picking either randomly, and acknowledging “language limits”. (laypeople way to say “grammatical gender does not necessarily coincide with social gender”)
picking both and using them randomly
triggering gender agreement with some additional word, e.g. “la persona no binaria” will always use -a since it agrees with “persona” (person)
Note however that they work in a really different way, more like noun declensions than like noun classes=gender. For example, you don’t trigger agreement; even if you were to replace an -ar verb with an -er or -ir verb, the rest of the sentence stays the same.
I wonder whether linguists and others will gradually adopt calling them noun classes instead of genders.
I hope so. It would also help when explaining the grammar of a few languages to laypeople. Such as the Bantu ones - people treat their noun classes as if they were something completely alien, even when they speak a language with M/F noun classes.
Spaniard here, you pretty much nailed it. -x makes no sense as it breaks like every rule about the Spanish language so I’ve never heard it outside of Americans trying to be correct. -@ works, but we pronounce @ as [aˈro.βa] so most would just pronounce it like a normal -a instead. -e seems the best to me but I don’t think I’ve ever seen that one before.
Another thing is that most Hispanics don’t think of gender in the same way that Anglos would, as its more ingrained in our language. Of course he have non-binary people here, but its just not as prevalent of an issue. At least that’s my experience in Spain
i’m not a spanish speaker but christ -e just seems so obviously the best choice, it looks normal and seems to fit as well into the language as you can expect a new not 100% organic thing to do.
It sounds well in Portuguese too. Perhaps even more - because unlike in Spanish people tend to shorten and reduce vowels in non-stressed positions, so depending on the dialect and speed you don’t even notice that -e instead of -a or -o.
Yeah it just makes sense. Saying something like amigxs instead of amigos completely butchers the pronunciation. It would be pronounced something like ameeg-ek-eese but also the accentuated syllable would move from the i to the a. At least I think so, having that many consonants together is literally impossible in Spanish lol
-x makes no sense as it breaks like every rule about the Spanish language
But every single change does that?
Over here in Germany conservatives keep yelling about similar efforts. As it stands, the most popular gender inclusive variant for referring to a group of people has become “[masuline form]*innen”
Take the word “student” for instance
Student - singular, male
Studentin - singular, female
Studenten - multiple male students OR multiple male and female students
Studentinnen - multiple female students
Since the generic masculine doesn’t acknowledge non-binary or female people, the following variant has started to spread:
Student*innen - multiple students of ambiguous gender
When talking, you can differentiate it from the term “Studentinnen” by replacing the * with a short break. You’d basically say “Student…innen”.
Neither the *, nor this break is adhering to any established rules. But the main - or only - reason reactionaries oppose it is because they don’t want to acknowledge non-binary people.
Well that’s pretty much how Spanish works. We have estudiante but that normally ends with -e so we’ll use alumno as an example:
El alumno - single masculine
La alumna - single feminine
Los alumnos - multiple masculine or mixed group. As long as there’s at least one guy its masculine
Las alumnas - multiple feminine
So saying something like Les alumnes (seems like French lol) can sound more neutral than Los alumnos despite not being officially correct because los has an implied masculine connotation
Stuff that I’ve seen from people addressing this:
The -@ and -x things don’t work well when spoken.
I wonder whether linguists and others will gradually adopt calling them noun classes instead of genders.
I have a harder time believing we’d adopt a new term to supplant “gender” for human social roles, but stranger things have happened.
Especially in Spanish where “verb classes” already exist and have distinct, if subtle, rules (-ar, -er and -ir)
Don’t they call it “conjugations” in Spanish too?
Note however that they work in a really different way, more like noun declensions than like noun classes=gender. For example, you don’t trigger agreement; even if you were to replace an -ar verb with an -er or -ir verb, the rest of the sentence stays the same.
I hope so. It would also help when explaining the grammar of a few languages to laypeople. Such as the Bantu ones - people treat their noun classes as if they were something completely alien, even when they speak a language with M/F noun classes.
Spaniard here, you pretty much nailed it. -x makes no sense as it breaks like every rule about the Spanish language so I’ve never heard it outside of Americans trying to be correct. -@ works, but we pronounce @ as [aˈro.βa] so most would just pronounce it like a normal -a instead. -e seems the best to me but I don’t think I’ve ever seen that one before.
Another thing is that most Hispanics don’t think of gender in the same way that Anglos would, as its more ingrained in our language. Of course he have non-binary people here, but its just not as prevalent of an issue. At least that’s my experience in Spain
i’m not a spanish speaker but christ -e just seems so obviously the best choice, it looks normal and seems to fit as well into the language as you can expect a new not 100% organic thing to do.
It sounds well in Portuguese too. Perhaps even more - because unlike in Spanish people tend to shorten and reduce vowels in non-stressed positions, so depending on the dialect and speed you don’t even notice that -e instead of -a or -o.
Yeah it just makes sense. Saying something like amigxs instead of amigos completely butchers the pronunciation. It would be pronounced something like ameeg-ek-eese but also the accentuated syllable would move from the i to the a. At least I think so, having that many consonants together is literally impossible in Spanish lol
meanwhile “amiges” looks broadly fine, could pass for being a weird dialect.
But every single change does that?
Over here in Germany conservatives keep yelling about similar efforts. As it stands, the most popular gender inclusive variant for referring to a group of people has become “[masuline form]*innen”
Take the word “student” for instance
Since the generic masculine doesn’t acknowledge non-binary or female people, the following variant has started to spread:
When talking, you can differentiate it from the term “Studentinnen” by replacing the * with a short break. You’d basically say “Student…innen”.
Neither the *, nor this break is adhering to any established rules. But the main - or only - reason reactionaries oppose it is because they don’t want to acknowledge non-binary people.
Well that’s pretty much how Spanish works. We have estudiante but that normally ends with -e so we’ll use alumno as an example:
El alumno - single masculine
La alumna - single feminine
Los alumnos - multiple masculine or mixed group. As long as there’s at least one guy its masculine
Las alumnas - multiple feminine
So saying something like Les alumnes (seems like French lol) can sound more neutral than Los alumnos despite not being officially correct because los has an implied masculine connotation