The supervillains are still in charge thinking up ways to destroy anyone and anything opposing them to ensure the superiority of their greedoid ultraconservatism, while the supposedly “enlightened” people who are supposed to fight those bastards as a united front are instead fighting over recriminations and supposed levels of moral purity.
Well yeah: America Is a conservative, religious country. Always has been
As a non-conservative and non-christian american, i approve of this comment.
Isn’t there enough bad things happening right now to complain about? This is a totally imaginary scenario that is years away and you’re all ruining your day a little bit more by engaging with it.
WHY?
It is totally wasted energy. Total waste of time. Counter productive to your political goals. Encouraging a culture of fixating on problems you have no idea how to solve. Bonding over helplessness and apathy.
You know a lot of canvasers are thinking about ditching the dems and going independant? You could encourage them, you could become one of them, you could help give them arguments and counter narratives, make memes, shitpost for a good cause, post in mixed comment sections where half the people hate you and fish for an even mix of upvotes to downvotes - that’s how you know you’re reaching people! Take a little pleasure in becoming unbotherable.
Also, counter narratives are great because you don’t have to substantiate anything. ’ ICE is deporting random innocent people to fill quotas ’ - your move, rightoids, I spent five seconds writing that and one braincell. Zero effort and they might end up spending 100x the effort countering it. God knows I’ve been on the other side of that. It’s a brilliant rhetorical tactic.
You don’t even have to keep arguing, you can just post ‘sounds dumb’ or ‘bad argument’ or nothing at all and just leave!
Bots wouldn’t exist if posting comments on the internet didn’t do anything. And even doing nothing is better than perpetuating misery-posting culture in the online left.
Tony Benn said that the job of the left is to 1) anger people and 2) inspire hope. We need to get a lot better at the second one.
:edit:
Just to clarify, I also hate the Dems lmao
Can we get Andrew Yang as an option?
you mean Asian Joe Biden?
No the only adult in the room willing to talk about wealth redistribution
he didn’t have a real plan for that though. it was a semblance of a plan.
The global elite using their newspapers to laugh him out of the room didn’t mean he didn’t have a plan.
Established power didn’t like his plans.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/12/andrew-yangs-universal-basic-income-proposal-expla/
Under Yang’s proposal, every American over 18 would receive a payment from the government for $1,000 a month, or $12,000 a year.
Yang says the payments would be offset by a 10% value-added tax, VAT, and by replacing duplicative social-welfare spending. Current recipients could choose between their existing benefits and $1,000 in cash.
It was pretty simple and didn’t even require new congressional funding.
You’re allowed to go learn about the world instead of spitting out the propaganda we are fed
so his plan was to force consumers to pay for it through VAT? how the fuck is that redistribution of wealth?
small businesses, low income households and rural communities would have the most to lose! thats not even mentioning the cluster fuck it would put American medical in since they would likely be hit the hardest due to all of the products and services they use that are made across the entire world.
let’s ignore the obvious though, and say that it happened. VAT is in place. now what happens?
Sure the government could redistribute those taxes back through welfare but let’s be honest, 75-85% of those funds would be earmarked for defense like it always is.
it’s a stupid idea that only idiots support, and there’s plenty of idiots already running the show now.
I don’t know where to even start.
Everything you just typed is pure Capitalist Propaganda.
Keep regurgitating what Forbes tells you i guess, stay a slave.
just because you don’t understand how a VAT works doesn’t mean anyone who speaks out against them knows less than you.
not sure if you realize this, but you’re no better than a MAGAt singing the glory of your fearless leader. only difference is that Trump was able to brainwash more people and I don’t know if that’s better or worse for you. you got swept up in a two-bit charlatans half-baked dream of “wealth distribution” and didn’t bother to look at the pill he told you to swallow.
get your shit together and figure it out. ignorance of the truth is no excuse to the garbage you’re supporting.
The reason Bernie never won the dem primary is that less people voted for him
no, the reason why Bernie never won a primary is because Hillary and Wasserman circumvented voters choice because Clinton wanted to be the first woman president over putting forward the only candidate that could have went head to head with Trump in 2016.
and before anyone says I’m wrong, tell me why Wasserman stepped down as the DNC chair?
Clinton was never an appropriate candidate that could ever hope to go against Trump. Both of them are to blame for the current state of our country because they were blinded by achievements over what is best for our country. it’s a common problem for democrats.
I have no doubt we would be in a better place today if Bernie had been presented as the democratic choice for president in 2016.
Clinton received the majority of votes in the primary. How did they “circumvent voters’ choice”?
But opposition to Wasserman Schultz, both public and private, had been gaining steam following the publication late last week of leaked emails which seemed to show a plot by DNC officials to damage Bernie Sanders during the Democratic primary.
The emails fed the criticism from progressives and Sanders’ supporters that Wasserman Schultz and her team were hostile to his campaign from the start and had done their best to help Clinton win the Democratic nomination at the Vermont senator’s expense.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/wasserman-schultz-wont-preside-over-dnc-convention-226088
Amid furor over an email leak that revealed a bias against Bernie Sanders inside the Democratic National Committee, U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz announced Sunday she will step down as chair.
https://www.npr.org/2016/07/24/487242426/bernie-sanders-dnc-emails-outrageous-but-not-a-shock
“I know that electing Hillary Clinton as our next president is critical for America’s future. I look forward to serving as a surrogate for her campaign in Florida and across the country to ensure her victory,” she said. “Going forward, the best way for me to accomplish those goals is to step down as Party Chair at the end of this convention.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resigns_n_5795044ae4b0d3568f8397f7
so tell me. why would Clinton have more votes? OH YEAH! because of the bias that Wasserman forced upon the DNC!
I could go on and on with reports just like this but I’m pretty sure my point has been made.
Clinton and Wasserman were working together to circumvent voters choice in order to ensure that Clinton was THE candidate. Unfortunately they gambled with our democracy and lost.
it’s worse than whatever you’re thinking too. the only reason why they were caught is because they were trying to cheat. wikileaks wouldn’t have had anything to leak had they not try to fuck over Bernie.
Superdelegates. They are supposed to make their votes when things are nearly settled. As a collective, they voted for Hillary before the contest even started, which gave people the impression that Hillary was winning.
This is like a judge giving their opinion, before letting jurors discuss their decision.
Superdelegates don’t vote until the convention, potentially they could have still nominated Clinton if Sander’s won the pledged delegates, but it never came up, since he didn’t. Like I’m not contesting that the party establishment favored Clinton, but you can’t say they circumvented the will of the voters when the nominee was the person who won the popular vote.
Throughout the primary, the media counted all the superdelegates as Clinton votes, regardless of their theoretical obligation to vote for whomever won their state’s primary. Voters were relentlessly bombarded with the notion that it was impossible for Sanders to obtain the nomination. Yeah, she got more votes, but like, shit wasn’t fair, man.
All voters fall out of coconut trees.
Yes, the Dems are fatally infected by AIPAC and are best put out of their misery. That said, given the people voted for Trump, they’re unlikely to vote for AOC. She doesn’t appeal to knuckle-draggers.
Trump won mostly because of an apathetic Democrat voter. We don’t need to win over republicans, we need to energize people who didn’t vote.
Yep, 45% of eligible voters stayed home, and exit polling showed a radically different picture of the average american than even most of the people here on leftist sites like Lemmy want to acknowledge.
The average American is tuned out, they don’t care about politics because it’s too complex, too stupid, too controversial and too easy to feel like you’re being lied to. So as a result we had millions and millions of people who voted on grocery prices and egg prices as their primary concern, and said Trump seemed like a “better shot” because the prices seemed bad under Biden and Harris just seemed like more Biden.
They didn’t care about criminal investigations, about character or morality, they didn’t care about Ukraine and they sure as shit didn’t care about Palestine. (Maybe some did, but not in a meaningful way that connected votes to outcomes.) The average american works 6 days a week, spends their one day off taking care of their family and home, and catches a few hours of social media before bed. They read a few memes on facebook and that informs their politics.
Guys, out there in lemmyland, you need to listen to this next part and internalize it. Roll it around under your tongue until you get it: many voters said they would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he ran, but saw Trump as a close contender.
Our nation’s political acumen has been surgically removed. This was by design. The bulk of this country doesn’t hold onto strong political values. They shift and bend with whatever happens, and don’t give a shred of a shit about hypocrisy and consistency.
We do not win this nation with smart, progressive candidates who have educations and experience. We win with characters and celebrity and face-value, direct, dumb messaging. The median voter doesn’t care about outcomes unless it impacts them immediately and noticeably. People may want to be good and do right deep inside their hearts, but at the polls people look at their wallets first, and connect that with the last meme they saw.
We need to be smarter in the background and dumber on stage.
We do not win this nation with smart, progressive candidates who have educations and experience. We win with characters and celebrity and face-value, direct, dumb messaging. The median voter doesn’t care about outcomes unless it impacts them immediately and noticeably. People may want to be good and do right deep inside their hearts, but at the polls people look at their wallets first, and connect that with the last meme they saw.
I agree with this because it confirms my belief that everyone is an idiot.
I agree with this because it confirms my belief that everyone is an idiot.
You’re not at all wrong. And in the words of a great man: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
You can also open a can of worms by deciding to figure out what you’re also an idiot about. I promise it’s never what you think, and it will change you in ways you might not be prepared for.
I just assume I’m an idiot about everything
Same. Not even sure what we’re talking about, but same.
If you do that all the time, but then make a point to learn even a little about the things you know you’re an idiot about… slowly, gradually, something really amazing happens.
The more I learn the dumber I am. Before I was dumb but now I’m dumb and can better quantify it.
I understand the scope of the field and realize I’ll be an idiot forever?
I can’t speak for anybody else, but I for one an a HUGE idiot.
interesting fact: NY 14th district voted for Trump AND for AOC in 2024.
similar split ticket voters can be found across the country.
Trump represented change, violent chaotic change, but change nonetheless. mainstream Dems cannot (will not) offer that. however progressives like AOC at least promise to fight for change.
your point stands still, just worth considering that Trump voters are not a monolith, neither are AOC voters.
what they have in common: they both want CHANGE.
You’ve hit the nail on the head, and I sit and have this and other similar conversations with my brother, and they always boil down to change. And it’s a devil you know kind of argument, but the devil we know (establishment politics) has whittled away at the middle class consistently since it’s explosion in the 1950s. And it’s more than just policy, but down more to things like interpretation of the constitution and separation of powers.
And so we are in for a wild ride, and the smart thing for Democrats to do would be to put up their own candidate who stands to be the antithesis of Trump, and not this amalgamation of populist ideals, but a platform for change across the board. I like AOC for that, but we won’t get that. We will get another establishment Democrat who tries to run on the same policies they just lost on, or whose platform is blanket undoing of Trump policy. The Democrats need to not be an anti-Trump party and instead be an actual progressive party.
For the whole history of democratic primaries, the nominee was always the one that received the most votes. It probably of doesn’t have to be, but it always is. “they” in question are people of America who know more than nothing about how democracy in their country works.
Progressives are going to bitch and moan about how nobody does what they want, but will refuse to participate in the very process designed to ask them what they want.
It’s almost like some idiots on the internet don’t want change, they want to be oppressed.I’ve voted in every Democratic primary since I could vote for Kucinich. State and local, too. When does participation mean they care what I think?
There is a very lovely pattern I see. Every time there is a conversation on the internet, everyone totally always voted and participated and canvassed and run and also fed the homeless at the same time, and every time there are any elections upcomming, there is no end to the constant anti-democracy messages about how voting is pointless and nobody should do that because both sides.
In the end, around 20% of registered voters are voting in democratic primaries, and I repeat my thesis, every time the nominee was the person who got the most votes, every time. So the answer to your question - they already care what you think, and if more people were agreeing with you, then maybe they would do what you want. So far they’re doing what majority of voters wants, and that’s not on the shadowy democratic demons, it’s on majority.
Okay so I’m just never gonna be happy with my government because I’m too weird.
Maybe I should be an independent. Since I’m in a swing state they might actually care what I think.
That’s not how democracy in your country works. And because a bunch of people also don’t know that, you are in that situation.
Unless you learn how it works and will start working on it with this knowledge, you will indeed be unhappy, but it’s nit government’s fault, it’s yours for not educating yourself.You mean like the off-year, primary election ballot I have sitting on my table to be filled out?
I know how this shit works. I’ve been doing what people say to do for 25 years.
When will it start working?
Well, voting in primaries is more than most people are doing already, but it isn’t exactly what I meant.
I am talking more about strategic things people don’t understand. They believe that them throwing out their vote means something other than giving up the power to the conservatives. They believe that giving power to conservatives somehow helps propagating progressive ideas. They believe in magical thinking of “I ticked the box, where is my cookie”. They completely forget about local elections.
Then they say braindead shit like “if I vote third party in a swing state it will help my goal” with no shred of irony.See, I only throw my vote away on primary candidates who lose and Democrats who also lose to republicans.
I also never expect anything for voting, let alone a cookie, because I no longer believe voting works.
And I don’t have to worry about giving republicans power because they just take it anyway since democrats have no cohesion.
Be LOUD. Get in touch. Make it unambiguously clear that we need to pivot radically left.
Of course they will. Either pick them or they’ll send it all to hell. Even now they probably think this Trump stint will make voters desperate for their next candidate.
Captive audience, it’s why they felt so confident cozying up to Republicans like the Cheneys, because what are the left going to do, not vote?
It’s great really, you perpetuate a problem and constantly blame the people trying to actually bring about much needed change for the problem.
many of the DInos benefit from the same donors as the gop, im betting the megadonors at least implied threatening to cut them off if they dont support trump.
I highly recommend reading Ezra Klein’s latest book “Abundance” for a look at why the DNC has been losing the working class. It also offers some optimistic ideas for moving forward.
Writing was on the wall here. Need to get rid of the dinosaurs to have any chance at all.
A lot more people than the DNC are blaming people for not voting Democrat & sticking us with this shithole administration. It was a huge no-brainer.
The democrats are objectively better for the majority of the population. Science has a liberal bias and all that.
What many of the dem leaders and commentors are missing is that’s not enough. Blaming and shaming people online, even if you’re right which as I covered you objectively are, isn’t going to win the election. A lot of people voted for Trump because they feel left out and unheard. Maybe they should be, after all some of them hold dangerous ideas like climate change denial or think giving underrepresented people’s a chance is unfair.
But that’s just not enough. Being right isn’t enough. Pointing out their idiocy only serves to entrench them and scare away moderates. You might say, not voting means they’re dumb, right or wrong that comment doesn’t help your cause. Being objectively correct didn’t win the last election. Until the democrats acknowledge that optics are more import than correctness they’re going to fight an uphill battle. A very steep one.
It’ll be Shapiro or Blinken. Its still all about the $$ at the DNC. Nothing else matters.
Or Newsome
They probably like Newsom even more after he sat down and platformed Bannon and Kirk, as if giving a voice to open and unashamed Nazis isn’t disqualifying.
I really hope not. He’s as corpo as corpo gets.
Yeah I agree. It’s really two flavors of the billionaire supporters and no real second party.
Its never about what the majority wants. Its what minority wants. They are fat satisfied one percenters and the only thing they hate worse than a maga is letting the little people have a choice.
Ah, the classic “Dems would have won if they ran to the left” + “Left-wingers couldn’t have ushered in the fascist; we’re too small to make a difference!”
What sorts of left-wingers are you talking about here?
The performative kind who insisted that they couldn’t vote for Harris even in the spirit of harm reduction in the face of an obvious, outright, blatant fascist with a very clear shot at winning.
Okay, so you don’t think there is anyone that would have been motivated to vote for Harris if she had adopted positions like universal healthcare that isn’t a ‘performative’ left-winger that would never be happy with her?
I think that choosing to let an open, clearly identified fascist win because one of the most progressive platforms in the past 40 years isn’t progressive enough is either a sign of being purely performative in your leftism, wherein what matters is a pseudoreligious devotion to marking up virtue points for the afterlife (rather than actually forestalling harm or establishing conditions for change in the real world), or a sign of being an utter moron.
Those who chose not to vote Harris can pick which they identify as, I won’t dispute whichever of the two labels they choose.
Okay, but it seemed like the point of the comment I initially replied to was that it was contradictory to assume that Harris could have had a better shot at winning by moving to the left, and that the number of people that decidedly don’t vote based on Harris not being progressive enough is insignificant. Do you really think that’s true?
The point of the comment was that it was contradictory to say that Harris lost because she didn’t move left, while simultaneously denying that certain groups of leftists choosing to let the fascist win are at fault for, well, choosing to let the fascist win.
Either the aforementioned leftists aren’t enough to matter, and moving left wouldn’t have saved us; or the aforementioned leftists are enough to matter, and thus are directly responsible, by their inaction, for letting fascism win.
It seems pretty wild to me to assume that there is a trivial number of people that would be motivated to vote based on something like universal healthcare, that isn’t a pseudo religious devotee of performative leftism.
