I think you missed the point where they want more of the “right people” whatever that means. They think they can outbreed everyone else and win by having the most right people. See just about every major religion as a case study for this.
I feel like proper eugenics was pretty soundly debunked as people are more complicated than peas. I think that the only thing you can reliably predict is race.
And these people look like that Nazi from Raiders of The Lost Ark.
It was never soundly debunked in theory. We are animals and like all animals our offspring inherit traits from us. Hypothetically if you could agree on what “good traits” looks like you could selectively breed people based on those traits and get people who are more likely than average to have those traits. Keep doing it for generations upon generations and you’d get people optimized for those traits. Even without knowing what gene or genes are responsible.
The problem is that we’re notoriously bad at deciding what is and is not in the set of “good traits” and tend to pick stupid shit like “being Aryan/white.” Also forced/restricted breeding is unethical at best, and fucking monstrous on average. It’s one of those things that goes in the bin of “it would probably work, but if we start doing it we’ve already become the villains”.
It might work, but in the same way that it does with dogs. You might get some traits you want, but they will all be as inbred as a Bulldog. Probably would knock 15 years off average lifespan.
The more mixed up your genes are, the less likely you are to have health defects.
Having worked in public policy for several years, the 26-year-old Londoner had come to an alarming realisation about the future of the UK, the world – and the human species.
She’s 26?
What is “several” defined as here? 2? 3?
It appears she was 26 when Malcolm proposed on reddit in 2013. She was born 1987, and he 1986.
No, I think that’s talking about Aria Babu, a person from London who’s changed the focus of her career to become a “pronatalist”. The woman in the photos is Simone Collins, and I haven’t read about her age. I’m usually the kind that reads the whole articles on links but I could only bring myself to skim through this lunacy.
Ah, I assumed it was about Collins. That’s on me for not looking up the article.
To be fair, it’s such a load of nonsense that it isn’t really worth reading…
You seem to have the same problem I do. 🤭 it turns out several is kind of a fucking useless term, meaning more than two but fewer than many in number or kind. So…it’s defined by a bunch of nonsense-fluff numbers.
Several cannot mean two…but several can be 3. My sister called me to deal with “several” whatevers, I came over & there were 3 whatevers (can’t remember what it was), and I was like what the hell, sister, you said several & looked it up. Several sounds like 7, but it can mean 3 to idk, 9. It’s stupid.
For 3, most people would describe that quantity as “a few”.
That reminds me of when my 5 year old nephew started telling me a story by going, “Back when I was a little boy…”
Maybe it’s like 1.05 years, but that round up
I actually quite like the idea that Humanity will survive as a result of these weird cunts and their breeding programme; but only as a race of subterranean mole people with too poor eyesight for the surface world.
We need miners that can work without light since the power is needed for generative AI.
No, you’re thinking of the Morlocks. These idiots will obviously be the Elois.
Holy shit is America in for a surprise when the influencers catch up to the European glasses thing
We’ve got fucking bellends walking around like they smashed their faces into a couple of CRT monitors
We seem to have some sort of natural immunity to that. Whether for good or ill, only time will tell.
Yeah as someone who can’t wear contacts and won’t do LASIK
Fuck big ass glasses they ain’t cool if they aren’t gonna protect you in a workshop
What are you on about.? Can you show a picture.
I’m European and have never seen that, got any examples? And I’m wondering if you’re talking about only the frames or the lenses too? If you’ve got really bad vision you have no choice, and the thicker the lenses the fewer kinds of frames are available. Contact lenses don’t work well for many and there are several reasons why surgery might not be a choice.
I’m talking about the frames, no need to try to be offended on someone else’s behalf, I wasn’t talking about the lenses.
Gigantic and gaudy specs are a thing, sorry you hadn’t noticed
Edit - I’m talking about this phenomenon, seems to be a thing in western Europe at the mo, in affluent circles -
At least those are big, the ones that woman is wearing have both a thick and small frame which makes a truly horrible effect.
Oh we did that a decade ago with buddy Holly glasses
Neither of the people in those photos need glasses. Or, those glasses have plano lenses; there’s no distortion at the edges.
Large frames like those require very hiugh index lenses, because otherwise your lenses get really thick at the edges. My prescription is fairly bad, and I need 1.67 index to avoid stupidly heavy lenses.
Also, frames without nose pads don’t usually stay put on your face. I find them very uncomfortable, esp. since I have to wear glasses for everything.
Off-topic. I’m wearing without nose pads now, because they also didn’t stay put for me, and caused headaches.
As life long user I can only say glasses suck.
Surely they meant to write adopting? Lesbian couples can’t breed.
I don’t get it, can you explain this?
The dude looks androgynous enough to pass as a butch lesbian?
Ignoring people’s pronouns is so funny haha
There isn’t a pronoun in what I wrote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_and_Malcolm_Collins
Well that’s just a fucking trip of dysfunction.
Just that bit is a lot.
If the population declined and it makes the economy do less well, won’t people just have more children like they did the last time the economy was in that state? Every environment has a carrying capacity for the creatures that live in it. It’s not uncommon to see fluctuations above and below that equilibrium point.
Instead of pushing people to ignore the factors that cause the limit in humans, like not wanting or needing more children, maybe find a way to organize society so hitting that limit doesn’t cause massive problems, or try to eliminate some of the factors creating the limit. It’s insanely difficult in our society to have even one child who’s healthy, cared for, and prepared for their adult life while also being personally healthy, prepared for old age, and enjoying the variety of pleasures of existence.Absolutely adore this bit from the screenshot:
which is based on Simone’s personal observations of lions and tigers on a safari trip.
Sad we have no studies on human children. But thankfully its perfectly reasonable for someone on holiday who’s untrained in interpreting big cat behavior to decide whats good for a bunch of animals is good for human kids too.
I let my children eat trash out of dumpsters. I determined it was a good idea after personally observing raccoons while on a park trip.
The Collinses married after Malcolm proposed on Reddit in 2013.
Crickey
🤢🤮
So redditors who deeply believe they’re superior are breeding? We’re in trouble.
I encourage everyone to read the entire wiki page as well, and it will make sense why they are the way they are.
Read the wiki - They just seem like rich wankers to me.
You’re saying sometimes you can judge a book by its cover?
Oh good I was worried they would be rich and be doing it for entirely monetary reasons
Ironic that they claim all of their decisions are backed by data, but still employ corporal punishment. That’s something that had been quite definitively demonstrated to be far less effective than other measures.
Because they like the idea of supporting data but not the reality
Thank you! I was literally just thinking that.
I also can’t let go of how they say every decision is backed “by data.” But then what is their data source for using corporal punishment? “I saw lions and tigers use it.”
So they think “anecdotes” are the same as “data”? AND that wild predator behaviors are suitable role models for human behaviors? Oh. Oh dear. Oh no.
I wonder if they’re aware that male lions will kill the leader of a pride to take his place, and then kill the cubs of that male in order to force the lionesses into estrus? Would they support the same behavior in people? Or is it only the corporal punishment parts?
I just read their wiki page and it is absolutely filled to the brim with crazy wacky shit.
The Collinses do not support transgender health care for youth, but express acceptance for people whom Simone described as “legit trans” as opposed to those who fall into the “trans cult.” Simone opposes allowing transgender students to use bathrooms corresponding to their gender identity and to play on sports teams matching their gender identity.
As a trans woman, this stood out to me. I’m not surprised that they are transphobic, but why make the point about “legit trans” and “trans cult?” I assume they consider “legit trans” to be the tiny percentage of transgender people who are right-wing nuts and the “trans cult” are those who aren’t. Basically they’re just saying “We only support transgender people who want their faces eaten” which is a strange way of phrasing it since usually transphobes tell all of us to go fuck ourselves, including the dumb ones that support the leopards.
Look up trans medicalist they kind of seem to fit in there.
They’re probably supporters of Blanchardian typology. Now as for why so many people go to bat for a sexologist who doesn’t believe in bisexuality I’ll never understand
I know about transmeds, and considering that they think medical transitioning is required, I think it would be weird for a transmed to be against blockers and hrt for kids.
It’s probably more like they can’t deny the reality of trans people, but they think that it’s a very tiny minority and the rest are just cultists.
You see this same fallacy with autism. Why are there “suddenly” more autistic kids? It isn’t because vaccines are giving them autism or something like that. It’s because doctors know what to look for to diagnose now.
People fall into this same trap with trans people, because 20 years ago it was extremely rare to meet an out trans person. So, now it looks like they’re suddenly everywhere! What could be the cause? A trans cult recruiting people?!
No, it’s a cultural shift. Damn, people can be stupid sometimes.
That’s a really good point. It’s not an evident thing from my perspective because being transgender is so normal to me that I don’t know if I would have ever even thought about that.
Bla bla managing director bla bla Investor Peter Thiel. OK, I’ve read enough. Yet another Thiel apprentices.
Those inverted commas around ‘elite’ are doing so much work they should probably unionise.
Yes! Produce more slaves for our overlords, or the world will end!
They’re producing exclusively Boss Babies
‘elite’ couple
Can’t be bothered with seeing properly
breeding to save mankind from what, round heads and good eyesight?
They want to bring back the Habsburg chin.
Dude can’t even get a proper fitting suit or shirt. He looks like someone who had to borrow his outfit for court
T’fuck is this about?
As if thousands of others aren’t? Forget about the thousand other red flags, why even post this bullcrap?
Really going for the “stereotype of myself” look there.
Nice, the ubermensch is back
And they look like they’ve spent a lot of time inside a locker.
I haven’t read the article. Maybe they were just saying “more children are needed and we’re doing our part”. I’m not sure of this is really about them being arrogant. It could be either or.
You don’t have to go out of your way to defend things that are putting a nice veneer on eugenics.
And for the record, if you read the article it’s clearly about them being arrogant and generally absolutely fucking weird. “If more people like us don’t have children, the world will stop seeing innovation and economic prosperity. It’s very important that the right people reproduce.”
“If more people like us don’t have children, the world will stop seeing innovation and economic prosperity. It’s very important that the right people reproduce.”
I have now read the article, and what you just quoted is nowhere to be found. I would really like to know where you found the text you quoted.
In fact, neither the article nor the interviewees defended eugenics, at all. They even addressed the issue explicitly near the end of the text.
I’m not defending these people, or saying that they are saints, but there was no indication that they were supporting eugenics. To the contrary, they spoke against it.
Actions speak louder than words. There is nothing particularly wrong with eugenics in itself; it is how some people choose to carry it out that becomes questionable. When eugenics is used to propagate racist or dumb ideas.
These guys are a real trip. They screen, select & hand-pick embryos (that is eugenics). But then they turn around & claim they’re not eugenicists, because “they’re not racist” (???). Cool story, bro? But you’re eugenicists.
Imagine, if you will, your friend loudly says he HATES peppermint ice cream. Peppermint ice cream is so terrible. He orders vanilla. He takes out a bag of peppermints, hits them with a hammer, and rolls each spoonful of vanilla ice cream in the crushed peppermint bits. That’s…that’s peppermint ice cream. You claim you don’t like it, but took multiple, direct actions that resulted in peppermint ice cream, which you are enjoying. 🤨 These people are weird AF.
There is nothing particularly wrong with eugenics in itself; it is how some people choose to carry it out that becomes questionable. When eugenics is used to propagate racist or dumb ideas.
This makes several assumptions not supported by science. Eugenics presupposes that genetics alone is a significantly large factor influencing traits like intelligence and “predisposition to criminality” that you can just selectively breed humans like farm animals and thus improve the whole population over time.
If you dig deep enough into the history and science, that’s not necessarily true, and even to the extent it is is fucking complicated. It ignores or discounts environmental factors, cultural norms, and probably more I’m not thinking of atm.
Picking general intelligence, however that’s defined, eugenics says you need to get two highly intelligent people to produce offspring and thier children will automatically be smart. In reality they might have an edge, but that edge can be lost if the kids aren’t provided with a stable home environment, healthcare so they can thrive, high-quality education, etc. It doesn’t mean shit if your kid is the next Einstein according to an IQ test (which are fraught with problems by themselves) if they can’t read.
The topic is higly debated by people much more educated than I who spend thier whole lives studying the topic. I’d encourage you or anyone interested to do some reading on the subject from actual experts (which I, for the record, am not) with backgrounds in genetics and especially anthropology. “The Myth Of Race” by Robert Sussman was an incredibly eye-opening book for me personally that obviously focuses most on race but eugenics gets covered too.
I think we are more or less in agreement. 🙂 I focus almost exclusively on the ‘strictly physical’ side of eugenics, cross-breeding & GMO but for humans. I see people who are fucked up, carry horrible genes, have undesirable physical traits. Sometimes they even mix & match with others that have bad genes/traits, and sometimes they even know bad things could happen…then their offspring has bad physical traits or medical problems & they’re all shocked pikachu face. How could this happen?! Well, because Mommy and/or Daddy are fucked up. And yeah that weird heart defect got passed down. Sickle cell anemia, passed down. Things of a physical nature. Good inputs, probably good outputs. Known bad inputs, hey…let’s not be shocked when there are bad outputs.
Intelligence, character traits, waters get significantly murkier. That’s just not how I think (because enough of it, I believe, is wrong). And I think this cringey couple overestimates their intellectual capacity. They might get A plusses on tests, but the way they’re interacting with the ‘real world’ displays a general lack of awareness, mental illness, & I think there’s some Main Character Syndrome at play.
Fair enough. I took your original comment a certain way, probably cause the way it sounded is the way a significant potion of the population thinks. Physical variation is a much more understood (and less dangerous) thing too.
They “spoke out against it” while saying and doing things that are literally the definition of positive eugenics.
“In other words, positive eugenics is aimed at encouraging reproduction among the genetically advantaged, for example, the eminently intelligent, the healthy, and the successful. Possible approaches include financial and political stimuli, targeted demographic analyses, in vitro fertilization, egg transplants, and cloning.”
Oh hey looks like we found one of their Lemmy accounts if you are bending over that far backward to defend something you apparently have not even read about.
I haven’t read the article
Maybe they were just saying
I’m not sure
It could be either or
If only there was a way to find the information you’re missing
I have now read the article (which OP didn’t link to), and it does indeed seem like this narrative was unfounded and I was right. I could not find any support for eugenics in the article, and the interviewees even spoke against it explicitly.
You should read the article yourself, it’s actually quite insightful.
Pronatalism is supported by Elon Musk and Peter Thiel which should raise alarm bells. Not to mention the links to other conservative techbro movements.
If they didn’t want to be associated with something that has shades of eugenics, they might have chosen a different name for their philosophy.
