When I first read this, I felt, “yeah, fuck those guys” But thinking more about it, the elite Russians with actual power already have residency or citizenship in EU. Spies can enter EU without the tourist visa. This might end up just impacting the anti-Z Russians.
Thank you for thinking a bit more than a regular reactionist. This ban will hardly help with EU’s “defense”, and it’s certainly not going to make an ordinary Russian angrier at their government because it’s too fucking expensive to go to EU anyway.
Yeah, some middle-class moskali will cry about it a bit, but above everything else it will make leaving Russia for people in danger more difficult. But yeah, it’s gonna give an illusion that EU finally does something decisive for Ukraine (cough-cough, >4.5 years of the invasion).
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a reactionist, whatever that is.”
It makes it much harder to infiltrate us. Right now our gates are wide open and barbarians are just pouring in.
Barbarians? Are all Russians barbarians? Are the anti Z Russians barbarians?
And are they really pouring in? Are you suffocating from too many Russians? I’m genuinely asking, as I don’t know your experience.
There is an imperial war of aggression happening on European soil at the moment. They are active and constant threats against all of Europe and democracy everywhere. They commit terrorist attacks on us, fund right wing extremism, meddle in elections, make military incursions on and assassinate people on other nations’ soverign soils.
Yes, that country’s borders need to be shut until the conflict is resolved.
Either bots or teenagers in here, I can’t decide.
They’s got Russians under their bed and in their closet right now.
Yeah we literally fucking have Russians performing terrorist attacks on European soil, all over Europe, and fanning dissent and supporting aiding and abetting and funding right wing extremists, and meddle in our elections, and kill people on our sovereign soil.
Are you blind, dumb, or living in a swamp? This is extremely well known and vetted information.
Good. Fuck the russians. My grandparents always said “ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistais.” Which means “a russian is a russian even if you fry them in butter.” They never forgot what the soviets did to our country.
I have a couple Russian friends. They’re good people, hard working, ethical, considerate. Just like I have a few American friends who are good.
YES, there are shitty Russians, and shitty Americans. Hell, there are even shitty Canadians. But hating an entire country because of their government is just bigotry.
Judge people by their actions, not their government.The government alone does not explain everything. There are deep-running cultural differences between Russia and for example Finland. It’s not like Russia would magically change if the government was replaced. Most likely it would eventually go back to being the country it currently is.
Just like the cultural issues in US won’t be fixed by replacing the president.
I guess it’s the same for every country.
Fins are some of the best people on the planet. Russians are some of the worst. The arithmetic isn’t difficult.
Woo I love sweeping generalizations based on who knows what? Like actually, what are you basing that on? Is it the “happiest country on earth” bs? Or the nordic wellfare utopia bs?
I’ll let you in on a secret: You can’t quantify happiness, those studies are bullshit because everybody has a different standard for what happiness even is.
Another newsflash: Our corrupt government is working overtime to wreck and privatize what remains of our wellfare state and they’re cracking down on labor unions. Four currently serving ministers have talked about “the great replacement” on social media. A fifth minister resigned earlier due to ties to actual neonazis being exposed. Our finance minister / vice PM is one of the aforementioned four, and she has in the past written about how she wishes to kill immigrants. These people were all elected by finnish voters, which isn’t all that surprising considering how much racists and other dipshits we have here.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16250.jpeg
I don’t know many russians but the two I’ve gotten to know are nice people. Every country has shitty people in it and every country also has nice people in it.
Yeah, right wing governments funded and supported by Russia do tend to make things worse in democracies all over Europe constantly. What’s your point? Fins are some of the best people on the planet, Russians are some of the worst. I have met plenty of both, and I vehemently stand by it.
Here’s the stats by the way. You are acquainted with statistical prodecures for measuring general sentiment and quality of life right? If you claim some weak ass first year philosophy bullshit about “it’s up for debate ¯\(ツ)/¯” then you don’t have the faintest grasp on this conversation.
It’s quite well documented that the austerity politics of Kokoomus (the current PM party) didn’t come from Russia, but the Confederation of Finnish Industries, which is the big employers union in the country, run by these “some of the best people on the planet” that you keep talking about. These same people are to blame for that graph I posted earlier that you didn’t even address.
I’m quite familiar with the numbers and how they are calculated. It’s headline news every year here. I suspect that it contributes to our scores as well. “Well I live in the happiest country in the world and everybody told me as a kid that it’s like winning the lottery to be born in Finland [a phrase from the 70’s uttered by boomers every now and then], so I guess things are pretty good for me.”.
From that website you linked:
Our happiness ranking is based on a single life evaluation question called the Cantril Ladder:
Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from 0 at the bottom to 10 at the top. The top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. On which step of the ladder would you say you personally feel you stand at this time?
This question is both democratic and universal. Rather than constructing an index from multiple metrics, the Cantril Ladder empowers people to make their own judgements about what matters most, regardless of their culture and background. The question does not mention concepts like happiness, wellbeing, or satisfaction, so it can be easily translated and understood in many different languages.
It’s completely subjective. There’s no way for it to not be completely subjective. The local culture dominates what expectations people set for what’s at the top of the ladder and what’s at the bottom. A frog in a well will say “Eh, I guess I’m doing pretty good” and that’s as accurate a result as can be obtained. I don’t say that the numbers themselves are up for debate. The studies aren’t bad, it’s just that their importance is inflated way past proportion. At best it’s a cultural curiosity.
Edit: Oh yeah and I laughed when I saw the “Perceptions of corruption” part. We have plenty of corruption here. it’s just less overt and instead takes the form of old boy networks, small circles and informal favors.
You’re missing the point! We need these good citizens to help at the least start asking the question of what is happening and why. Yes, there two sides to every story and Russians constantly get presented with a different narrative that what we get in Europe and the Americas. Yes, there could be repercussions for raising certain domestically related questions in Russia. However, this is not a reason to not raise those questions like “Why is all our tourist visas cancelled in the Baltics!? Are we really doing something that could justify this?” This initiative is great for that reason. Heads up for the Overton Window. We must not accept a new normal where waging war on other countries is not a an unacceptable crime that needs the hardest imaginable punishment.
I wasn’t suggesting the visa bans weren’t justified. I was just responding to bigotry in the post I responded to. Hating all Russians just because they live under a sadistic tyrant is no different than hating all Americans for the same reason.
Amen! It’s crazy and dangerous times we live in where there’s no accountability, and no responsibility taken for anything the world leaders do. Putin kind of set the precedence in recent times by just openly invading another country. And Trump has more than caught up openly supporting Putin and Netanyahu. Xi is also doing his best, and these days there’s no political consensus to pressure China to not invade Taiwan. There would basically be no repercussions before it’s too late and the damage done.
Bro if you get attacked by Canada you deny entry to Canadians. What’s not to get?
And you feel good inheriting that hatred? There’s a big difference between the general Russian population (those who will be affected by this ban) and Kremlin.
Let’s be better than our ancestors.
Do you know the kind of generational trauma caused by rape, torture, dispossession and murder? Because that’s what I’ve inherited, and yes, as a result I don’t want anything to do with any russians.
Was it the kremlin who raped, tortured and murdered in Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol and other places in their current war? Or was it “normal” russians?
And where does this cycle of hatred end? Do you think the “normal” Russians (soldiers, prisoners, mercenaries) would do these things, like rape, if they didn’t believe either that you deserved it, or that you are not worthy of compassion? Where does this come from, you think?
And how does this translate to tourists? Do they share this perspective? Why do they travel to countries which they know support “the enemy”?
It ends when they fuck off out of the country they invaded. Until then it’s open season.
Seconded! Whole family for generations suffered under the fucking Russians. And here they come again, like the fucking mongol horde without the charm.
TIL Lemmy doesn’t actually mind xenophobia as long as it’s against Russians.
Would someone PLEASE think of the Russians?!
Of course. They live in a shithole. It’s not their fault where they were born.
You turn the other cheek while I reload my AK, then everybody wins.
Poland and Ukraine also never forgets. And Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, and
Should have been suspended ever since the poisoning of litvinenko.
Or the terrorist attacks. Or funding right wing extremism. Or funding brexit. Or being slimy imperial fascists.
Yep that’s a massive security hole.
