This will come as no surprise to any one given they are a .ml account, but now that they are attempting to discourage people from voting, they revealed their true face.
Edit: only now seeing they also post links to x.com still. I liked their content because I am anti genocide too, but it’s clear there’s a big the_donald vibe there.
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kingofras this isn’t !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works. This is PTB, you keep not following rule 0, at this point it’s BPR.
!manufacturingconsent@lemmy.ml is a /c/ to discuss haw people manufacture consent, positive or negative. It’s about discovering how we are not immune to propaganda, and how many easily fall for it.make a !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world 🧵 if you’re serious about discussing a Texan election. This instance is anti electoralism, because we comprehend demagoguery. Americans, more than 80%, don’t.
I’m tired of shitlibs complaining that everyone isn’t supporting vote blue no matter who and pushing electorialism.
Lol hello this is exactly the type of thing I was warning about recently.
We say the same thing all the time and every few years they act shocked and pretend we’re all Russian bots.
So much this!! Happens every election and is very annoying.
It’s really sad how Liberal racists like OP think they can shame others into supporting their pro-genocide agenda, and go on a whine parade after getting shut down. And how normalized their behavior is around the internet.
The name of the community is literally “manufacturing consent,” and you’re arguing in favor of consenting to genocide. You’re the exact kind of reason the community exists in the first place
OPs complete lack of self-awareness is amazing, right? I count this as the third attack against a leftist comm on LW in eight days. I guess the MOG right-wingers are getting agitated, lol. How about the DNC stops standing up pro-genocide candidates, then we might be able to get along.
Tis the season!
How is encouraging people to vote the same as manufacturing consent?
Encouraging people to vote for people who support genocide is manufacturing consent for genocide
I’m encouraging people to vote. That’s it. Nothing to do with genocide.
And to avoid this from going too long, I’ve had a bit of a side discussion with geneva after this, and after asking multiple times, it’s pretty obvious they are a closet trump supporter, which is incredibly insincere, considering they are using the Palestinian genocide to do it.
No, it’s not obvious, at all. It’s just a wild, unsupported, bad faith accusation. None of the examples you provided do anything but make you look clueless about the whole topic. Minimizing the genocide in the way you are doing as though it’s just a niche side issue after you deal with Trump, is exactly the sort of thing that gets principled people offside.
I think trump is a disgusting piece of human filth. I also think America is the biggest threat to humanity in general. Trump is rapidly sinking American soft and hard power, and showing the world americas true colors.
He’s accidentally a great man of history, lol.
Idr why, but I also came to a similar conclusion about that user (like over a year ago I think). Though they might just be an accelerationist.
You did specifically say “vote against Ken Paxton,” and the only options for that are a rightwing libertarian, and someone whose official policy position is “Israel has the right to defend its people,” which is a straight up dogwhistle at this point
My comments were removed and I was banned (again) for pointing out that Talarico went on to say that Netanyahu doesn’t have a right to wage war on civilians, that the violence in Gaza needs to end, that we should support Palestine as much as we can, and we should come to a two-state solution that gives Palestinians self-determinance.
Just to as an addition I did ban OP but I did not ban you.
I generally only start banning turbolibs when they start insulting people.
Your ban was from a .ml admin who don’t want Liberals on the server preaching their Liberalism. (based tbh).
and we should come to a two-state solution that gives Palestinians self-determinance.
Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine not an ethnostate next to them.
Palestinians have the right to all of Palestine not an ethnostate next to them.
The solution being…?
Like I said, the solution is that Palestinians get all the land and all the property on it. This is pretty easy no?
Like where do you think all the French people colonizing Algeria went? Hint: back to France.
The difference between us is that I don’t care at all what happens to the colonizers. My worry is about the colonized and how they can be compensated for their oppression.
The difference between us is that I don’t care at all what happens to the colonizers.
I think the difference between us is that I realize that’s a completely untenable policy stance for an American political campaign. “Kick all the Jews out of a country” is not a good look politically, regardless of the moral correctness.
"Kick all the Jews out of a country
I said colonists not Jews but let me reiterate I fully support your ban by the admins of my instance and I wish I had banned you myself.
Then what was the point of comparing things to French Algeria? I feel the same way about the colonizers but I sincerely do not understand what your suggested solution is. If a two-state solution is Zionism, what does that leave besides the dissolution of the state of Israel?
Congrats, you figured it out.
A small but unfortunate side effect of the ongoing genocide in Palestine is that it’s given a legitimate cause to people who were previously (and still) cheerleading the attack on Ukraine, etc.
Also, this particular account (geneva) is fairly anti-semitic - eg. refusing to distinguish between jews and zionists.
The usual tankie shit.
100% agree with you about geneva_convenience’s tendency to conflate judaism with zionism. But there’s absolutely nothing wrong with calling out democrat (or any other) candidates who are soft on zionism. We need more, not less of that.
I agree, however, Geneva does the same every election cycle. I first saw them do it with AOC. This is voter discouragement and very well timed too. Never-hillary got us trump in the first place.
Aside from that, in the last 24h I’ve established that several of their .ml communities are designed as echo chambers to promote a very radical agenda and that they most likely don’t even care about zionism or the palestinian genocide. They just want to keep trump in power. And that’s fine, it’s a free world, but that they are cloack and dagger about it and allow this level of mod behaviour is pretty fucked up.
Hilary supported the trump primary run
Hilary got us trump
Never-hillary got us trump in the first place.
No, Hillary being an unpopular candidate, that ran on terrible policies, after Obama screwing over his voting base is what got us Trump the first time.
…a very radical agenda…
So being against genocide is a “radical agenda”?
…they most likely don’t even care about zionism or the palestinian genocide.
Do you have any evidence of this?
They just want to keep trump in power.
Ah yes, it couldn’t possibly be that they want both the pro-genocide parties to lose. It has to be one or the other: Thats The American Way
No, what happens is that folks like you get whipped up every election cycle into a lynching fervor, because you are desperate for Trump to lose and you have a lot of strong feelings. But instead of employing that energy usefully towards fighting folks who genuinely do wish you harm (i.e. the republicans) you are directing it at leftists and chasing shadows and foreign agents. Why is that? Just please do something more useful and positive with your time.
Polar opposite viewpoints, but at least we’re having civil discussion.
Your comment really read to me like you were describing genevas actions.
Just to be clear, geneva is the one who, instead of doing literally anything to improve the plight of the Palestinian people, posts about how mediocre the candidates opposing the republican candidate.
I don’t think you understand the agenda of the aforementioned mod and their instance admins. Instead of outright calling themselves the_donald.ml, they do it under the most roundabout way pretending to be progressive and to care about Palestinian people while in reality just trying to keep trump and the chaos he brings about.
Are tankies allowed to post their opinions in MoG? I think you are making bad faith assumptions based on vibes. Do you have clear evidence of your claims? It seems unlikely to me that geneva_convenience doesn’t care about the palestinian people, and it seems unfair to make that claim without substantiating it. You can dislike and criticise their opinions without jumping to wild accusations.
posts about how mediocre the candidates opposing the republican candidate.
I don’t even care for GC, but I post about this because if candidates are mediocre how can they be seen as real opposition? Why is having demands of candidates a bad thing?
Browbeating people critical of democrats might feel cathartic for you but it’s just enabling the worst behaviors from candidates. Like for example the number of democrats who decided to go anti trans after winning their primary.
Telling people Biden’s crimes is trying to get people not to vote? The fuck?
No Geneva was trying to say in their OP that the candidate opposing Ken Paxton is a poor candidate, which is true, but as I have learned today from 2 threads in two ask lemmy communities on both instances: .ml doesn’t want people to vote.
They have no solution to get rid of trump, just the intention that they wish they could burn all of America and Israel, and don’t want to be called extremists, but also don’t really want to say those quiet parts out loud. (Possibly because they know their extremism could land them in legal trouble in some countries where their servers are)
The “but biden” is a far right dog whistle, which is interesting because .ml is supposedly far left, though the far sides can indeed be very close to each other when plotted on a circle.
So what’s the liberal solution to get rid of the Obamas, the Bidens, the Kamala’s, and the Newsroms? Becuase it’s never happened yet.
If your solution is only to remove one bad option and never focus on the less bad option that is not a solution either.
Electing progressives and anti zuonists to seats and the DNC to make it useful. Work has already started.
Progressives have already had the power to fight against the zionists, and keep chosing not to. They only pretend to fight against zionists when convenient.
Hell, look at you right now, defending zionists.
Yikes, guess we’ll continue on doing nothing then, thanks.
Can you point out where I said we should do nothing? Because it seems pretty clear to me that I never said that.
I love how libs have to keep making up arguments that I’ve never made, rather than discuss the things that I’ve actually said.
Just the general unhelpfulness, cheers.
The “but biden” is a far right dog whistle
Holy fuck, are liberals okay? Jesus christ, man.
though the far sides can indeed be very close to each other when plotted on a circle.
Hoooolyyyy fuck, lmfao!
Please tell me your dictionary has more than just the letter F. You seem to really struggle with basic comprehension and discourse in the simplest of languages.
Bro I’m not debating Zionism or Nazism with you, lmfao. Good luck finding a debate partner somewhere else.
If you were half as good as me as defending your viewpoint, I’d be scared too.
So far your “defense” has been “If you hate genocide, you must be a russian bot”, or “If you are against zionists, you must secretly want Trump to win”. I wouldn’t call that being good at defending your viewpoint, as much as I’d call it “Slinging around baseless accusations”.
You are a horseshoe theorist with absolutely no concept of how ahistorical and laughable of a position it is. Communists are the opposite of fascists. Liberals are a flavor of fascist.
You have reformist, liberal views and you are completely and utterly intentionally ignorant to Marxism. You’re not interested in truths, just paranoid xenophobias and conspiracy theories. You’re not prime for radicalization. The only thing left to do is point and laugh so others know what not to do.
Your clamoring for civility, as liberals do, is meaningless. Your comments in this thread are shameful. I am laughing at you.
I thought that community had a specific “no lesser evil” rule?
If so, it sucks but this is ydi based on what you said. I disagree with that rule when in place, but we are all supposed to at least glance at rules and not use a community if we’re unwilling to follow them.
If my memory is wrong, yup, ptb, which is par for the course
YDI for continuing to engage with fascists on their own communities.
Fair. I’m not a fan of blocking and banning. Avoiding sure, but if you have a community, you should allow discourse. Manufacturing_consent isn’t a community but an echo chamber where any discussion that doesn’t align with a mod that is noticeably stuck in box-thinking and labeling results in a permanent ban with the label “Zionist”.
I’ve challenged them to a debate.
If we’re truly are trying to rise above Reddit, then the echo chambers have to go. Or as someone else said: label it in your sidebar that you want everyone to agree with you.
There is absolutely no need to debate the merits of zionism. If you want to both sides the genocide in gaza and lebanon and the west bank then fuck you. Biden was just as reprehensible as Trump on the issue of Israel. No question. He made mewling noises while adopting exactly the same policies on Israel. That’s the only difference. You can argue all you like about his other policies. But in this respect there was/is no daylight between the two approved parties in terms of support for Israel. By definition, this is 100% manufactured consent for a war nobody wants.
Yet somehow, that doesn’t actually stop the genocide and seems to forgo the fact that a never-war gimme my peace prize pedophile started a war you’re paying for at the pump or in your groceries bill.
You can agree that both biden and trump were horrendous for the palestinian people and their cause, but what’s next? All I’m seeing is .ml accounts getting bogged down in ideology and complete lack of action or planning on how to get out of this.
And anyone who tries to move forward is called a zionist. It’s like we’re all 10 years old.
I’m beginning to suspect that the status quo is the goal here. Keep trump in power, because he’s effectively the fastest path to American destabilisation and destruction.
I just wish this .ml cult would say those things out loud. Say out loud you’re proud extremists who are happy to have a pedophile start endless wars and sustain the genocide you condemn because secretly trump is helping you “take down the west”.
By definition and by these broad modding powers on .ml to ban free speech and only encourage monolithic views, this is 100% manufacturing consent for the destruction of western societies.
And that’s fine if you believe that, just say it and don’t pretend you’re “left” and want the people in Palestine to not suffer.
You can agree that both biden and trump were horrendous for the palestinian people and their cause, but what’s next? All I’m seeing is .ml accounts getting bogged down in ideology and complete lack of action or planning on how to get out of this.
Yes, I do agree. What’s next? Fight against zionist candidates and vote for anti-zionist candidates. Seems pretty straightforward. If you have no anti-zionist candidate then sure, vote against trump. Seems sensible. I don’t think anyone is arguing you shouldn’t vote. They / we are just pointing out that it is unlikely by itself to move the dial on US policy towards the Israeli genocide, without a ton of pressure from the public. I’d love to be proved wrong.
I’m beginning to suspect that the status quo is the goal here. [stuff you completely invented in your own head] And that’s fine if you believe that, just say it and don’t pretend you’re “left” and want the people in Palestine to not suffer.
What have I said to suggest such a thing? Can you point to it? Or are you just projecting your bias onto me?
Do you want to debate the nuances of Nazism afterwards?
Leftist fascists? What?
Yes red fash, aka Marxist-Leninism and its derivatives.
W A T L O L
Please tell me more about how Marxist leninism is fascist
I’m not going to waste much time or effort on a tankie.
If you’re curious wiki has some history on this and its anarchist roots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fascism
But I’m sure you’ll call that a cia psyop and defer to whatever prolewiki says.
by the 1940s and the Cold War era, particularly in the United States, it was adapted as an anti-communist slogan
Im sure you’ll call that a cia psyop
I mean…
Use of the term “red fascist” was first recorded in the early 1920s, in the aftermath of both the Russian Revolution and the March on Rome. For instance, the Italian anarchist Luigi Fabbri wrote in 1922 that “red fascists” is “the name that had been given to those Bolshevik communists who are most inclined to espouse fascism’s methods for use against their adversaries”.[1] In the following years, other socialists began to believe and argue that the Soviet government was becoming a red fascist state. Bruno Rizzi, an Italian Marxist and a founder of the Communist Party of Italy who became an anti-Stalinist, argued in 1938 that “Stalinism [took on] a regressive course, generating a species of red fascism identical in its superstructural and choreographic features [with its fascist model].”
Sure overlook the leftist origins and usage and pretend it’s just the CIA. Typical dishonest tankie.
Ok but then after that it was the CIA? Great argument?
Frequently wrong, never in doubt.
Your labels are way nicer than mine, but glad to see I’m not the only one 😂
Don’t waste time arguing with them on .ml communities, you’ll just get banned for no reasons and they’ll gloat about it
Yeah those damn anti-zionists and their propaganda, right?
This election doesn’t offer an off-ramp to genocide
So then it’s not a democracy and it doesn’t matter if people participate in the sham.
On the other hand, if there is some semblance of democracy, then there is always an off-ramp to genocide or anything else, which is getting people to demand it. By giving your vote to a politician who doesn’t offer an off-ramp to genocide, you are choosing not to demand it, you are saying that you find what they’re offering acceptable, genocide included.
If a critical mass of people refuse to vote for a candidate over an issue, then they will change their stance on that issue if they care at all about winning. If all you say is, “Hey, we’d prefer if you did this, but it’s not going to have any impact on how we vote,” then it doesn’t matter how many people say that, they’re not going to change their stance because you’ve given them no reason to.
Stop letting politicians tell you what is and isn’t possible and start telling them instead.
I swear, the kind of trivial shit that will end a politician’s career because people think it’s kinda cringe, shit like the Dean Scream, and you think this is just set in stone because they say it is?
And I hear all that, and I’m fully on board with getting politicians to stop supporting the genocide, since there are at most 3 who even dare to talk about it, what do you propose we do this election? Just sit it out? Do nothing?
I understand this viewpoint. I think it’s less an opinion and more a neurological condition: being so embedded in an ideology which is by the power of AIPAC impossible to achieve in today’s political landscape. This is a rather neurodivergent absolutist approach hoping for a utopia any smart person know is not achieved within the parameters of today’s power structure.
I think expectating this situation to change first before we consider voting, is not going get us anywhere. So when applying this force of complete inaction to the current situation, you get more trump, more greater Israel. More Canada and cuba invasions, even less pedophile accountability.
And then I have to wonder, who runs .ml? If this ideology is being promoted so radically that people get banned even attempting to discuss this, the only outcome the .ml owners seem to want is to maintain the status quo, which makes them very disingenuous to the Palestinian cause. Come to think of it, they may have been the “never Hillarys” that brought us trump in the first place.
You don’t even need a tinfoil hat to see that if .ml is indeed russian made, trump is a russian plant (buy russian oil), then it all makes perfect sense.
Tldr; if a the response from a so called ultra left wing, anti nazi, pro palestine lemmy instance to the biggest right wing biggot, corrupt pedophile war monger in American history is to NOT vote him out by all means necessary, then that instance has revealed it’s true nature and purpose: to maintain the status quo, keep trump in office and let the situation in palestine further deteriorate.
I’m happy to debate and be proven wrong, but every .ml response I’ve got in the last 24h has been one paragraph indoctrinated slogans, or slurs or responses with very limited vocabulary.
This is a rather neurodivergent absolutist approach hoping for a utopia any smart person know is not achieved within the parameters of today’s power structure.
This is a very ableist way to make this point. I know what you’re trying to say here, but you’re also saying that neurodivergent people are not smart because you’re saying “any smart person” would not have a neurodivergent approach.
And then I have to wonder, who runs .ml? If this ideology is being promoted so radically that people get banned even attempting to discuss this
You were banned from a community, not the instance. The community is run by Geneva_Convenience (who I have some problems with, but don’t really disagree with in this case).
You don’t even need a tinfoil hat to see that if .ml is indeed russian made, trump is a russian plant (buy russian oil), then it all makes perfect sense.
You do need a tinfoil hat. You’ve constructed a conspiratorial worldview where everyone who disagrees with you, no matter why can be dismissed as secretly working for sinister foreigners. Even if one group disagrees with you from a left-wing perspective and another disagrees with you from the right, even if some are Marxists and some are anarchists, it’s all “RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!”
If you come back down to earth, surely you must understand that not everyone agrees with you on everything. It seems like liberals have this extremely narrow range of what “disagrees with me, but isn’t a foreign asset” looks like and I’m pretty sure it’s just Bush-era neocons. It’s legit crazy. I seriously think y’all just need to read books, like, not even leftist theory, just anything outside of the present day culture war. Just to understand that other perspectives exist, beyond Fox News and CNN.
I understand this viewpoint. I think it’s less an opinion and more a neurological condition: being so embedded in an ideology which is by the power of AIPAC impossible to achieve in today’s political landscape. This is a rather neurodivergent absolutist approach hoping for a utopia any smart person know is not achieved within the parameters of today’s power structure.
“Impossible.” You sure like to throw that word around. What’s really impossible?
Every year, the gap between the rich and the poor increases. Every year, carbon emissions increase and the temperature rises, the weather itself becomes more and more unstable, making it harder to grow food. Every year, there are more refugees displaced, both from climates becoming uninhabitable and from the bombs we drop on innocent people for no good reason.
Nothing that we are doing right now, as a society, is sustainable. Which is to say that it is impossible for the things we’re doing to be sustained. The reasons why they’re unsustainable are not just because of human systems or individual politicians, but because of physical, natural laws.
Now, you say it’s “impossible” to divert course, and physics says that it’s impossible to stay the course, who do you think is gonna win? If we make a law that says we can flap our arms and fly, and the laws of physics say we can’t, who wins? And you say I’m the one with a “neurological condition?”
This mortal, human system can insist that it’s “impossible” to change all it wants. But it will. If it does not bend, it will break. I would prefer it to bend, I am trying to make it bend, and you keep telling me that it’s “impossible” for it to bend. Alright then, it will break. Not because of anything I do or say, not because I want it to, but but because it is physically unsustainable.
Any strategy or plan I present, you’d just pick apart and dismiss, because you don’t grasp that. It doesn’t matter what the system claims is impossible, there won’t be a system if we can’t make things happen. If you understood that, you’d be in the same boat as me, looking for a way to make the necessary changes and dismissing any strategy that just aims to uphold the status quo. But if you believe that you can sustain the unsustainable, or that you can trump physical laws with human laws, there’s no real point in discussing strategy because we’re not viewing the situation the same way.
Beautifully written!
Quit while you are behind.
Meh this community bans people that are “right of center”
I’ve seen these mods ban users and call them “fascist” for saying something as controversial as “Democrats are neoliberals”
My point is I find it ironic when posts like this complain about other communities when this community will do the same shit when posts/comments don’t agree with the mods’ politics 😂
These people want trump to win. They do everything in their power to make the left look as bad as possible. They need things to get worse and the west to decend into fascism so their shitty ideology looks like the lesser evil.
This person is a Zionist btw.
It would have been really nice if someone had told me that years ago and there’s some “find your way in the lemmy jungle” kind of onboarding, but after 24h of talking to people from multiple instances I’m afraid you’re right.
This is so far to the left they are actually extreme right. You’ve put it very well.
The one thing that needs to be added is that this is mostly the instance admins and the chronically online mods who are no doubt paid. There are a fair bit of accounts on that instance who do not share the ideological views of the masters, and there are accounts on other instances who will peddle the most hardcore version of the .ml founder ideology.
I’m beginning to understand why this will never overtake reddit sadly.
The problem is the lingering Lemmy.ml federation. Because the actual developers of Lemmy own Lemmy.ml it gives it some legitimacy as opposed to the other tankie cesspits.
There are other software’s like piefed and mbin being developed that have tools which allow Admins to provide a more curated experience so new users dont sign up and have the first post be “all Americans deserve to die for voting for Joe biden”.
As the fediverse grows normal people will push out extremists. Early reddit was full of extreme reddit content.
Yep, except here the MAU numbers are dropping every month, and we’re not going to make it with this high level of infighting this early on. I hope I’m proven wrong, and I’m working every day here to have that not be the case, but the MAU stats this year are really discouraging, doubly so now that I’ve discovered lemmy.ml was the_donald.ml all along.
MAU has been steady for 2 years which is pretty good. If you include nodeBB its grown. I think its hard to break out and reach new users but they can be retained.
Colonizers gonna colonize, am I right?
If colonizing is when people use a website, then no wonder you guys think Russia doesn’t invade countries.
You know that everyone can see that you ban evade and vote manipulate with your alt account @pinto@lemmy.world account, right?
Driving authoritarian bootlickers out of spaces is a good thing actually.
Anything is possible when you’re making shit up, I suppose
