Fun fact: there’s no such thing as a legal name in most states. There’s names you use, names assigned at birth, but no legal name.
This headline is horseshit so I’ve only read enough to establish that much and am ignoring the rest of the article. Someone post a different one.
Here’s all you need to know from the article:
Republicans, and apparently some Democrats
many have warned that it could even make it harder for married women to vote.
The only conclusion you should draw is this: Marin Scotten of the New Republic is full of shit and shall not be trusted ever. You may conclude as you wish about all other matters based on other sources.
This headline is horseshit
The legislation fucks with the ability for women who change their last name after marriage to obtain the IDs necessary to cast a ballot, which are increasingly fixated on tying everything back to your Birth Certificate. Four Democrats supported this bill, ostensibly in order to fuck over Transgender people.
Incidentally, one of the four - Henry Cuellar - is indicted on charges of bribery, unlawful foreign influence, and money laundering, allegedly accepting nearly $600,000 in bribes from foreign entities in exchange for political favors. Crazy that Dem megadonors continue to back him in election after election.
Marin Scotten of the New Republic is full of shit and shall not be trusted ever.
My guy, you’re the one spewing horseshit here.
right I thought I was waking up in crazy town. many women change their names and do not update their birth certificate My therapist was literally telling me about her issues with doing it because she’s been divorced a couple times this legislation directly impacts women and trans people specifically. It is intentionally written to make it harder for people in these groups to vote me personally I’m in the middle of getting my birth certificate updated so I’m hoping it won’t be a problem by the time midterms come up, but overall this bill is a bad bill it’s not needed there’s no need for this bill it’s absolutely pointless and pathetic attempt at voter manipulation
You’re being extreme. I suppose headline is misleading because the bill would have passed without Democrat support, and it doesn’t directly restrict the voting of married women. But four house democrats did vote for this (presumably because they’re in swing districts or border towns?), and the premise (requiring proof of citizenship is soft voter supression) appears to be true.
But you are touching on something I feel. Lots of really sensationalist sources float to the top of Lemmy’s front page.
New Republic is the worst. The Trump administration already does a lot of really awful, shitty, terrible things that deserve sunlight without sensationalizing shit, but they make a lot of sensationalist articles and a lot of “Oh Boy this ONE maga voter is really sorry now!” pieces. It’s got big institutional Democrat energy.
That said, yes, the headline is indirectly correct.
Rawstory is pretty bad too. Blogs/tweets that float up can be even worse.
I get it, people have their regular sources and well we should do something about it and post better ones if we don’t like it, but still.
I’m going to conclude blue MAGA is angry and can’t take criticism.
Attacking the source when NPR and plenty of media report the same thing.Focusing direct attention on 4 out of 220 people and wording it as if those were the only people who did it isn’t a critisism, it’s a manipulation. It’s the same manipulation that was around for months before the election which lead to all this bullshit in the first place. For a median voter it makes this regular “both sides” bullshit, when in reality it’s 216 vs 4 people.
Aw did somebody criticize your favorite genociders? Did it booboo your feelies?
I wonder how the republicans voted?
It’s not these four cowardly DINOs that make me lose faith in this country. It’s the people continuing to defend them.
I don’t think anyone defends them.
But that means something like 204 democrats voted against. Maybe if those 4 hadn’t of supported the bill, it might have failed, but you can’t blame the democrats for a shitty bill when 97% voted against.
yeah you can because they need to all be united on this I bet you all the Republicans voted yes all the Democrats should have voted no not that it matters anyways because it would have still passed it’s just a matter of principle I don’t get why you guys don’t understand that it’s quite simple
Someone doesn’t know abaut the rotating villain system.
It still would have passed. 208-212
Wonder how much they’re getting paid?
Time to vote with guns.
Or at least vote for the progressive in the primary first.
Pretty obvious from the election they want progressives kept of the ballots by all means, and mostly by the dems.
Can’t challenge the uniparty monopoly.Nah, people running under the progressive name need to know we’re done fucking around.
Police love to send out provocateurs to start trouble and give them an excuse to crack down.
They arent going to listen to us until we start blowing up police cars anyway
Police love to send out provocateurs to start trouble and give them an excuse to crack down.
Case in point. There are always plenty of people who don’t mind seeing other folks get stomped.
Cops have been killing people anyway. May as well get something for it.
Apparently, the concept of ‘few’ and ‘many, many’ eludes you.
You can currently vote in the US without ID?
I don’t understand what the controversy is, providing ID along with your voting card seems normal to me.
What am I missing? I scimmed the article.
You can vote in a lot of countries without ID dude.
A birth certificate is a static document. In my case it was issued 47 fckn years ago. Why should i pay to update a half century document to match my current legal ID (passport, license , etc) I shouldn’t and it’s ridiculous
A friend changed her surname after being adopted by her stepfather. She’s fucked by this as well. Anyone who’s ever changed a stupid name, broken from a bad parent, been adopted, anglicised, or even had a fat fingered nurse typo is now fucked…because idiots are hysterical over 0.6% of the population.
Oh hey, that’s me! Nurse swapped my vowels around. Literally hasn’t been an issue for 37 years and now, it just might be.
Could you name these “a lot of countries”? Since it’s a lot of them, shouldn’t be too difficult to mention 20 right?
They say it’s to prove citizenship, a passport is proof of citizenship isn’t it? So that is enough no?
You can vote in all Canadian Elections without an id.
From vote.nz
You don’t need to take your driver licence, your passport, or anything else with you to a voting place. No ID is required.
Your EasyVote card, if you have one, will make voting faster – but you can vote without it.
When you go to vote, you’re either marked off the printed roll at the voting place, or your details are recorded. During the official count, we compare all the rolls from all the voting places in each electorate to make sure everyone has only voted once.
So you don’t require ID, but you get sent an easy vote card, to speed up the process when you go to vote. It is super quick though, usually less than 5 minutes to vote usually.
Wow… 4 countries + various US states doesn’t require ID. Yeah, that’s truly “A lot” of countries, dude.
You know how you keep saying “well we do this in my country so it’s normal”
That shit cuts both ways dude…and I’m in Australia
If you want to paraphrase me, at least do it correctly, “Well, we do this in MOST countries, so it’s normal” And yes, that is the definition of normal. It’s normal because it’s the norm. You guys are the exception. Not the other way around.
You said ID isn’t required in “a lot of countries”, and then you provide a graph (without a verifiable source) where the number of countries you don’t need ID to vote in, can be counted on a single hand.
You know, you had a chance to learn about how other countries do things. Instead you chose to be a self righteous butt. Shame.
Imagine a woman being born a Smith. She marries a Jones and changes her name and license. Her birth certificate is still Smith. She will be required to have the same name on her BC and License. She will have to choose and change one of them at her expense.
I don’t quite follow the last part. “She will have to choose and change one of them at her expense”
Obviously you need to update your license if you change your name.
So she can update her BC to match her new name? Or is that impossible, thus making her unable to vote because of it.
The new law requires either a birth certificate or passport to register to vote. A driver’s license or state issued ID isn’t good enough.
Lots of people don’t have passports (and they can take a LONG time to get) and don’t have updated birth certificates (mostly women since they’re the ones primarily to change their name).
Ok… That doesn’t seem that difficult, costs $50 to update a birth certificate. It says processing time is 4 to 8 weeks, and you have 4 years until it needs to be done.
Voting is a right, not a privilege. Adding $50 here and $30 there every time something happens removes the right and makes it something only people with money can do. Are you being intentionally dense here? If it cost $0 and took no time I could understand your point, but it takes both money and time. IDs aren’t free, passports aren’t either, updating birth certificates also isn’t free, and in many cases it has to be done in person with multiple forms of additional documentation which also takes time, effort and money to procure.
Last but not least, in its current form the people who will be impacted by it are two groups of people and one financial class of person, primarily – women and transgender who changed their name from their birth name, and people who don’t have the money to update their ID, get a passport, or pay to have their birth certificate updated. So, it’s not even effective at what it is trying to do, it’s only effective at making sure it’s harder for women, trans people who have changed their names, and poor people to vote. All three groups who historically tend to lean democrat with their votes – who would have guessed.
White men will never have a problem, miraculously.
Voting is a right, is that true for those convicted of felonies as well? Because if not, then it sounds an awful lot like a privilege to me. So either you have a large population of people whose rights are being infringed upon, or it’s not a right. Pick one. You cannot have it both ways.
And listen to yourself for a second. Women and transgender, who changed their name. Seemingly have enough money to do so, but then not enough money to also change their birth certificate? Because changing your name isn’t free either.
I agree that it’s incredibly stupid your birth certificate for one, isn’t digitally available to the voting registration process, and secondly, isn’t automatically amended when you filed for name change. But that’s another topic.
“White men will never have a problem, miraculously”
Damn, all those white homeless men I saw in the US must have had a lot of make-up on I guess.
You don’t have to put words in my mouth. If you want to know what I think, this is it. I think every citizen of legal age of a nation should be allowed to vote in their elections. I think their process should be easy and available.
I understand you think this is the dumbest act ever. That’s fine.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that you need to prove you are who you say you are. I think that’s the norm across the world, and I think there are a lot of things you need to address regarding your elections that isn’t about proving that voters are who they say they are.
We have to put words in your mouth because the ones you are letting slide out of there are not doing the job.
Yes, convicted feons should get to vote. Several states allow it. Some states don’t, and those are the problem. Once you serve your time (and pay any associated fines), your debt to society should be considered paid.
If you need an ID to vote, the government should supply that ID, otherwise it’s a poll tax. You’ve got money to pay for Internet and time to post dumb shit on the internet? Then you should have time to research this so randos like me dont have to explain it to you, and you should be willing to pay to post your opinions to us, right? You obviously have the means.
In the rest of the world, supplying identification is indeed not a problem, but the ID situation is decidedly less stupid everywhere else I’ve spent any time (western Europe vs US).
Your whole thread here is either intentionally ignorant, assholish, or my dude you gotta buy a good helmet and make sure you wear it. I’m going to go with assholish as a matter of generosity.
Friend, I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s impossible. The problem is that there’s an additional burden (financial and administrative- have you ever changed your name? It’s a nightmare.) being targeted at mainly women with a side benefit to the Republicans of affecting trans folks.
Do you see how that is inequitable access to voting?
Yes, I’m aware of the administrative process of changing ones name in the US. I’ve been intimately present during one.
That is one of the reasons I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. If you have money to make the filings to changing your name. You have the money to do one more additional request of amending your birth certificate.
It’s a shame that it isn’t done automatically. But really, in the whole process of things, it’s not that much more work. It’s just one more form to fill out.
The entire concept of having to manually register to vote is inequitable access to voting. Every citizen should be registered, automatically.
To me, it sounds like you’re fighting about if voting should be “Super difficult” or “Incredibly difficult” to which all I can say is. Maybe it shouldn’t be difficult, at all…
It sounds that we are on the same page, in that it should not be difficult to vote. Logically it follows that introducing barriers to voting is wrong.
As for the financial piece- all I will say is that circumstances change. $50 dollars may not be much to you (or it may not have been much at the time of the initial name change), but it could mean the choice is between being able to vote or being able to eat.
I live in Canada, I can vote using my free government issued healthcard or I can bring a friend to vouch for me, or i can bring a student id and a bill. While most people probably vote with their drivers license or photo ID this enables people who are homeless, very old, or in my case in 2021, just moved. (Here’s what’s needed for the curious). You’ll notice in that link there are special exemptions for people who live in long term care homes, for whom it is much more common to have no form of id.
People who don’t have easy access to id are societies most vulnerable people and I think it is especially important that they have access to voting.
America does not have a free form of id (in most states anyway) and does not allow someone to vouch as a form of identification.
I’m Swedish. Don’t know if someone can vouch for me. Never tried. Pretty sure I need an ID.
Everyone (18+) get a voting card in their mail sent to their adress. You bring the voting card and ID, like passport or drivers license. Someone ticks your name off a list and you can vote. (No registrering to vote or anything)
ID isn’t free, but a passport costs like $40-50.
You can also get a national ID card. But that’s even more expensive and I still don’t quite understand why you would want one rather than just getting a passport.
Cool, never seen someone be vouch for, but as stated, that person vouching for you needs ID.
I understand that it’s difficult for someone that is homeless to vote. The way we “solved” that here, is by doing everything we can to ensure that homeless people can be taken care of and have some kind of home, e.g. A room. And if all else fails, you can at least register with the government and they will make sure you have a place to receive mail. Meaning you will still get your voting card. You still need an ID, or have someone vouch for you, which could be difficult for a homeless person. But let’s be real. Voting is going to be the least of their problems.
I agree. All citizens of legal age deserve to vote.
I’m Estonian, we also have ID requirements, and an ID card is cheap. Passports aren’t expensive either, but ID cards are more useful in day to day life.
The US is fucked. There’s no standardized photo ID that everyone has to have. People only get passports for travel and the country is literally so huge and diverse you can travel more than most people have money to and see many different environments without leaving it. I reckon you could spend a year in NYC alone and not see everything there is to see. In 2006, 20% of Americans had passports, in 2011 it was 37%.
The most common form of photo ID to have is the driver’s license. But some people don’t get one. People also have social security cards, almost everyone has one, but that’s not a photo ID.
Luckily they now have something called a passport card (pretty much just an ID card but allows travel to like Canada and Mexico I think?), that only costs 30 bucks to get. The actual book form of passport is 130 for application, and if you’re an adult and it’s your first passport, there’s a 35 dollar acceptance fee, which all together is actually too much for some people.
They also have free voter ID cards which are nowhere close to free.
There’s just a lot of bureaucratic inefficiency in the whole ID system in the US. It’s fucked. If you’re poor and can’t get time off work to get a cheap form of ID, you might be fucked. If you don’t have transport, you might be fucked.
Really, they should fix all this first and THEN mandate photo ID for voting. Right now it disproportionately affects people who have a hard time getting a photo ID, i.e poor people. Then there’s the whole single voting day for in-person voting. It also disproportionately affects the working class - people who might have a hard time getting time off work. Wait, why is this an issue, your employer is legally mandated to give you time off to vote? Because in red states, in areas that vote blue, they only put one voting station for a whooooole bunch of people so you’d have to drive a long distance AND wait a long time in line. AND it’s only 1-4 hours depending on state AND not all states have these laws.
The whole country is rigged to not let poor people to vote as easily as the wealthy, unfortunately.
I’ve spent quite some time in the US. I’m well aware of their bureaucracy. Maybe I just have a different opinion than others. I understand it causes some issues for some, but you can get a copy, or amend your US birth certificate for $50 using their own Government website. It’s really not that difficult.
The fact you need to prove citizenship to register to vote is the least of their election problems.
The fact you need to prove citizenship to register to vote is the least of their election problems.
Is it? Potentially millions of citizens can’t vote. There’s exactly one party pushing for voter ID laws and it’s not the one that young people without driver’s licenses would likely vote for.
I think many states require you already to provide an ID to vote. ID/Drivers license aren’t free.
I believe what they passed now, the SAVE Act, results in additional identification like a Birth Certificate or Passport. You have to prove citizenship in some manner. If you got married your last name won’t match your birth certificate, I’ve read of that being used as an example for reason to deny voting access.
I personally feel this is a waste of time and money to implement and will just be used for voter suppression.
Among the most notable changes outlined in the bill is the requirement to prove U.S. citizenship before registering to vote. Acceptable documents will include a birth certificate, U.S. passport, naturalization paperwork and certain versions of the Real ID that indicate citizenship.
(https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-explainer)
Getting an ID is a barrier to access. Since you have to pay to get that ID and you have to jump through various hoops to prove who you are, and can get stuck in bureaucratic hell.
And given that the United States has record levels of homelessness, this increasingly disenfranchises a larger and larger population of voters every year.
Let’s not even talk about the current administration weaponizing bureaucracy to deny rights and access to people who they view unfavorably. Which will further disenfranchise voters even if they are capable and have documentation.
Providing ID to vote is quite normal in most countries. Getting an ID also costs money in most countries. That’s not unique to the US.
Well, yes, but I bet you (like me) come from a country where it’s legally required and so the norm to have an ID, the fees are moderate and you are able to get one in your local town hall by showing up, presenting your old ID and waiting a few weeks. All of which don’t seem to be the case in the Orange Man’s Kingdom.
I doubt it’s legally required to have an ID here. But you are right in that it’s quite simple. A passport is roughly $45, you book a time to show up at the nearest police station to re-new it. And then you get a letter saying you can come pick it up 2-3 weeks later.
Not sure where you’re from but since you were talking about Europe: IDs are mandatory throughout most (but not all) of the EU, as well as in most non-EU countries.
In my EU country, you could get a new ID in as little as a couple of days if you are willing to pay the extra fees which are actually not at all that much. You also have to pay if you lose your ID thiugh this sum is also not that much.
The bigger issue is how hard it can be for marginalized populations to get an ID if they live 10+ miles from an issuing office and they don’t have a vehicle/public transit system that can get them there. These challenges are by design and the reason why Republicans have been pushing for voter ID requirements for so long
Just because other countries do it doesn’t make it ok.
Nearly 21 million voting-age U.S. citizens do not have a current (non-expired) driver’s license. Just under 9%, or 20.76 million people, who are U.S. citizens aged 18 or older do not have a non-expired driver’s license. Another 12% (28.6 million) have a non- expired license, but it does not have both their current address and current name. For these individuals, a mismatched address is the largest issue. Ninety-six percent of those with some discrepancy have a license that does not have their current address, 1.5% have their current address but not their current name, and just over 2% do not have their current address or current name on their license. Additionally, just over 1% of adult U.S. citizens do not have any form of government-issued photo identification, which amounts to nearly 2.6 million people.
Millions of Americans across political parties do not have a license. Twenty-three percent of Democrats (23 million people), 16% of Republicans (15.7 million people), and 31% of independents/others (10.5 million people) indicate they do not have a license with their current name and/or address. Nearly 15 million people indicate they do not have a license at all, including 9% of Democrats (8.6 million people), 6% of Republicans (6.2 million people), and 18% of independents/others (5.9 million people).
Black Americans and Hispanic Americans are disproportionately less likely to have a current driver’s license. Over a quarter of Black adult citizens and Hispanic adult citizens do not have a driver’s license with their current name and/or address (28% and 27% respectively), compared to about one out of five adult citizens who identify as Asian/Pacific Islander (21%) or White (18%). Eighteen percent of Black adult citizens, 15% of Hispanic adult citizens, and 13% of Asian/Pacific Islander adult citizens do not have a license at all, compared to just 5% of White adult citizens.
Democrats and independents/others are more likely to face these potential voting difficulties than Republicans. Eighteen percent of Democrats and 17% of those who are independent or not affiliated with one of the two major parties either lack an ID or have a form of ID that may cause voting difficulties, while only 11% of Republicans do.
https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter ID 2023 survey Key Results Jan 2024 (1).pdf
TL;DR: If you want to swing elections to the GOP, an easy way to do that is to disenfranchise the voters who are more likely to vote democrat, which means disenfranchising younger and POC voters. An easy way to do that is to place additional monetary, logistical, and time barriers to entry to vote.
I don’t see a problem with having people provide ID to vote. That’s how you make sure they are who they say they are.
I don’t have the data. But im willing to bet that providing ID to vote is the norm around the world. I know for fact it is in EU at least.
The problem is that every time Republicans get something like this passed, their very next step will be to make it harder to get. Maybe they add new requirements to get the ID, or maybe they close half the administrative offices in “undesirable” districts, or maybe they raise the cost. It’s always something. Their goal is not to secure elections, it’s to discourage people from voting. The people it discourages most are the ones with the least free time to jump through hoops. A single mother with two jobs is not going to allocate too much time to voting.
Fair point. Something I did not consider.
Though as far as I can recall, Democrats have done little to actually make voting more accessible. From what I can see, neither party seems interested. A simple step such as holding elections on a weekend or non-working day where the majority is free would go a long way. Not to play whatabout here. The idea of having to prove you’re a citizen to vote is reasonable. Your fear is they will make that proof unreasonably difficult to attain is understandable.
I don’t see a problem with having people provide ID to vote
I just explained it.
That’s how you make sure they are who they say they are.
No, the current default is voter registration cards.
Basically you go to the election office, or your state’s website. Then you fill out everything that proves who you are (current address, SSN, etc), and they give you a registration card to prove you are who you are.
Or you register for a mail in ballot, which is basically the same process, but they just know where you live and therefore where to send your ballot.
This sounds the same, bit the difference is that registration cards are free, and can be done online. Other forms of ID like drivers licenses and passports are not free, require transportation to some office, and take time out of your day during business hours (potentially hours, and potentially requiring time off from work which is an additional barrier).
They are not the same.
I just explained it.
Let me rephrase then. My opinion is that having to provide valid ID to vote in an election is reasonable.
My understanding is they are putting in the step that you need to prove citizenship when registering to vote. By Birth Certificate, US Passport, or naturalization documentation.
Most people should have their birth certificate. And if they don’t, you can request it from your government, I’ve seen that costs 50 dollars, it should be free. I’m sorry it’s not.
When you file to change your name, now you also have to file to change your birth certificate, that should be done automatically, I’m sorry it’s not.
I don’t think the idea, of making sure your voters are citizens and who they say they are, is unreasonable. I’m a bit surprised it already wasn’t the case. But yes, I agree that the whole procedure of registering to vote is sub-optimal.
I also think it kind of pales in comparison when you think about how the entire system after votes are cast works. If you’re a republican in California or a Democrat in Texas, you might as just not vote. After the opposite party “win the state” your vote no longer matters. That shouldn’t be the case. Each and every vote should have equal worth.
We make people pay to get an ID partially because it’s outsourced in many states to private companies.
Privatization doing its best work here…
No Democrat should vote for a single Nazi bill, ever.
Scratch a liberal…
im not surprised these DINOs are here, theres like 10 in then senate and probably just as many in the house.
What has this country become, requiring ID to vote? What is this Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Mexico, or Canada, most of Europe, most of South America, or Most of Asia?
I have never once shown any form of ID to vote in Denmark in my 10 years of voting. Kindly fuck way off.
And these countries have compulsory voter registration and the onus of verifying a prerson’s ability to vote is on the government, not the individual.
Don’t try to pretend that Republicans here are like Europe here buddy, if these assholes want to follow European style voter ID and government then by all means, do it. Otherwise take your disingenuous argument elsewhere.
These comments and reactions are so interesting to me. Like, who are you? If you’re a progressive, you don’t want more blocking for a citizen to vote. If you’re a conservative, you don’t want laws being passed that aren’t necessary and add to the government’s control.
There is absolutely no on-going problem with voter fraud. There is absolutely no reason for this to be a problem for any legislative body to be focusing on. But, you and other commenters always have the same response, “Well, country (A,B,C) do it, what’s the big deal?”
Like wtf is the big deal to begin with? It never starts with that, it’s “what problem do you have with this extra legislation that isn’t needed?”
EVEN ONE PERSON NOT BEING ABLE TO VOTE BECAUSE OF THIS IS A PROBLEM TO ME! ONE PERSON BEING DISENFRANCHISED FROM RUNNING DOWN TO THEIR LOCAL ELECTIONS TO VOTE BECAUSE OF A REQUIREMENT THEY CAN’T REACH IS A FUCKING PROBLEM FOR ME!
The problem is the requirements around it that prevents people from voting. If the US actually had a good piece of ID it would be a non issue, it doesn’t.
“Four democrats passed this,” but we are just going to ignore the 216 conservatives that passed it?
So when do we get to start calling bullshit like this propaganda?
“man bites dog” vs “dog bites man”
We all know what the Republicans unanimously stand for. Apparently some democrats do too, and that’s worth noting.
My initial reaction to this headline was: “what now?”, and my first reaction on reading the article was “oh, it’s a continuation of the horror show that calls itself US government - not actually something that four democrats are responsible for”
So I’m totally with you. Stop the sanewashing of the continued and systematic madness rising to ever new heights of depravity, should be the headline.
Republicans built the foundation for what’s happening now for decades, and it was always like you said in your other comment: “Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do.” Well, slightly more differentiated.
This bill is yet another voter supression tool. This is what they ultimately want: you have to be rich, male, of a certain ethic, and “white” to have a say. And they’re almost there. If voting was really made easy for everyone, do you really think the GOP would still win?
This is yet another piece of codified and systemic racism, misogyny, homo- and transphobia, richism.
The hollowing out of what was once a working, relatively democratic system to a point where even the empty shell is starting to break up.All that said, Democrats should start wielding what power they have (both in the government and in media, public opinion etc.) way more decisively. Between elections we must talk about how fucked up both parties are.
This comment (from this post) puts it best imho:
https://lemmy.world/comment/16414382
https://feddit.org/post/10702307/6001640People expect the representative they voted for to vote how they want. Conservatives’ representative voted as they wanted. Whereas Democrats’ representative voted against their wishes. Hence the outrage.
This is a simplistic explanation, 4 Democratic representative might have voted as their constituents have demanded.
Based on what I hear on local news, Perez at least probably is doing what her constituents want. She won a very red district as a Democrat by appealing to the people in her district. I don’t like her vote, but I get it.
I’d bet most conservative women didn’t vote to have their ability to vote taken away as well. Having to have a “real ID” license accepted in every state not be accepted to vote is pure ridiculousness.
Everyone expects the scorpion to stab the frog, it’s in its nature.
Everyone expects Republicans to be totally corrupt monsters.
The people we are supposed to depend on to fight monsters keep helping them pass bills when they could be blocking them.
This means they are complicit. There’s always enough traitors to make the bad things pass, never enough cooperation to make the good things pass when they have a majority.
The Democrats have been playing this game for too long and it’s saf you haven’t started to notice too.
Easier to paste my response to someone else that responded with the same thing:
I have a hard time accepting that just because, conserves are being conservatives, it’s seemingly fine that they do this shit. We’ll just all be outraged at the audacity of four idiot democrats that voted in lock-step with them.
All of them need to be held accountable. ALL of them.
But here, when all I see are people ignoring the villains, it makes me wonder why I ever bothered to question how we got here.
Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do. And seeing everyone focused on holding four democrats responsible for their joint effort with 16 conservatives and not even mentioning the assholes that drew this up to begin with-
I guess it all makes more sense now how thoroughly we are fucked.
It’s totally Democrats fault.
It’s my fucking party that I’m a fucking registered member of. Don’t tell me I can’t be madder at them for literally stabbing me in the back instead of fighting my opposition like they were supposed to do.
It’s a perfectly justified reaction to be madder at betrayal. Don’t be a clueless moron.
lol… okay. You can be “madder” at them all you want. Blame the democrats and not the conservatives that drew up the bill and unanimously passed it. Be my guest.
You’re only falling for the exact thing that has enabled them to continue doing shit like this to begin with.
So someone can’t write an article about the four of them? Are there no other articles just reporting the decision? Should we not know?
So many posts on here just blaming the right. Should there be none on how some Dems are not voting for the people?
You’re the kinda guy that would make some kinda excuse for your best friend sleeping with your wife. If you don’t understand the concept of betrayal you’re beyond reason and completely detached from the emotion of the human condition.
You seem to be operating under some kinda delusion that being more upset with one party than another is somehow an endorsement.
If you call the cops after a break in, and they show up, shoot your dog and leave, don’t be mad at the cops? Be mad at only the burglar? Jesus.
Why is it they so many of you can’t ever debate a topic without telling someone who they are, what they do, or what they think?
Nothing at all about what you said is remotely accurate. And your little ‘what if’ scenario is laughably ignorant and meritless.
The next time, maybe try having an argument that carries weight instead of personal attacks and wildly inaccurate assumptions.
Jesus indeed.
You mean like how you go around telling people they don’t blame Republicans if they point out something Democrats do?
I’m not telling you who you are, you are telling me who you are. Tell me how my hypothetical is not appropriate?
That’s not how debating works. You don’t take my analogy and say “that’s meritless.” You prove it to be meritless.
See let me spell it out for you like it’s a standardized test.
In my analogy:
Burglar :: Republican
Cops :: Democrats
Dog :: My trust
Shooting :: voting against my interest
Is that clearer for you?
Lazy troll
You should know how monsters will act.
Dems need to fucking do shit or step down
If you dumb fucks had voted, they’d have the power to do things.
I did vote, you are choosing to fall for propaganda that was desigend to make you hate young and poor people.
If you voted for the Democrats, then my post wasn’t directed at you.
When you reply to my comments it is directed at me
Blocked troll
Except that’s not what’s happening. The Republicans voted like you’d expect them to vote, hence not news. The so-called Democrats betrayed what their voters expected of them.
Same reason it’s new when a small number of Republicans voted against the rest of the party and Trump.
I’ve been calling out this propaganda since 2016. Dividing the left is an extremely successful tactic.
What do Democrats have to do with the left? Especially the Democrats in question.
Establishment Democrats have shived the left a million times and I never hear this pearl clutching about how they are “dividing the left” from folks like you. When a progressive primaries a corporate Democrat we get told that we shouldn’t mess with incumbents. When a corporate Democrat challenges a seated progressive, the establishment pumps tens of thousands of dollars into the challengers campaign.
We aren’t “dividing the left”, we are acknowledging a divide between the left and third way neoliberals. Establishment candidates want our votes and especially our donations, but then they want us to sit down and shut up.
Little-l left. As in, encompassing everyone left of center. Not “the Left”.
Neoliberalism is not a left of center political philosophy. We have to right of center parties and a moderately left of center population. That’s why the Democrats are always referred to as the lesser of two evils.
Mathematically, Democrats are by definition left of center. You can’t just place the “center” wherever you want.
Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
but the center of office holders is a pointless measure
da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.
Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.
Calling people who voted to disenfranchise millions the 'left" is an insult.
Havent you heard the term “It goes without saying”? I just don’t need to tell you that the sun rises in the east, 2+2=4, or Republicans are evil. But apparently, some of you insist on giving a pass to Democrats, who act like they’re on our side, but continually help make things worse.
The point is that it’s all kayfabe and just enough Democrats will vote to make things worse or prevent something from getting better. If you only blame Republicans, you’re not paying attention.
but continually help make things worse
Funny how you people always conflate “not having the numbers to effectively stop Republicans” with “actively helping Republicans”. Every single time I drill down to ask what specifically the Dems did to make things worse, it’s always “they failed to stop the Republicans”.
I guess you’re confused because you aren’t listening.
THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.
Voting for a bill is actively helping Republicans. Do you need to watch Schoolhouse Rock again?
what specifically the Dems did to make things worse
THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.
Absolutely nobody here is mad that Democrats “failed to stop Republicans”. You need to stop being disingenuous. We’re mad because THEY VOTED FOR THE BILL.
And we circle back around to “Democrats did a bad thing” instead of “a tiny number of Democrats went against the wishes of the party and joined all of the Republicans to do a bad thing”
Propaganda.
“The Democrats” did not vote for this bill and implying so is fucking. Propaganda.
So, what is the party going to do about it? If the answer is nothing, then the party itself shares the blame. Republicans enforce party discipline while Democrats use a lack of party discipline as an excuse.
Because the Republicans are fucking fascists and we are not. It’s more difficult to enforce discipline when your party is ANTI authoritarian.
Four centrists centrist-ing.
Everyone already knows all the republicans supported it; anything under their jurisdiction is already a lost cause. What I want to know is how many people from the “left” party can’t even keep their own votes on the right side of history. It’s not news when villains are villains - it’s news when the people who say they’re here to fight back against the villains are caught supporting them, and it’s important not to drown out that important detail among a bunch of already-known regressives. People need to see that the current democratic party isn’t a viable defense against conservativism, and that we need to do something more to get things moving in the right direction again than simply trusting democrats to fix everything.
This is exactly the trick that has got us to this point, and you are giving the average news consumer way too much credit.
Yes, democrats being villains on this is novel and republicans being villains is not, but news reports bias our attention and skew reality. Viewers who are only exposed to this unconsciously end up completely turned around, saying in general democrats are the problem. This is how we end up with elections where voters stay home. And young people have internalized the disproportionate criticism of democrats, and that is probably helping give right-wing influencers credibility.
Objective and credible news should NOT just report on what’s novel. They should report on proportional responsibility.
I get what you’re a saying… but have a hard time accepting that just because, conserves are being conservatives, it’s seemingly fine that they do villain-shit. We’ll just be outraged at the audacity of four idiot democrats that voted in lock-step with them.
ALL of them need to be held accountable.
But here, when all I see are people ignoring the villains, it makes me wonder why I ever bothered to question how we got here.
Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do. And seeing everyone focused on holding four democrats responsible for their joint effort with 16 conservatives and not even mentioning the assholes that drew this up to begin with-
I guess it all makes more sense now how thoroughly we are fucked.
It’s totally Democrats fault.
Stop copy pastin this slop its barely coherent
pastin
And what I said is slop?
I’ll digress and simplify it for you since you seem to be having trouble:
I find it strange how here on lemmy, whenever something happens, any time a democrat is involved in the slightest- whatever bad happened, it’s entirely blamed on the democrats, regardless of the fact that it wouldn’t have even happened to begin with had it not been for conservatives.
Further simplification:
• A bill is drafted- by conservatives
• 216 conservatives vote for it
• 4 democrats vote for itYou: “See? We told you! All of the democrats are evil!”
Or is it every time (cuz there are countless times) people get mad at Dems for failing just enough to enable the Republicans some copy pastin breathless newbie to politics comes in with copypasta defending them?
Hmmmmmm 🤔
I’d prefer to go with what’s empirically provable vs. some random shit you came up with because you can’t be seen to be proven wrong about something- in an argument with someone that you need to assume shit about in order to look like you know what you’re saying.
And “breathless newbie”?
Hilarious! You know nothing about me, therefore, you don’t get to make edits to who I am.
Now… You’re just going to have to be okay with all of this and move on, alright?
We’re done talking now. Enjoy that ever-important last word you seem to always have to have.
Im blocked already? Man what a whirlwind
Everyone who changed their name, not just women
Are we seriously complaining that requiring ID with your current name on it is unreasonable?
Did you read the article? Did you read the law? ID is not sufficient for proof of citizenship. Your birth certificate is your proof of citizenship, and if you were married and took your spouses name, then your name does not match your ID. You must at this point apply for a US Passport. Many citizens of the US, especially poorer citizens, do not have one because they have never traveled. And, I hear there can be long lead times to getting one, because the infrastructure is not in place to support processing the quantities of passports that we would need if every American citizen now needs one. So, are we going to stop firing federal workers so that we can get everyone documented proof now so they can vote?
I’ve read it. Americans find a way to make everything as divisive and as convoluted as possible to the point it’s not even possible to discuss. Other countries have long solved these problems. I can’t even find a coherent description of the US voting process but it’s clearly not just women who are affected.
Are we seriously complaining that requiring ID with your current name on it is unreasonable?
Asked and answered. You’re assumption here is wrong and minimizes the issue at hand. And just for the record, in the future, if you don’t understand something, it’s OK to take a minute and inform yourself before you comment.
Quit trying to stir up shit by creating this false dichotomy of gender and people changing their name. Nobody cares why someone changed their name here, they’re just pointing out that MANY women do it after marriage. Something that this party claims to care about the sanctity of. You’re point that it is not JUST women is correct, and only makes the problem WORSE.
it’s OK to take a minute and inform yourself
If you read my comment you’ll see that’s been tried and no applicable information was found
Most women in the US change take their husband’s last name after marriage. Next to no men do this. Your birth certificate has the name you had at birth on it, not your married name. Your ID has your current legal name, married name in the case of most married women. These will not match for the vast majority of married women, causing them to not be able to vote, and will pose no problem to the majority of men. Does that make sense?
What doesn’t make sense is when this is requested, why doesn’t everyone else have to provide ID?
A birth certificate? Yes. What’s wrong with a driver’s license?
Non-citizens can attain a drivers license, so republicans believe there is the chance non-citizens might sneak there vote past unsuspecting poll workers.
You don’t pre-register in the US? In Canada it’s automatic when you do your taxes if you tick the box
4 out of 213 (1 not voting and 208 Nay) Democrats
and 216 (4 not voting and 0 Nay) Republicans.
Let’s be clear about this, if anybody tries to blame the entire DNC over this they’re morons complicit with the GOP.
EDIT: LINK for the curious
they are called collaborators. Nazi Collaborators…
