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I’m gonna need a source on that second claim cause it doesn’t sound right
I think the second guy had it backwards.
Wikipedia (If you don’t like it, use it’s sources):
Nearly half of foster children in the US become homeless when they reach the age of 18
That’s still really bad though
That’s honestly worse.
Backwards as in “less than half” vs “more than half”.
Yeah that’s just the telephone chain effect (or whatever they call it).
1: Source says 45%
2: Guy reads source and says “nearly half”
3: Chap listens to Guy and says “half”
4: Dude listens to Chap and says “more than half”
5: Uni-Grad hears Dude and says “a significant amount of”
6: Media hears Uni-Grad and says “almost all”Backwards as in half of foster kids, not half of homeless people.
Ahh right. I didn’t notice that part.
Guess I should have read the image as carefully as your text.
between 2 and 3 there is a step that goes from “nearly half” to “roughly half” and that is what makes that jump easier you would also likely see that between 3 and 4.
however 2-4 are not needed because 45% is by most metrics a “significant amount”
The reality is if you’re working class in America, we’re all one really bad day and a few less people caring about us from being homeless.
fuck.
One in four foster kids will end up homeless.
https://nfyi.org/issues/homelessness/
up to 3 out of 10 homeless people are foster kids who aged out.
what the fuck.
I thought it was bad enough knowing about the veteran rights.
some of the studies show higher rates.
The studies. on the homeless children.
If you want more statistical horror, look up foster care to prison pipeline
So when conservatives want to ban abortions they are basically trying to increase the flow in this pipeline to get more prison slave labor
Well yeah, obviously.
It can’t possibly be because of religion, because all of them would be damned to hell five times a day for several other reasons.
People can easily justify their own sin because they know exactly what motivates them, which is usually some other bullshit they justified to themselves already.
I have witnessed some serious mental gymnastics in my life regarding such things.
I knew a man so religious that he wouldn’t dream of letting a woman live with him if he wasn’t married to her, but he wasn’t really cheating on their two decade long relationship, because they weren’t married.
And boy oh boy, a personal relationship with god affords you all sorts of leeway. Throughout the history of Christianity, what the church had to say was very important. Not anymore. The religion has evolved so that every man is a priest, and Jesus is just wearing shades and riding shotgun wherever they go.
“I’ve never actually read the bi-buhl, but I have a personal relationship with Christ so… and when I have trouble, I just open a random page and read until I find something I relate to. That’s how he guides me, that and the feelings I have in my heart.”
Amazes me.
Multiple angles really.
Biggest one is that a child is both a financial and mental stress on a parent, and our society overwhelming believes that children are primarily the responsibility of the mother. By attacking abortion, they basically saying that every woman is just one sexual assault away from a lifetime of financial, emotional, mental and social duress.
The second reason is class stratification. The financial stresses impact less wealthy families or individuals disproportionately, and less wealthy people cannot afford to travel to areas where reproductive care is legal, nor can they afford the lawyers required to fight the potential criminal cases or just pay their fines. The rich conservatives bankrolling these anti-abortion groups aren’t threatened or beholden to the policy they create.
The third reason is racism. Black women are more likely to seek abortions, partly because they suffer a higher incidence of sexual assault, but also because they have less access to reproductive resources and education. Republicans have dog whistled this in the past by trying to say that abortions are racist because black women have a disporportionate number of abortions, even going so far as to call it a Democrat genocide on African-Americans. This dog whistle shows their true intentions; force financial, mental, and social stress in ways that are “equal” along racial lines, but not “equitable”.
You could say that religion is a 4th reason, but I don’t consider it a real reason, and they cherry-pick their religious convictions anyway. You see those motherfuckers eating shellfish and wearing blended fibers all the time.
Not trying to defend their position but young kids given up for adoption at or near birth are overwhelmingly adopted. There are lines and a whole grey market.
It’s kids with shitty parents that get removed after the toddler phase that tend to end up in the system long term.
Yep, people are only a commodity to be manipulated by the capitalist systems
10000% yes. The easiest people to manipulate are the desperate and manipulators love dangling carrots.
What’s worse is that this is easily recognizable but nothing will ever be done about the nutjobs who enjoy watching others suffer at their hand.
There is no reason to believe we don’t live in hell
But “poors” “ruin” “great American cities”
Make me a billionaire. Say now I’m a super selfish billionaire. I’m OK with having to ride my limo through SF, routing around the Tenderloin, to rub shoulders with those Silicon Valley MAGAs at their fundraisers? Why don’t my buddies and I stop the madness, call it Euthanize The Poors if we have to, but with crime down security costs go down too and any reproductively-derived assets (children) must be safer…
Gated communities are cool but sightseeing is part of life. I’m a selfish billionaire but I can’t visit Honduras safely b/c I haven’t fixed global poverty, now I never get to see it. My yacht is good enough for me I guess fine
Also black families are over-policed, and their kids more likely to be put into foster care “National estimates suggest that 53% of Black children will experience CPS contact by age 18, as compared to 28% of White children” “We consider that, at their root, these inequities are the consequence of systemic racism: there is no inherent relationship between race and child maltreatment. Rather, race is a proxy for the societal and institutional privileges and oppressions people experience because of their membership in a racialized group” https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9325927/
Movement for Family Power is a great advocacy organization if you want to get involved https://www.movementforfamilypower.org/
“National estimates suggest that 53% of Black children will experience CPS contact by age 18, as compared to 28% of White children”
Holy shit both of those are so high, and the the difference is also crazy
To be fair the word contact is kinda sus. I had CPS “contact” when I broke my arm in kindergarten.
I was pushed off the play ground by another kid while at school. My parents were both at work. I had a lot of bruises they also didn’t like. I remember getting questioned about it at the hospital for what felt like forever. They kept pointing out scrapes and bruises and asking how that happened. I had no clue and kept saying from playing.
That sounds like the bare minimum to qualify as contact.
Those contacts can be compared to a broken taillight or stop and frisk—it’s an opportunity to probe deeper and find anything at all to justify further surveillance and actions taken against families who are often impoverished and the hard life that creates.
Also impacts Native Americans. ICWA was put in place to basically stop DHS from kidnapping native kids. (The Right has been waging a war against ICWA for a while too - they tend to be against any form of oversight in child welfare/adoption. They want kids to go to “quiverful” white families)
💯
While this is accurate, most people have a better chance of actually understanding it when you use the full quote.
We live in a world where people have to be convinced to care for and sympathize with those around them.
Empathy is a skill.
That’s a great point. Wish more people would practice it.
I’ve lost most of my sympathy for the homeless after having to deal with their literal shit on a too often basis.
I actually worked in public health.
There was one homeless person in particular. Nancy S had mental health issues, alcoholism, and seizures. She was a ‘frequent flier’ who came to the Emergency Room at least once a week, and sometimes more than once in a day. Conservatively, she cost the taxpayers $10 million. The time she jumped in the river and had police, EMS, and fire respond cost at least $100,000.
It would have been cheaper to give her a house and 24 hour aides, but that would have been ‘gaming the system.’
Tinstaafl, we’re not here to give handouts to lazy bums!
I agree with you. Social programs that provide a safety net for people save more money than they cost. Pretty much any government spending that helps elevate people brings in more tax revenue than it costs. I don’t know why some people can’t see that.
Tanstaafl. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. That the phrase comes from the novel “The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress” by Robert Heinlein. Heinlein’s depiction of Luna is interesting, but he loads the dice in favor of a Libertarian society. Prison gangs were a thing when he wrote the book, which is something he brushes past. It is a very fun read, but a lot of people take it way too seriously.
I read some Heinlein but it was just OK, seemed pretty dated ideologically. Didn’t read that one.
Some people are unable to see the programs beyond “paying for it”, and so they think it’s like an exclusive club where you shouldn’t get access if you have no money. It’s only logical until you ask why we even have a government in the first place and see that the most ruthless governments are also the most exclusive ones
I do understand this. Being grabbed by a woman who repeatedly yells that she wants money, or the guy who says he just wants some money to eat, so you give him some spare change and then that act in itself invites him to single you out of a crowd every single time until you learn to just not walk that route anymore.
My sympathy for them is there, but it definitely needs a grace period to recharge. I wish the world housed and fed people better so that their endless suffering didn’t spill out and overwhelm my limited capacity for it. I know how selfish that sounds.
Our increasingly cashless soceity is not doing them any favours. I wish I could easily just give a cent here and there wirelessly as I’m walking down the streett
Its called a porta potty… You want one of those in your neighborhood, prick.
No… They have a permanent bathroom that self cleans… That can be installed on the street…
I used to live in a country that had these. They were great.
Only place I’ve ever seen them in the USA is in San Francisco
You have lost sympathy for people but not for the system in which it costs money to shit.
Imagine how we feel dealing with yours.
…at least their shit washes away with the rain.
Step 1: Every public business is allowed to keep people from using their bathrooms
Step 2: People don’t like the homeless because they shit on the street
There’s a solution in here somewhere.
I wish the US had more actual public bathrooms, provided and maintained by the local government. The US only seems to put them in parks and recreation areas, but many other countries have the same thing in town centers and other places where people frequently need to go.
This was my biggest takeaway from watching the movie Perfect Days.
The solution is to provide housing, and whatever else help they need.
but then people who struggled to own a home would throw a fit about it, without connecting the dots on how they too were screwed over. They should receive help too.
Tax the rich, and there will be more than plenty resources to do this.
oh no, on top of not owning anything they have the audacity to shit too?
They usually have two or three bags.
I’ve been a homeless teen, thankfully it was over a decade now though.
Shit sucked. I get angry when I hear people make excuses about how homeless people are just lazy or trying to rip you off somehow. Like stfu you have no idea what it’s like!
That happens. I dated someone who worked in a group home for foster kids and they try to set a kid up with some place to live, like an AFC home after they turn 18, but sometimes they don’t have any options and get dropped off at a homeless shelter.
This right here is my biggest fear for my daughter.
She’s lazy. She’s unfocused. She’s isolated.
She is one of the greatest artists I have ever encountered in my life. Bad shit seems to come with that. I am afraid that the world will never know it because she isolates almost completely.
Her mother died from breast cancer when she was 13. I have been so unkind to my body and I’m afraid I won’t be here long enough to help her the way she might end up needing it.
She has her step dad who has remained a big part of her life since her mom passed away. He’s a great man and she and her mother were very lucky that he’s the one she found. She can’t get along with any of her mom’s family. I believe that my wife would always look out for her, but I wish they’d get closer. Her mom made that hard by saying only days before she died, “If you replace me with that woman I will spend eternity rolling in my grave.”
I have survived in this world because of my mother and my uncle. Without them I would have been homeless over and over again. I wish she would get closer with her mom’s family. I can’t make her stay with them though. Her aunt takes her to school if she misses the bus, so maybe she’ll look out for her.
It keeps me awake at night more than anything else.
Has ADHD ever been ruled out? Cause being treated, this immensely increases the chances of a healthy and successfull adulthood…
We’ve been trying to get a diagnosis for a few years. Everyone seems to agree she has it, but they’re scared to medicate her because of my issues with addiction I guess.
We’re pushing the issue next week actually.
A someone who became middle aged with it (ADHD), not knowing what it really was or how it was affecting me, it is worth the effort.
They didn’t really prepare me for how much being medicated would change my life. Not that it cures everything, but I had to deal with a profound sense of loss for a few weeks after getting setup.
I found it really hard when I started to remember all of the missed opportunities and experiences that this condition had taken from me over the years. If ADHD is the cause or a factor, she will thank you later.
I wish my parents had got me help. The poor things couldn’t help themselves though.
I waited too late with my daughter really, but we had a lot going on for a long time. Her mom lost her mind and totally threw everything in the wind and then got diagnosed with cancer and suffered horribly before dying.
I’m hoping I can get her turned around now.
My doctor won’t treat me (I definitely have adhd)because I’ve been on suboxone for a decade and they’re afraid I’ll abuse it I guess. I could go somewhere else but starting over on this is a nightmare. He says if I tested positive he’d have to put me in rehab.
When I began I had to dose in front of a doctor every morning. That went on for several months, then I went once a week. That went on for several more months, then once every two. Several more months of that and finally once a month.
On top of that, I had to go to group three times a week and one group with an actual psychologist once a month.
I’d love to be able to use my brain. It has taken me over an hour to type this comment haha. I keep forgetting and then coming back by accident when I look at my phone.
I’m sorry you are going through that.
I didn’t think the meds for adhd were addictive to people who have it?
My limited understanding is that whereas they would make a non-divergent person “high”, they make me more calm, collected and able to sort my thoughts. Just like Caffine and sugar often makes me sleepy. It’s kinda opposite.
My Dr. Told me that if I had ADHD, I would know pretty quickly when I took my first, very small, dose because if I didn’t have the condition, I would feel like I suddenly had too much energy, or like my body was vibrating.
The only thing I noticed first was that I could recall what I had to do later that day, which would not be the case otherwise.
It’s still a worry in the world of recovery.
I know this about myself for sure. I used to do coke once a year. I’d buy a weekend supply and have a ball. Can’t do that today because of fentanyl.
Anyway. I was the only person in my group that could do a bunch of coke and sleep like a baby. I’d sit up and play shooters with more focus than I’d ever had and then I’d go to bed and get up and do it again the next day.
Probably related.
That certainly sounds like it. There is basically just a big ole list of indicators of having it and if you tick enough boxes, then welcome aboard.
On the bright side. I’ve also noticed that other neuro-divergent people seem to be my favourite to hang around with. Something about being halfway through describing a thought and the other person already gets it makes me happy.
In addition to the appalling foster care kid stats for homeless, around 13% of homeless are veterans (obviously some qualify as both). Funny how support for the military dries up once they get discharged.
Then we have the complete lack of any kind of assistance for the mentally ill.
We shouldn’t even pretend that we are civilized. We treat our fellow humans so barbarically.
FYi readers, I don’t know the actual statistics on foster children who grow out of the system and how prevalent that is in the homeless population, but from what I know at least, particularly in my own time homeless, is that most homeless people are actually small families who live in their car or in someone’s garage.
I think we need to do a lot better to show what poverty really looks like in the USA, because we picture the media-spun image of America that we have a huge middle-class in nice suburban homes, and then there’s the “the poors” who are like, generic homeless dudes who are grizzled old bums warming their fingerless-gloved hands over a burning metal drum down in skid-row.
The reality of the distribution is the “middle class” in America is much, much smaller and more poor than most people realize. Most people who seem to “have it all” are in immense debt, and the larger percentage of families in the US are working poor, people who live in shared homes and apartments with too many other people, people who live in their car and go to work and school every day, people who live in motels and abandoned homes or who “Stay after work” to take advantage of the company showers before sleeping under the desk. These are not jokes or tropes or memes, this is really how many, many Americans live… in the wealthiest country in the world.
There are an incredible number of people with gym memberships for access to the showers.
Besides every van lifer on YouTube.
Never had a bad view of homeless people, even as a child, you gotta lack empathy to be in the position where you are adult and realise that they’re not bad.
It’s the people who pretend to be homeless and collect money that are the real scum and ruin it for the actual homeless
When I see things like this it makes me so proud of my parents. They are the few people I know who do foster care because they care. They have actual love for every kid that ever walked through their doors. They have had so far 3 kids that moved back home at one point or another and for all 3 of them the only question They ever asked was “how soon do you want to move in?”
At the same time stuff like this hurts me because I always thought unconditional love was the standard growing up. The knowledge that most people didn’t / don’t have that is so sad.
Anyway on a side note I am going to call my folks and tell them how great they are.
I’m grateful for my parents as well.
Never looked down on any homeless people in my entire life & would like to keep it that way.
My sister though, holy crap
Recently found a pretty interesting video about China and how they combat homelessness (sorry on reddit). You can buy a 1 room apartment for $15.000 and the monthly costs are minimal. Of course I don’t truly know if there really isn’t any homelessness in China, but we absolutely have the technology to solve this problem lol
In China if you are homeless the cops pick you up and say if you work as a street cleaner you will get a home in excange.
If you don’t like that arrangement you dissappear.
In case your source for that is serpentza, then you should check this reply with more links debunking this guy and his racist views.
Obviously China is not a utopia and with a billion people things will be bad at some place or another. But cherry picked examples and wild accusations like “they will dissappear” is just anti-China propaganda.
I don’t know who that is.
I read news articles.
The news articles I read said they offer homeless people housing for work, if they refuse they are “reeducated” which is one of the many ways people dissapear in the China meat grinder.
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Serpentza is compelling and interesting on a cursory glance. And I don’t know if he is consciously racist or how far his biases go. The bigger problem is that there are “algorithmic forces” shaping content and content creators.
The content creators wants to make money, needs to make money. They will experiment with various things. They make compelling content, don’t have time to deeply study history or sociology or economics, only enough to project an image. Psychological needs from narcissism might make them unable to resist rationalizations in exchanges for clicks.
There have been quite a few cases with supposedly liberal or leftist icons suddenly turning to reactionary rhetoric. It’s hard to understand and somewhat traumatizing. Recently TYT. I think the moral of the story is that much of it is subconsciously performative and not well thought out beliefs. And economic reality makes ideology a lie.
I think Serpentza fits in there somewhere, if he’s not outright paid indirectly by the state department to spread propaganda.
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I went to Shanghai last year and there were, in fact, homeless people around. Not many at all, but I was surprised to see any.
It’s probably mostly accurate, most other developed nations DO prioritize housing and caring for their homeless because it just makes sense that if you don’t want decay in your population, you do SOMETHING to take care of them.
Now that said, I am far more concerned/curious how China is handling one of the leading causes of homelessness which is mental and physical health problems, and how much access the average person starting to slip through the cracks can get to proper healthcare.
I am not well versed on China’s healthcare situation though, and it’s been almost 17 years since I’ve been there last, when I was there people seemed kind of… miserable. Overworked, unable to afford more than the most basic amenities and living conditions. At least the working-class drivers and clerks. Honestly, China 17 years ago feels a lot like many places in the US right now.
Well, for 2022 I found that the average wage is 2600¥ or 330€ per month (with enormous differencs between the regions). That means a flat is 4 annual salaries on average, assuming ithe 15000$ or 14000€. That’s not that much off a difference to Germany, where I am from.
So one could argue that this is just the advise “get a job and buy a house!!!” To a homeless person.
4x the annual median salary for a house sounds amazing to me. In the US, low cost of living areas can have a median income of $40k and houses will still cost $320k (8x your annual salary). In areas like San Francisco, median income is around $140k while median house prices are $1.2M (8x the annual income).
So it seems that housing is twice as affordable in China and Germany.
I think there are more factors at play than you’re giving credit. For example, Germany has an average cost of 3000-5000 euro per m^3 which translates to ~$320-540/sqft. In the US the average cost of a house is ~$146/sqft in the south, ~$156/sqft in the midwest, ~$220/sqft in the north, and ~$195/sqft in the west. So while the 8x vs 4x comparison is accurate, you’re probably also getting 50% less house in Germany.
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What do you mean by small and I think context of where you live matters.
Around me there are an abundance of 0.75k-1.5k sqft homes, typically they are older (1940-1980), and they are between $180-250k. They aren’t in high demand because they are older, they may need some TLC, they have old styles, they are 45 min - 1 hour drive from the big city, and they may not be as big as people want.
I have coworkers who lament not being able to buy a house, but when you talk to them they are looking at 2500+ sqft, less than 10 years old, 20 min from downtown, but $425k.
EDIT: After typing this I opened Zillow and within 30 seconds found a house across town that’s 980 sqft, $115k, 1950’s, but you’re gonna have a 45 minute (minimum) commute every day unless you leave for work at 5 am.
EDIT 2: Oh and 0.34 acres with no HOA
But keep in mind that here you compare a house (!) in the US, to a single bedroom apartment in china. That is quite a difference.
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But absolute scale makes a difference, especially if you compare having a job or not, and how expensive it is to give a home to a homeless person. My impression was that they just give you an apartment for free.
The proper comparison would be complicated, when building and maintaining an apartment block, how much money is siphoned off as profit to the capitalists?
Also e.g. Germany has a lot of regulations which is sometimes nice, but also lead to higher costs. Like converting your car to electric isn’t done in Germany, because regulations demand you make an EMF test which costs something 5-10 thousand euro. So there are practically none. That held back private innovation for EVs. There are countless regulations for building too which might sound good on paper but have been tweaked to only benefit the capitalists and make costs go up and projects take forever.
Then in Germany you wouldn’t give an apartment as a homeless person for free, you’d have to show that you’re jobless and that has to be verified then they give you money then you can pay rent to someone. Although I’m not quite sure how the situation in Germany is overall.
Liberals are also to blame for gaslighting and selling workers out to the capital class for 50+ years. The last Democrat President that actually fought for the proletariat was FDR with his New Deal programs.
Yes, liberals were less evil than Republicans, but when Obama tried to give us universal healthcare they stabbed him in the back and when Bernie set multiple grassroot funding records, they conspired against him and stabbed the entire nation in the back. So if we factor in the opportunities for real leftist leadership that liberals stole from us than that opportunity cost is nearly as damaging as what Republicans are doing.
nearly as damaging
really? More BS false equivalence. The liberals where never in control enough to make any of that happen. They may not be perfect by any means but to say they’re “nearly as damaging” as the right is just ridiculous.
Convenient that when the GOP has a razor thin edge they get everything they want with almost no issue, but when DNC has a super majority they can barely get watered down health insurance reform.
It’s a lot easier to get things done when you get to cheat while the other side has to play by the rules.
That’s the difference between ethical governing and the unethical abuse of power.
If you want liberals to “get everything they want”, and ignore democracy, they’d have to do it unethically.
Wouldn’t it be better if everyone played by the rules, and governed like they are actually working in the best interests of voters?
Then let’s apply the same reasoning we did in November. Some unethical abuse of power is going to happen. Wouldn’t you rather it be less?
The real problem is most of the DNC don’t want the things they say they do to get elected. They get the same conservative money the GOP does to be sure those things don’t happen.
In the past the Democrats did good things for regular people.
Today’s Democrat party is incapable of doing good things for regular people. Literally no better than Republicans these days tho.
There’s no false equivalence in comparing two arms of the same Duopoly.
Literally no better than Republicans?
You’re either a troll or completely brainrotted
So when do the Dems step up and do something to fight back instead of shrugging while voting for fascism?
All Dems are voting for fascism?
The votes wouldn’t be passing if they didn’t vote for it.
So if I looked up how Republicans and Democrats vote, they’d be the same? The Democratic voting history would be literally no better?
Yea… dems aren’t great and I’d love to see a new party. But, I do not understand people saying “the party that is bad at governing is basically as bad as the party taking over the nation through brute force.” Insane logic.
