Summary
Former vice presidential nominee Tim Walz criticized Trump for economic chaos while taking personal responsibility for the situation during an MSNBC interview.
“We wouldn’t be in this mess if we’d have won the election — and we didn’t,” Walz told Chris Hayes. He called Trump the “worst possible business executive” and praised the Wall Street Journal’s editorial criticizing Trump’s tariff war.
Walz emphasized Democrats must offer something better, not just criticize Trump. Recently, he acknowledged a leadership void in the Democratic Party and admitted spending too much time combatting Trump’s false claims about immigrants.
No, we’d be “GAmBlIng wItH wOrLd waR THree!”
I disagree Mr. Walz. Had Biden not sat on his hands after being given the power of god by the supreme court - we wouldn’t be in this mess today.
This headline is trash. He’s saying we wouldn’t be in this mess if they’d won. The headline makes it sound like he’s taking much more blame than his actual quote implies.
Imagine Trump, or any other billionaire, saying something like this. Can’t do it? Me neither.
I think this is a half assed acceptance of responsibility. Firstly i don’t believe our democracy even functions anymore. Our entire political system has been compromised by money, bribes, campaign contributions from billionaires. Both the dems and republicans are both fascist parties. The Democratic party any where else in the world by the standards of the rest of the developed world is a center right wing party we have no true left opposition party in the usa. The democrats are clearly a controlled opposition party who’s primary goal is to appease their wall street military and prison industry profiteer donors and prevent any policy shift to the left in order to thwart economic democracy and continue the class dictatorship that is modern neo liberal western “democracy” which is inherently undemocratic.
There are 14 defining traits of fascism and 13 of them are present in both partied albeit to differing degrees. But the one trait that both parties work to maintain s plausible deniability as to its existence is fraudulent elections. But to think that even though money has corrupted every other aspect of our political system that for some reason maybe the ideals of American exceptionalism and the integrity of democracy itself, that one aspect of fascism is a bridge tok far to cross and those with extreme wealth and greed who lack all humanity and show no self Restraint on any given day would at least control themselves there for the good of mankind? If you truly believe that i have a bridge to sell you.
In germany the highest constitutional court decided in the last 10-15 years or so(i don’t remember when exactly) that electronic voting is unconstitutional because it is impossible to differentiate between fraudulent results and legitimate ones for anyone who isn’t a cuber security or IT expert and its important that laymen(or lay people) can understand the results of an election and see the proof for themselves. And even if we put all this aside in 2016 we saw the Iowa caucus (a democratic process void of electronic obfuscation)deliberately manipulated for clinton despite sanders supporters outnumbering clinton supporters 2 to 1 and i remember seeing a video back then(i wish i had saved it) of election workers doing a test on a vote counting/tabulation machine to verify results and the machine completely skewed the inputed data which distressed all the workers participating to the point where 3 people were in tears.
This isnt a “trump was right” statement because those who are nominated by the party are most likely complicit and know who will be chosen and even if they do not know till the media puts out the results and manufactures the consent of the people they still very likely know the reality. And Trump definitely knew in 2016 and had no problem the election was rigged then because it benefited him which means he doesn’t care that the election is rigged so long as he benefits and gains power from it.
But regardless of what i believe it is the reality that every thing about our society is rigged by the ultra wealthy. And it is naive to believe that they would allow the workers the ability to choose who governs them when they regularly make it clear what they think of us. That we are a disposable commodity who’s existence is only a means for their own end. As a labor pool to exploit and wring dry for profit so they don’t have to do any of the things they see as beneath them while they live in opulent luxury and spend more on weekend vacations than you or i could earn in a dozen consecutive lifetimes.
Now in the crazy off chance that our democracy actually does function (which is just impossible given the way the world is currently run by the .001%) then the democrats lost because they refuse to move to the left and they intentionally lost because their donors are the dame donors funding the republicans and democrats are under orders to sabotage any leftist populist candidates to maintain the class dictatorship that their billionaire owners have established and aim to maintain at all costs.
Now let the butthurt neo liberal downvotes ensue.
Props to him for taking ownership of it. It means a lot even if it isn’t fully his fault.
You played it too safe and used your son as a prop
So it seems like it’s going to come down between Gavin The Transphobe and Tim Walz for 2028, and honestly Tim Walz is who I learn more towards, dude feels like a second coming of Bernie.
Meanwhile Gavin started out in 2025 being the strong man who stared Trump down, but he not only folded, he sold out transpeople.
Anyone who carries water for the “Transpeople are crazy and giving them basic human rights is going too far” is a danger to us all
So many copers in this thread. I hate to break it you guys but Trump was always going to win that election based off the economy, the cover up of Biden’s obvious senility and the bit no one wants to talk about - that the Democratic candidate was a Black woman. There is no alternative timeline in which Harris runs on a utopian fantasy land progressive policy agenda and defeats Trump.
Because Biden and Harris shouldn’t even have been the candidates in 2020…
i want walz and aoc in 2028
we don’t blame you tim we love you ❤️
I don’t love him, I don’t even know the guy and politicians are generally horrible enough people to give me pause.
He DID seem to have the only decent angle of attack with the “weird” stuff so that looks good at least.
DNC will never let it happen.
Not you walz but the Democratic party. Send out 19 billion to Israel while our kids were hungry in school.
Tim signed the bill that guaranteed free breakfast and lunch for every K-12 student in Minnesota public schools. No needs-testing, no “lunch debt”…just free healthy food for children.
So true. The republicans are clearly better.
Did I say it anywhere that Republicans are better?
So the answer is to keep slowly sliding into fascism with the ‘slightly less evil’ party, rather than forcing their hand in the hope of democratic reforms which stop the slide?
The system is absolutely rigged and there are no winners. Americans are never gonna pull a france and pull out the guillotines. They hardly even protest. And when they do it’s because they want cheap eggs, gas or bot wearing masks. Or when a new iphone is out, then they have enough free time to camp on the street for a week.
Yeah yeah, continue giving excuses to the Democrats for not being as bad as the Republicans. They’re lucky they have supporters like you who will just take whatever bullshit they give out whenever they try and emulate the Republicans. Clearly you’re not satisfied with how right leaning the political system in America already is, you want them to go all the way. Considering how spineless their supporters are in making them shift their policies, I can see why they think it’s completely fine for them to offer mediocrity in the face of fascism.
Blue MAGA. That’s all they are.
Thank God Trump won, because now we get… checks notes… Mar-a-Gaza!?
Thank god for your hindsight, without you we’d never realize what Trump is doing!
Like as if Biden did not find Israel. 19 billion dollar of our money As a Democrat, I expected Biden to do better. We already know trump is crap. One worse does not make another one good. Both parties are bad. United States is doomed with just two parties. I don’t want any of these two parties. What’s you take?
If you want to win my vote and many others, know your base well democrats. We are not here to elect the least worse, we are here to elect the best out there for this nation. And don’t come btching here because u guys literally are the one that said our vote does not count before the election. may be it suddenly does? See ya in 2028. Hope u learn some lesson.
All the democrats had to do was field a white male opponent against Trump who can be charming and give good speeches. Instead they put up a biracial woman, who the fuck amongst the democrats thought that America was ready for a biracial woman president, like did they do zero pooling to figure out what the people wanted, aren’t politicians supposed to know the pulse of the nation, it’s literally their job to serve the citizens of the country. They should have made Bernie or even Walz the presidential candidate and Kamal could have been the VP
I think spurning the Arab American vote in swing states, to secure the Israeli vote in a solid blue state had a lot to do with it…
All the democrats had to do was field a white male opponent against Trump who can be charming and give good speeches. Instead they put up a biracial woman
she was literally the previous VP, about the best pick you’re going to get, especially from a functional party, as much as people will tell you the biden admin didn’t do shit, it’s one of the more productive admins, in a long time.
The “she lost because she’s a woman of color” talking point is just an excuse to shut out AOC in 2028.
You think voters can’t be sexist or racist?
I think they can be both. They’re called republicans and appealing to them is why harris lost.
I don’t think they’re as prevalent as democrats are making them out to be. And I think that they’re overstating the problem as an excuse to shut out AOC.
Yup.
It’s so obvious the democratic party lied about Biden to get through the nomination phase and used the fact that the money already donated for the campaign was specifically to Biden or Harris and would not have easily been given over to any other new candidate. You do have to wonder, especially after how Trump was greeted by them, just what actually happened here. The fact is that the truth about Bidens condition should have been known, he should have decided not to run, and the Democratic party should’ve had a real primary for real candidates and new ideas. Tim Walz was as bad of a VP pick as Tim Kaine. The white guy as VP to shore up the right wing vote is a total myth. Biden was kind of the first one, then Tim Kaine, then Tim Walz. It just doesn’t work. Neither will Newsoms podcast attempt at finding common ground which he hopes will translate into moderate votes. Democrats really have no clue just how bad things are about to get…
Gavin’s going to run more Diet Republican than any Democrat ever before and that’s going to make even my “Blue, no matter who!” ass not vote for him. I’m already thinking about staying home in '28 because Trump can’t win a third time and Gavin’s a transphobe.
the truth about Bidens condition should have been known
It was known, and lots of us were shouting from the rooftops about it, But Democrats and liberals did everything they could to shut us up, accuse us of being Russian bots, accuse us of helping to get Trump elected, when it was liberals that got Trump elected by ignoring the people that saw every single sign
It didn’t help that the New York Times and other media outlets were all in on talking shit about Biden, and that undermined their credibility on the age issue. It was only after Biden’s disastrous showing at his debate with Trump that the average voter had any credible evidence of his decline.
There was evidence. There are tons of videos of Biden speaking in the 80s and 90s. Compare any of those videos to hin speaking in 2021, 2022, or 2023 and you could very easily tell that his mind had become a pale shadow of what it once was.
All we needed to do was take off their rose colored glasses. The evidence was plainly in view for everyone to see.
It’s so obvious the democratic party lied about Biden to get through the nomination phase and used the fact that the money already donated for the campaign was specifically to Biden or Harris and would not have easily been given over to any other new candidate.
the argument for this one is that the super pac was biden/harris, not any other random person, so it’s questionable whether they would’ve been able to use super pac funding at all especially at such short notice, given the technicalities of super pac funding. The majority of DNC funding, sure, but super pacs are most of the money in elections these days.
And every time you point this shit out, people will stick their fingers in their ears and say:
You had a primary and we all picked Biden!
Ignore that the 2016, 2020, and 2024 primaries were effectively just for show! Ignore that they argued in court they have no reason to follow democratic policies in their primaries!
Ignore the evidence that the media hated outsiders that threatened their bank accounts and loved the ones that increased them!
Turn off your brain and cut out your tongue, vote blue no matter who we pick for you!
Ignore that the 2016, 2020, and 2024 primaries were effectively just for show! Ignore that they argued in court they have no reason to follow democratic policies in their primaries!
the law literally says they don’t have to lmao, go take that up with the DNC or something.
Yeah, everyone keeps bringing this up like it’s some kind of dunk, but the DNC can basically run things as they please. Don’t like it? Start another party. The party’s procedure goes back a few decades by now. People act like when Biden dropped out they did this crazy double secret turbo maneuver but the fact is the DNC can put forth whomever they want.
literally, it’s how this works, go bitch at the DNC or get legislators to do something about it lmao.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Newsom pulls a Tulsi Gabbard and switches sides. He had Charlie Kirk (of TPUSA) on his podcast where he “completely aligned” with him on trans rights (i.e. eradicating us), then had Steve Bannon on. That’s a bit much even for the Liz Cheney flank of the DNC.
I suspect Newsom doesn’t see any future for his party, and is bailing out instead.
I’ve been wondering if there’s a gas leak at Newsom’s house. The hell happened to him?
That’s EXACTLY what I’m expecting, when he stood up to Trump I thought he’d be alright, but the dude has basically been courting the Far Right and going all in on being as transphobic as possible.
He’ll run the sadly profitable “I was on the Left peacefully drinking Kombucha and eating Avocado Toast like the next pink pussyhat wearing hippie, but then they went too far when they tried to tell me the Holocaust actually happened! They’ve gone completely nuts!” grift.
In my experience, the higher up you go in both parties, you tend to sort of arrive at the same places with the same people… and most importantly, the same donors and the same money machine. That’s the great thing about the U.S. dollar really, corruption and selling Govt from Citizens United to today sort of drives the bipartisan nature of it because it all greases the wheels of the two party political machine.
I’ve listened to several episodes of his podcast… I’ll probably continue listening but in the first episode Newsom basically kept saying he only got into college because his scores were low and he played baseball. Then he kept backing down to Charlie Kirk, Bannon, etc, while constantly saying he doesn’t know what to do and kept asking them for ideas. In the first episode, there was a moment where he said Jesus Fucking Christ or something to Charlie Kirk, which called him out on it. It’s like, the very voters he’s trying to go after will hear that and stop at the first episode. He will gain no allies on the right as he abandons the party he is supposed to believe in, along with the core values he is supposed to defend. He thinks having a podcast with right wing guests where he gets sort of transactional on the issues. Like, do you think giving up the trans in sports debate is going to win you anything when their entire side would like to see gay marriage go away entirely? While you claim to still even support that? Do these people even think any of this through?
If Newsoms approach is the best the Democrats have to offer, then it might be game over for a very long time…
Newsom is an amazing combination of a spineless coward and a heartless monster that if he’s the Democratic Candidate, it might be the first year I don’t vote. I will NEVER willingly put a transphobe in the White House.
Tim “Expand Israel’s Borders” Walz opinion doesn’t mean anything to me, tbh.
Honestly believe Harris had a way better chance of winning without him, with a more progressive VP.
You do know there will never be a perfect candidate, right?
Asking for one that isn’t a genocidal maniac shouldn’t be the impossible bar that you consider perfect.
I don’t know about you people, but I’m not a genocidal person, I don’t think genocide is a good thing, and I don’t believe a cult of fascists have a divine right to kill the brown people.
I don’t think it’s that big of an ask to have at least one candidate that believes the same as me in this very common notion.
If you’re an American, whether you like it or not, you participate in genocide. Every aspect of living in this country causes harm to someone else. Our tax dollars kill, mutilate and destroy yet we all are compelled to pay them.
I’m not a genocidal maniac either, and that’s why I abstained. To teach the DNC that they need to respect us leftists, and if they don’t appeal to us, we’ll let Trump in. And look what’s happened now. Walz has apologised, they took genocide off the platform, and Kamala is going to impeach Trump any day now. We saved democracy!
I’m glad you can support genocide and say it’s the only way to prevent genocide.
I don’t believe that’s the case and I never will.
We are fundamentally different species, divided on that thought; whether crossing an uncrossable line is okay to theoretically save yourself.
I will never be sorry for not supporting genocide, as you will never be sorry for supporting it. Neither of us will change each others minds, we can only hope that only one of our species survived this admin and the rise of the far right.
I don’t support genocide. I’m a proud Marxist-Leninist who will never vote Democrat, because I care about Gaza. And I’m not going to throw Gaza under the bus. Not for Ukraine, not for trans people, not even for the West Bank. I’ll never cross the line no matter how high the consequences are.
So, you are opposed to Russia’s attempt to do a genocide in Ukraine, and second time, right?
Yes, and I believe that I’ve helped saved Ukraine by letting Trump win. We taught the democrats a lesson, and tomorrow morning they’re going to impeach Trump and restore aid to Ukraine, because they realised they were all stupid when I didn’t vote for them.
yknow, i’m starting to realize that i think i respect the people of russia, and china, specifically those in the military, and government more than pro palestine people support/respect israelis, and im not sure how i feel about that one.
The Israeli public, at least 60-68% of it consistently supports genocide, even as they are direct witnesses and for the most part due to mandatory IDF enlistment, participate in it.
Most people in Russia hate their government and military, beyond some basic notion that they should be the toughest because they’re Russian. Most people in China, especially the military, have nothing to do with any alleged genocide.
But the Israeli public is different. That is why they get less respect.
The Nazis were popular in Germany for a time, the Israeli government is no different at the moment. Both populations should not be respected even a little, given they have largely chosen and supported attrocities.
The Israeli public, at least 60-68% of it consistently supports genocide, even as they are direct witnesses and for the most part due to mandatory IDF enlistment, participate in it.
Is this stat literally “do you support genocide: Yes, No” or are we talking, it’s not listed as genocide, but we’re calling it genocide because that’s the term we’ve decided to use? There’s a large semantic difference here, and you’re making it sound like they literally support genocide.
Most people in Russia hate their government and military, beyond some basic notion that they should be the toughest because they’re Russian. Most people in China, especially the military, have nothing to do with any alleged genocide.
and yet, those governments persist, even though the war in Ukraine bolsters the support of Putin in an election, where 80% of the population votes for him semi regularly, surely that population doesn’t support the genocide of the Ukrainian people? Or maybe it does, and we’re just ignoring it because it’s politically convenient. I could say the same about the Chinese government, but Chinese society is a little bit more complicated, and it’s not quite as directly influenced since most of the human rights abuses are, well, not war.
But the Israeli public is different. That is why they get less respect.
are they though? I would like to compare this specifically to the war against Ukraine, because it’s a particularly apt example.
The Nazis were popular in Germany for a time, the Israeli government is no different at the moment. Both populations should not be respected even a little, given they have largely chosen and supported atrocities.
Last i heard, the current Israeli government ISN’T popular, that’s why the far right is pushing the government further against Palestine, pushing BB into a bit of a rock and a hard place situation, because if he doesn’t he’s not likely to stay in the government for very long, and either get replaced by someone further on the right, or more popular among the public (due to an election)
In fact, if we’re judging the level of atrocity by human casualties alone, the Ukraine war is FAR worse. We’re talking in the range of 200k Russian citizens killed, some incarcerated, some enlisted, some contract. Plus the numerous Ukrainian civilians murdered for no reason. And the relatively comparable Ukrainian military numbers as well. In total we’re talking about like 300-500k people in some capacity being severely affected for the rest of their life. Most of them Russian conscripts, most of whom are ethnic minorities (because that’s why the war is popular in Russia)
“surely, it couldn’t be me who is wrong, because i’m correct, and i’ve never been wrong, surely it must be EVERYONE living in israel currently AND everyone who supports them, as defined by my schizo statistics that im pulling out of my ass and misconstruing heavily to make a point. How could i possibly be wrong?” - not a single person on lemmy, because nobody has self awareness for some reason.
The UN says its genocide. The icc says it’s close enough to genocide for the Israeli government to be arrested, every non Israeli historian with a specialty in genocide says its genocide.
And yes, the questions have been “do you support the governments actions against Gaza and the Palestinian people”, and yes those actions are known to be genocide by the people that carried them out, i.e. the general public in Israel thanks to mandatory IDF service.
There used to be 2 million people in Gaza. There’s now at most 1.2 million by most outside estimates. Deaths stopped being counted when all the hospitals, and that’s not an exaggeration, were bombed in Gaza. So no one has been counting the dead.
You don’t get to say Ukraine has it worse, because they don’t. Objectively. No part of their experience is pleasant, but it’s simply incomparably better.
The UN says its genocide. The ICC says it’s close enough to genocide for the Israeli government to be arrested, every non Israeli historian with a specialty in genocide says its genocide.
IDK about the UN personally, because people have only ever sent me articles about the UN discussion how it “could be genocide” rather than how it is, or they simply point to UN law and go “look it meets the broad definition they supplied, that hasn’t been legally scrutinized yet” If they do have an official statement on it, then i guess i just haven’t seen it until now, because I’m not aware of one. The ICC specifically, I’m aware has arrest warrants for various war crimes, genocide is not listed among any of them, and AFAIK has not been attached since then, could be wrong on that one though, IK a lot of people point to the ICJ, but the ICJ literally refutes that claim themselves, they have stated that it could be “subject to conditions that would create a genocide” which is a rough paraphrasing, but as far as i know that’s the most official statement they’ve made.
Sort of irrelevant, but another question I’ve been curious about is how many countries actually care enough to call it genocide, and i think that’s up to two now? South Africa, obviously, and i think turkey? I’d have to check, both consider it a genocide. I don’t know about any other countries, it’s kind of an arcane thing to search for anyway. I know a lot of members of parliament have stated their concern, but those are representatives, and they can say basically anything.
And yes, the questions have been “do you support the governments actions against Gaza and the Palestinian people”,
ah interesting, so the question wasn’t literally “is this genocide” and to be fair, i was being a little harsh on that one, but i think it’s fair given the extent of the accusation being levied. Realistically, this is because both countries seem to hate each other, and haven’t stopped hating each other for about 70 years now. Last i checked the middle east generally isn’t very kind about these sorts of spats, they usually tend to do what they’re doing right now. At least, in recent history, among recent conflicts.
There used to be 2 million people in Gaza. There’s now at most 1.2 million by most outside estimates. Deaths stopped being counted when all the hospitals, and that’s not an exaggeration, were bombed in Gaza. So no one has been counting the dead.
this is definitely a huge problem, frankly not sure why this is even a thing that’s happening (people not being allowed to leave, that’s a pretty substantial problem) it’s extremely difficult to justify that kind of action, and i don’t want to say it’s expected, but given the length of the conflict, and the history behind it, I’m hesitant to say it’s also unexpected. Palestine hasn’t exactly been the most cordial negotiator throughout this, and neither has Israel. It’s sort of like the two worst people in the world, having a stand off. It’s just not going to end well.
You don’t get to say Ukraine has it worse, because they don’t. Objectively. No part of their experience is pleasant, but it’s simply incomparably better.
a lot of it is definitely better, but a lot of it is also very similar. It’s just interesting to me that so many people seem to care so deeply about the Palestine issue, but barely anybody seems to even think about Ukraine at all these days. There are or were, maybe all of them were bots lmao, that seemed to be so heavily indebted into the side of Palestine that I’m not sure how they managed to be a functional person outside of that belief. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to tell you that a one state solution is simply, not going to work. Two state isn’t perfect, but it’s certainly better. Arguably the best possible result.
honestly, if walz had been managed competently, I think he’d have been a pretty good folksy VP candidate. especially if he’d kept up on the ‘weeeeird’ stuff.
harris was just a terrible idea, and she didn’t even push her strengths. it’s like she, and the people who put her there, were all trying to lose.
The “Weeeeird” stuff would have knocked Trump right out of the park.
without the genocide and harris’ being simultaneously a woman of color (alienating fascists), a cop (alienating anyone with a conscience), and an arrogant symbol of the establishment that let it get so bad? yeah, fine red mist. it was a really good strategy. and they just stopped it, probably because a wealthy donor said it made them uncomfortable.
The correct answer to that is “It bothers Trump and Trump makes Americans uncomfortable.”
