- cross-posted to:
- Mirror@50501.chat
- cross-posted to:
- Mirror@50501.chat
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Fuck yeah, there it is. Let’s go. New party. This one’s dead. November was the DNC’s last chance. Time for a new party. DNC leadership and political consultants aren’t allowed anywhere near this one.
I love it but it’s real risky
Fuck it. Look where we’re at now, the only safe bet is that the Democrats will not change and this cycle will continue indefinitely until something else takes over.
Can it get any worse?
The decision needs to be made right now, because there are always going to be those that encourage voting 3rd party like 3 months before the election even though none of the groundwork has been done for the previous 4 years.
If the work is started now it’s a lot better then 3 months before the election where it really just syphons votes away from at least preventing Republicans from winning.
How would it be worse than the current situation?
Fwiw, that was my logic up until the election. I fully admit I was wrong. The DNC is simply not capable of mounting a winning campaign in this context. It has atrophied into an unrecoverable state. Refactoring is not going to be useful. A new project is the best way forward.
I think most state parties are ok, and the DNC just got it’s furtherest left chair in 30 years…
But the idea behind this, that politicians are loyal to voters over party is a lot better than where party comes first. Because helping voters is hard, and if it’s not the priority it doesn’t get done.
When we help voters when able, we have the numbers for majorities.
I think this is the same shift for Republicans post-Obama. Every Republican started saying, “I’m an independent.” and the Tea Party started. Back then, Trump’s claim to fame was the birther movement, which eventually became MAGA & the presidential run.
Nowadays, I have very little respect or identification with Democrats. It feels like a failed party. I think they’ll either transform more left (see Bernie & AOC’s shifts & populism) or die out to something else. I like the Working Families Party because it focuses on the economic disparities rather than identity politics.
I’m glad we found more freedom for more people, but I think the Left has lost cohesion in doing so. We don’t need to all be the same, but the message used to be “Working class vs. Rich” and the Right manipulated that into its current populism. Now there’s the “Liberal Elites” that are out of touch, and recent events make it feel that way, not just propaganda any longer.
I’m just a bit worried about any potential schism among the Democrats because the electoral system in the US is still incredibly broken and will always gravitate towards a 2-party state.
To me, it seems easier for the Democrats to rebrand as more left-leaning than they currently are and try to remain a united front, rather than splinter into several competing parties.
If anything is to supplant the Democratic party, it would need to be one party supplanting the whole of the Democrats, or else Republicans will remain a plurality and retain control of the US government until the electoral process changes or their numbers diminish.
Well, I suppose one way to look at it is that we needed the unified front against Trump, but didn’t get it. So for now, and especially for the midterms, maybe now’s the time to get an alternative party started?
And then they can choose to run a presidential candidate in 2028 or not, depending on the momentum they get?
I dunno. Mostly thinking out loud here.
After how 40 years of operation, the Green Party still isn’t on the ballot in 10 states. Less than 1% of the legislative offices around the country (state and federal) are held by 3rd party or independents. You need to either make ranked choice voting the state-wide method in your state first, or put that energy into taking over your state’s Democratic party via the primaries and the internal leadership elections.
The green party doesn’t realistically try though
Ballotpedia makes it even more bleak than I thought: “Three minor parties were recognized in more than 10 states as of January 2025”
https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
I thought the Libertarians were on the ballot in all 50 states. Just crazy when you consider Perot had just shy of 20% of the popular vote in 1992 (and still received zero electoral votes).
3rd party for anything beyond county level just isn’t happening without ranked choice.
So long as they don’t sit on their hands doing nothing and then decide to run one candidate in 2028. You don’t lead by taking the top seat, you lead by building a base that wants you to lead.
I like the Working Families Party because it focuses on the economic disparities rather than identity politics.
The WFP is awesome, but this is definitely not their politics. And they’re awesome precisely because they don’t act that way.
It’s not focused on the economics?
Not “rather than identity politics”. What about that makes you think they’re not about social justice? They’re dedicated progressives, not class reductionists.
A multi-racial party doesn’t mean you downplay racism, it means the party has solidarity across races. That’s what solidarity is.
Nowadays, I have very little respect or identification with Democrats. It feels like a failed party
Yeah, but lots of us reached that point decades earlier…
08 Obama was the lone bright point going back forty years of the party.
Hell, at Carter’s time he faced a fractured party because he was moving to far right. So really it’s more like 50 years.
Dems have lost the plot for longer than most of us have been alive, and I’m all about reducing the strength of the party as an organization.
But we still need a DNC and state parties if only to facilitate primaries, that’s a very important function.
What would it take to get a primary system up and running for Independents (or more accurately I guess it would have to be a proper party for a primary to make sense)?
I assume it’s some combo of setting up the event hosting ($$$) and somehow coming up with the rules for deciding on how to operate the primary (schedule, thresholds for qualification, voting system, etc). And unfortunately I have no idea how to accomplish either.
It’s not just having the money and national organizing capacity to run a primary in every state. Each state-level organization has to get, at a minimum, enough non-contestable signatures for the Secretary of State to even put the party on the ballots. And then they need to win enough of a percentage of the popular vote in that one next election to retain ballot access without having to get all those signatures again next time. The Green Party doesn’t even actively operate in 10 states. That’s why people like me insist that the only way to effectively shift left is to flood the Democratic Primaries with progressive candidates and voters, -or- (if your state allows it) get a direct voter ballot initiative to adopt some kind of ranked choice voting.
What would it take to get a primary system up and running for Independents (or more accurately I guess it would have to be a proper party for a primary to make sense)?
A lot, because you’d need a national and one for each state…
But the time to talk about this was anytime in the last fifty years up till a month ago when we got a DNC chair who will let a fair primary happen…
You’re trying to fix a problem we literally just fixed, and in doing so likely hand control back to neoliberals.
You want to know why it took mainstream media up until the last month to start talking shit about Dems?
It’s because the neoliberals just lost power
Now is the time to rally around the new Dem party, not make a new one
I’m not super informed here. Why do you think the new DNC chair will change how the Dem primaries will be operated?
I tried googling around myself, but couldn’t really find anything meaningful. But that’s probably more a reflection of how tired my brain is than anything (work’s been hell).
If you have anything readily available you could share, I’d love to feel some positivity about the Democrat party.
But we still need a DNC and state parties if only to facilitate primaries, that’s a very important function. a month ago when we got a DNC chair who will let a fair primary happen… Now is the time to rally around the new Dem party, not make a new one
Totally agree here with emphasis on the new part. Surge the turnout in the primaries. Without ballot access in every state it’s just not realistic to expect a 3rd party can rise up and replace the Democratic party in 2026 or 2028. Except in states with direct ballot initiatives to switch to ranked choice voting, but even that is only a solution for at best the election after getting that voted into existence.
he’s only saying that because he happens to live in a super liberal small rural state.
know what happens in most ither states where you don’t have name recognition or a party infrastructure behind you and you run for office? unless you have some sort of money reserve you can tap into and dollar bills come gushing out like an oil geyser, it’s damn near impossible to not just win but get ballot access TO win. and if you do get ballot access, all you will do is steal votes from the registered democratic candidate (or the democratic candidate steals votes from you) and the republican wins.
a brilliant strategy from a man who twice ran for president as a democrat but refused to change his party affiliation. he didn’t even take his own damn advice, and look at what that got us. just the fact that he didn’t do this his own damn self should show how stupid an idea it actually is.
and by the way, sure he and aoc are drawing huge crowds. crowds are nothing. how many of those people vote? how many of those people get 2 more people to vote? just showing up to a rally means absolutely fuckall if you don’t actually go vote and vote for viable candidates. because if your message resonates with the people enough you don’t have to run unaffiliated with a major party because you would have the votes to run and win as a democratic candidate in the first place. because to be very honest, the thing that bernie is suggesting not only sounds like an exercise in liberal grifting, it also sounds like an excellent way to divide a voting bloc that when split has absolutely no chance of beating a republican ever but would absolutely lead to entrenched infighting among a group that should be united in beating republican christian nationalist fascism.
Well said. And poignant!
Everyone is terrified of the word socialism, God damn
corporations and the wealthy love it. been enjoyers since time popped into existence.
We really should be calling the “centrist” ones “Republicrats.”
Neoliberals are Fascist enablers.
Sanders and AOC can come.
Let’s remember the role givesomefucks played getting Donald Trump elected, and how much the folks like him talk shit about the New York Times because “billionaires” when it suits them.
It’s worked out so well for them so far. The left organizing themselves into anything useful and productive, historically can be compared to cats herding cats.
Do me a favor and search, “FDR New Deal.”
You clearly have very little knowledge of history. Is recommend starting with early 20th century Russia.
The independent party is back!
How would any other party get any time on a national platform to campaign, the way Democrats and Republicans do? I mean, we do have more than those two parties; but they’re never included in big debates or really given any attention at all. I’m surprised I don’t hear idiots saying shit like “Dude, I voted today and there was like 6 motherfuckers on the ballot instead of just two!”
It’s my understanding another party needs 5% of the vote in an election to get federal money and news coverage.
He means in our local level. We can win state and local, also the fucking Congress as independent or different party. But only thing those parties do is run for president.
I’m with him. Time to build a new party and start taking over states. Of course that our last line. Best beat think only true choice we really have is to get out the guillotines. We won’t fix fascism and nazis without spilling blood.
Here in the Netherlands our house of representatives has 150 seats and they’re filled by 15 parties, the biggest of whom has 37 seats, the second 25. People sometimes suggest that political fragmentation makes things more complicated, because usually at least 3 or 4 parties are needed to form a coalition. I don’t really think it matters because I look at it this way: there are different views on things in society and compromises need to be found one way or another, it’s where this takes place that’s different. In one case it’s on the conference of 1 or 2 big parties, in the other case it happens in parlement/government where the many small parties meet. The benefit of a many-party system is that people actually got a choice, if you’re on the left and don’t like what a particular party is doing, you can pick another leftwing party. You don’t have that option in a 2-party system, you’ll probably stick with your party despite everything you don’t like about it. Here, if a party really fucks up, they’re done for, a party can get 20% one election and 1% the next one. The system is more dynamic. At the same time, the actual governments usually have an overlap, like there will be different coalitions, but our center-right party has been in the coalition for over a decade now. There may be a certain charm to knowing that every other election a completely new set of people forms the government, but that also has many downsides I think. There’ll be little continuity, republicans undo everything democrats have done and in 4 years we’ll see the reverse. Haven’t heard any really convincing arguments against political fragmentations. It’s just the path towards it that may be difficult if you’re in a 2 party system, because as soon as you go third party, you’re hurting your side of the spectrum. What would be helpfull is if it would happen on both sides simultaneously. Can’t you setup a structure where people from both sides would together commit to voting third-party?
Can’t you setup a structure where people from both sides would together commit to voting third-party?
Can’t really do that with a First-Past-The-Post system because someone needs to get past the post. If there are four major parties (left and right both have significant numbers voting 3rd party), there would ultimately have to be a coalition or two that just ends up being the Republicans and Democrats all over again.
The system itself has to be changed first, and the two parties who benefit from there only being two parties aren’t going to change it to allow for that.
Someone also needs to start a fourth party at the same time which is socially left but fiscally right. A lot of conservatives don’t give a shit about the social aspect of the Democrats but just like the financial side of Republicans more so they vote that way instead.
A 4 party system is better than 3 party, and this way instead of a third party syphoning votes from only Democrats you’ll have another party syphoning votes from Republicans at the same time so there’s no downside.
That’s triangulation and it’s been the basis of the DNC since Clinton’s presidency
Watch the video! It’s why what Bernie (who I absolutely love as a senator) said won’t work.
We can’t do SHIT until we fix our voting system.
Well, then we’re not doing shit. That’s not going to happen at this point unless the system collapses completely, which you really don’t want to happen.
We’re not going to fix it by voting third party, period.
The only way it can be fixed is to do it through changes led by our elected officials. So we need to advocate for and support people that can make it happen. We need to protest for it, push for it, put people in power that support it.
If someone doesn’t support it, we need to exercise our votes together and get someone in there that’s more progressive and will fight to make changes, not preserve the status quo.
But we can’t lose sight of the drawbacks of our voting system while we work to see those changes implemented.
We can’t get there by fracturing our vote into two less powerful groups/parties. They will win every time, because they’re united.
We have to get people ready to exercise their vote for a united cause/person.
People like the person in this thread that folded like a napkin when starting to have a tough conversation are part of the problem - either we fix it together or we lose. If we just bitch about our problem and don’t act, we lose.
Put your energy in getting the right person in power to support, and help them! That’s the only way we’re truthfully going to fix this.
Unpaywalled link: https://archive.ph/s09Er
“Have you tried rebranding?”
Brilliant.
