or eggs or other insect parts
Depends who you ask. I know a guy who’s vegan because he likes animals. I asked him about honey and he said “fuck insects”.
But opinion differs because bees are pretty much free to go about their lives and we just steal the honey every now and then. It’s not hurting them and not keeping them confined, so…
Others put the line at no hurting animals ever. I don’t ask about fleas or mosquitos or tapeworms though.
bees are pretty much free to go about their lives and we just steal the honey every now and then. It’s not hurting them
I don’t think this is entirely true. Honey bees are basically factory farmed, we don’t just go into the woods and steal honey. They are ecologically problematic as they compete with native bee species. I’m not an expert but look up how bees are being exploited for almond pollination in California for instance.
That’s a valid position, but it applies equally to most kinds of land use. Agave plantations are not less ecologically problematic. Agriculture has an impact.
And animal agriculture uses even more land than eating plants directly. We have to eat something to survive and eating plants has the least impact.
For most animals yes, but bees (the topic at hand) are different because their land use overlaps with other kinds rather than displacing it. The competition with native insects is a real problem but not necessarily more of a problem than honey alternatives.
My understanding is most do but it’s the subject of occasional controversy.
I am vegan, because I want to minimize animal suffering. if insects have the ability to suffer is highly debated. honestly I think they could just be different enough for us to not recognize their intelligence, like we do/did with fish. I will eat honey when offered, but would not buy my own. tldr: I wouldnt reject it. but I would also not but it myself.
I’m not vegan or even vegetarian, but I respect this. I’m doing the same thing with meat now. I don’t reject it (and really enjoy it), but I don’t buy it myself so everything we make at home is vegetarian! I’m working on it.
and thats all everyone should do. working on it and keeping it in mind. I think we (also me until some years ago) consume mindlessly.
Most reject honey. There are those who don’t and there are vegans who want to strictly deny that label to those who don’t.
Eggs? That’s pretty universally rejected.
not all vegans are the same but personally i use agave over honey
One’s an excess product that we’re literally allowed by the animal to take, the other’s a food source for an endangered species of bat
You should reconsider
Bees can’t give consent
Tell me you know nothing about beekeeping…
They literally only take honey that the bees don’t need. If the bees lose enough honey for it to hurt them, then guess what? They can’t continue to grow and keep making honey. If bees had an actual problem with it, they wouldn’t be so chill about it either
Meanwhile bats have no way of making agave. It’s just there, and then when we harvest it, there’s just gonna be less for them to have. That’s the difference
There’s no need to be confrontational !
They literally only take honey that the bees don’t need.
Bees still can’t give consent, lol
the plants you eat didn’t give consent either. nor did the spider you killed. so sit down and shut up.
Vegans are not a monolith. Some do, some don’t. The decision generally comes down to their motivations & their education level.
Since ethical honey sourcing is actively good for both bees and local ecosystem, many vegans will consume ethically sourced honey. As opposed to meat where even the most ethical forms still involve the death of an animal.
Besides that many vegans view it as their ‘cheat’ option to curb their cravings. But also, there is very little reason to consume honey vs raw sugar, the flavor is similar especially once mixed into other food items. So some cut it simply because it is easy to cut.
I believe insects can suffer too so yes
walking or driving must be paralyzing for you.
Maybe but honey is far more humane than eggs.
Depend on the eggs. Farm ? Yes, most of them are unethical. Home chicken ? Not unethical, if there are no roosters.
What makes it unethical if there’s a rooster?
It has been fertilized so, if you are vegan, might qualify as murder because th egg is technically viable. No rooster, no fertilisation, no murder : ethical in principle because you can’t stop a hen from laying eggs.
The hens I’ve met abandons most of their eggs, for most of the year. If the hen abandons the egg, it won’t grow or hatch regardless of fertilization, so as long as you only take the abandoned eggs, a rooster makes no difference in the ethics of eating those eggs.
The difference is that what I’ve heard a flock usually does better and feels better with a rooster (this may be propaganda from Big Rooster), and if you don’t interrupt the nesting process (I dont know the English word for it, when the hen lays on the eggs until they hatch?), you’ll keep putting more of the birds into the world which may not be ethical according to the person.
So positives and negatives, but no difference in the abandoned eggs.
Used to be vegan for 5ish years.
It is a grey area and personal preference. Are you vegan for morality, health, global sustainability, etc…
It depends why someone is vegan (diet, not movement).
I was vegan for health reasons, and local honey helps with allergies so I ate it.
and local honey helps with allergies so I ate it.
I don’t think this can be true, to be honest
Yeah, wasn’t too sure about this one. But allergies have been getting worse every year and there is no harm in trying it. Also, it does make sense on a superficial level, bees pollinate and make honey. So eating honey builds up your immunity to the pollen bees carry?
I am not a bee guy, just a guy that doesn’t like allergies.
I totally see how the conjecture can feel intuitive, yeah. That’s probably why it’s spread.
I feel you on the allergies, I suffer from them too.
According to Wikipedia, honey does have anti-bacterial properties but can also cause allegic reactions depending on the immune system.
I’m thinking it could loosely help with inflammatory responses, maybe? But that may be a stretch and it’s definitely a case by case basis regardless.
I think the conjecture is that it’s supposed to contain local pollens, and hence be somewhat similar to hyposensitization, where you subject the body to the allergen in controlled doses to successively lessen the allergy response.
Honeybees don’t drink from the kinds of plants that people are typically allergic to, however - they drink from flowering plants, while the common allergies are from wind-borne pollens (trees and grasses).
Even then, the dosage is not right for provoking a hyposensitization response.
See https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/honey
