Firefox-like, Chromium browser that is truly “neutral” (like Firefox is *on paper)? Also, remember that Mozilla receives a huge chunk of funding from Google, directly, in order to “keep Chrome from being a monopoly”.
Now, that last part depends on whether you considering Chrome to be Chromium, which I don’t. Here’s my understanding/view, overall (feel free to cherrypick or challenge any of it; I welcome and respect your opinions/corrections):
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Firefox has existed for longer than Chrome, but Chrome on release was leaner and faster (I speak from personal experience). The only other option was Internet Explorer, which was “Chrome” at the time (as in, average people defaulted to the “blue e” icon)
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Chrome became the dominant browser because it was lean and fast for its time. It’s obviously different now, but you cannot retroactively fault people for choosing an objectively-better browser [for the time]
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Genuinely not defending Google here, but my opinion is that a large reason we began to transition from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0 is because of Chrome (and any other modern browsers). This meant Chrome-optimized sites that didn’t work well with other browsers, but I view it as a no-fault situation (it’s just how tech progresses; it breaks compatibility with existing tech sometimes)
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Most people use “Google-everything” these days; I myself have had a Gmail account since it was a closed beta. This means they’re more likely to lean towards Chrome, because Google recommends it anyway
So to me, the issues are actually that people default to Google-everything, including Chrome (thus feeding Google info about their entire lives, 24/7). But I don’t see Chromium itself as evil. On its own, it’s open-source (minus Google bits obviously), which is what allows forks to be made that not only avoid the Google bits, but outright block them. I think it’s taking power back. I don’t think “EVERYONE SHOULD SWITCH TO FIREFOX OR A FIREFOX FORK IMMEDIATELY” is realistic (and I say that as someone who switched back to Firefox months ago)
I also think that web devs themselves should stop being biased towards…“Chrome-sponsored” (figure of speech) best practices. But I also think that Mozilla should [continue] making their browser more compatible with modern websites, and even maybe get more involved in establishing web design best-practices (meaning practices/technologies that work well equally regardless of browser or rendering engine). In fact, recently Mozilla highlighted their Web Compatibility reporting tool, so that people can let them know about sites that don’t render correctly in their browser
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its still furthering googles control of the internet, which is an inherent threat to privacy, regardless if you think you are participating in it or not.
Once again, that’s not privacy (the context of this discussion). Your point is that using Chromium encourages websites (as in, developers) to keep making sites that are Chromium-optimized, instead of browser-agnostic.
When you take all the “Google” out of a browser, they’re not getting any information from you because those mechanisms no longer exist. Again, I’m talking about Google and Chrome. You’re combining 3 different “issues” and slapping a “PRIVACY” label on them.
The real issue is that people default to Chrome, because for years it was the most performant browser (until it became a bloated shitfest). People need to become the change they wish to see (like me, who switched from Brave back to Firefox on all devices). That’s how you defeat a browser monopoly. This is just Internet Explorer from the 90s/2000s all over again. Remember how everyone used to default to it because it’s what they were taught? We (collectively) need to stop telling people “download chrome” as the default. It’s the equivalent of saying “google it”, instead of “look it up”.
I’m using brave lol. As a web developer I really need to test the work I do on a chromium based browser. Brave seems to be the best chromium based browser that still supposed ad blocking after the whole manifest v3 thing.
So let me pose this question to you. As someone that needs to use Chromium for work, what’s the best Chromium based browser that still supports ad blocking?
I get that Firefox is better. Heck Tor is even better. But realistically what is something I can actually use to get real work done?
Edit: ok I read the article. That is kinda bad. So please find me a chromium based alternative that I can use for work
Unironically, Ecosia has been working on a browser that’s currently in beta with a built in adblocker. Works really well!
This week I’m going to try out ungoogled Chromium and Vivaldi. I know Vivaldi is partially closed source, but I’m not actually in the camp that thinks all closed source is bad.
I use Vivaldi and it is great. It does send a “user count” to its servers but AFAIK that is literally just increasing a number in a database, effectively the equivalent of one of those free hit counters you’d put on your GeoCities page.
I use Apple products which are definitely more closed source. I would prefer open source but there are unfortunately more variables in play then just “is it open source”.
Chromium is much more secure than Firefox, so your privacy depends on your threat model here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html
Does it support ublock origin still, or has it gone the way of Chrome?
Don’t forget about the fact that a while back they secretly whitelisted Facebook trackers in their adblocker to “make pages run more smoothly” they got a lot of shit for it when people found out looking through the source code. When I heard that they did that it basically cemented in my mind that they were shady and untrustworthy, that’s in addition to the Crypto and rewards stuff.
I wonder if anyone here is going to mention SeaMonkey-Browser for fun.<br>
It’s an entire suite of applications
I haven’t seen sea monkey mentioned in quite a few years
I really wish seamonkey still worked for modern websites. It’s so cool.
80% of the stuff mentioned can be disabled. Not sure what the problem is. CEO is a dick though.
If you disable half of everything in windows 11 and never connect it to the internet, it does not spy on you. Not sure what the problem is.
I mean, the phrase ‘sane defaults’ comes to mind
What the frick?
It seems to me that nothing in life is free, including browsers. Yeah, free software exists, and that works fine for many kinds of software, but not browsers. Browsers are a living thing, they have to change constantly to adapt to the changing environment. Maintaining a browser takes effort, to an extent that far exceeds that of other programs, word processing, games, image editing, etc. A browser is a primary attack surface for all manner of malware and exploits. It’s web facing and it executes code provided by external sources. That last sentence should give you chills.
So all that is to say, that it is very much non trivial to maintain a browser. So it only stands to reason that maintaining it consistently won’t actually happen without some amount of compensation.
So how do you pay for a browser? Well everyone seems to agree, with ads. This method is apparently quite viable as a business. But I probably don’t have to tell you that there are a bunch of problematic aspects to it. User data collection (and resale) is probably top on the list of problems. It’s a pretty serious breach of privacy, I hope I didn’t have to convince anyone of that.
To get to my point though, Brave is the only browser I know of attempting to use a different model to support their project. They’re trying to allow people to just pay for the web themselves, rather than let advertisers pay for the web while users give up all their data. It may not be a perfect implementation, but from where I’m standing I don’t see anyone else even trying…
Correct me if I’m wrong though, i’d love to see other viable models.
See guys, I know people didn’t believe me when I said there are people who push for and encourage for projects to be corporatized instead of community run but here is one of them. These types of garbage arguments always bring up the idea of cybersecurity but always neglect to mention one of the biggest security and privacy threats to the corporate governed model, the corporation itself. Especially once enshittification really sets in.
And before you vomit some horrible misrepresenting argument reminiscent of Dave Plumber’s speech against backdoors in Windows, you know damn well that when I say the company itself is a privacy and security threat to the project that I’m talking about deliberate attempts by the company to make money off the project through tracking, ads, crypto mining, and any other number of shady shit. You know, things that are officially sanctioned.
That’s a long winded way to try to excuse secretly mining crypto, far right misinformation pushing, transgender phobia, and more that Brave does / has done.
I also want to point out an operating system is a huge project to create and maintain, and yet Linux has accomplished this without all the shit Brave has pulled.
PS: technically Brave has used ads as well.
That’s a really concise and thoughtless way to excuse Google, Microsoft and Apple for monetizing spying on every person on earth for profit.
And yes, Linux distros have a business model. I’m happy that distros found a business model through offering official support to corporations, it makes it truly free to the rest of us. It also helps that their competition is very expensive. Will that model work for a browser? What do you think?
That’s a really concise and thoughtless way to excuse Google, Microsoft and Apple for monetizing spying on every person on earth for profit.
Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn’t bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
And yes, Linux distros have a business model. I’m happy that distros found a business model through offering official support to corporations, it makes it truly free to the rest of us. It also helps that their competition is very expensive. Will that model work for a browser? What do you think?
That’s… Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And yes, you just pointed out of possible to raise funds without pulling the shit Brave has, as Linux distros have done… So, congrats on getting the point? A little slow, but you got there.
Nice strawman you got there. I think anyone with eyes can see I didn’t bring them up because most (all?) Lemmy users know Firefox and its forks exist.
It’s not a strawman, it’s the problem. You may not have mentioned it, but I didn’t think it needed mentioning, between the three companies I mentioned, they makeup 90% marketable for browsers, that’s the vast majority of browsers. Are there others? Absolutely. I primarily use Firefox myself, but they’re starting to lean more toward sharing data as well… I don’t know what let you think you have to stand in here.
That’s… Literally how browsers used to work. Netscape was a paid browser. Orion is starting to look into that model as well.
And Netscape? When was that paid? I can’t think of an era when that was paid… Was that like during the Mozilla period, when the browser sucked, or before that? Whatever, that clearly didn’t work at any rate, cause they aren’t still doing it. But I swear I used to use Netscape in the 90s, I can’t remember it being paid…
But no it would not work for browsers just because it works for Linux. Nobody needs support for a browser, so there’s no reason to pay for that. I’m sorry presenting that to you as a question meant you wouldn’t think about it.
It’s not a strawman, it’s the problem.
It’s a strawman you’re still trying to prop up because the issue is not only the Brave browser itself, but the owners of it.
Even if we took your argument in good faith, it would still be flawed since Brave is based on Chromium, of which Google essentially controls at this point, so you’d still be supporting Google hegemony. In other words, even from that stance you’ve brought up, it would be a bad idea to use Brave vs Firefox, Librewolf, Konqueror, etc.
the issue is not only the Brave browser itself, but the owners of it.
I mean, that an issue, sure. But I gotta be honest with you, I care far more about the practicalities of the technology than the personalities behind them. So I guess that’s where we see things differently. Don’t let me get in your way on that front, if that’s what really matters to you.
I see browsers as being problematic in general right now and new solutions are needed. If you’re happy with tracking and spying at the browser level, then fine, but I’m interested in how we can put an end to that.
If you’re happy with tracking and spying at the browser level, then fine, but I’m interested in how we can put an end to that.
And brave has shown it’s not a solution to that at all, so there’s literally no reason to defend them, or use them.
far right misinformation pushing, transgender phobia
Brave does not do this.
Goggles is the first part, the owner is the second part
Orion all the way
I second this. I simply use the FF compatible extensions and ignore the Chrome side of compatibility. It’s been awesome!
They bait and switched people promising tokens which they never ended up giving them in exchange for tracking them. Total scam.
Huh? The bat? I get bat…
