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Me and the boys boarding be like
Where I live, half the year it’s painfully cold outside. Then in the summer we alternate between unbearable heat (because we’re not used to it) and torrents of rain recently.
We also don’t have a subway system in any of our cities, have lower density cities because we don’t have a huge population in general, and have better driver education than much of the US.
I realize it would be optimal for society for me to take public transit, but in these conditions I’d rather drive. And if I need to go somewhere close, walking is quicker than public transit (and in the winter, generates SOME heat. Standing around at a bus stop, not so much).
I promise if I ever move to NYC, I’ll take the Subway when something is out of walking distance. I did when I visited. It was fine.
I’m kinda germaphobic, and they never seem to clean public transit. Chewed gum everywhere, littering, bodily fluids. Like I’m sure 99% of people are normal, but just 1% of dumbasses ruin it. NYC, Philly, I’ve seen it all. I heard people say other countries such as Japan has clean public transit, not sure why the US can’t do the same… 🤔 (I bet the politicians stole all the funding)
My ideal transport would be getting launched out of a cannon, then I deploy a parachute after the GPS notifies me when I’ve arrived at the destination. Patachute deployed, I land on the roof, like a boss. 😎
Great for introverts too. 🫠
(So until public transit is fixed, I rather be fired… out of a cannon)
Other countries actually clean, sanitize, and maintain their public transit including trains and metro. They do this by shutting it down for a few hours in the early morning/ late night
Other countries are not so me centric as America is either.
NYC is the only one in the US I’m aware of that goes 24/7. I know the Philly one doesn’t.
Are they maintained or just shut down for a few hours?
Cleanliness depends a lot on culture
Odds are they are American and if you haven’t noticed our culture is pretty hell bent on rejecting civic duty
Fully agreed but even clean as a whistle I am not comfortable being around that many people ever
I’ve done both.
Safest place in the subway is at the front of the first car near the motorman. Second best is the front of the second car. If there’s trouble you can move to the first car [with the motorman easily] and have two doors between you and the troublemaker.
Public transport is directly correlated with ridership numbers. When using public transport is the best mobility option, then everyone from all backgrounds will use it and that leads to less bullshit being done.
The numbers are pretty early but the congestion pricing in NYC has apparently already led to less crime in the subway.
The latest Climate Town vid is great.
You also shouldn’t use your phone if you’re right near the doors. It’s too easy for someone to grab it and exit the car as the doors close.
The fact that this kind of thinking is necessary makes me so sad and angry for you.
Yeah. On my city’s light rail I can literally leave my phone charging next to my seat when I go to the bathroom and no one will take it. In fact it’s common for people to do that.
Meanwhile:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2025/04/04/two-teens-stabbed-in-bronx-subway-station-robbery/ (yesterday)
https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manhattan/woman-raped-inside-nyc-subway-station-nypd/ (Mar 17)
Sure, crime has gone down recently in the subway to pre-pandemic levels, but there was still shit like this regularly pre-pandemic too. Definitely wouldn’t leave your anything alone on the subway in NYC.
Also afaik (been a while) there is no bathroom for you to worry about leaving your stuff, people just piss in the subway cars themselves.
See the thing about transit crime is that it’s such a huge deal that it hits the news so hard when anything like that happens.
Meanwhile how many people have died driving in the last month? It’s such a huge number that it’s not even worth reporting on, it’s just “normal”. Fear is in the eye of the beholder.
I’ll take my chances on the extremely rare likelihood that something happens to me on the subway vs the probability that I’ll be maimed or killed while driving.
I think in reality “rape” is just more of a news story than “car crash.” Really seems obvious to me, actually. Car crashes happen by accident, rape and stabbing takes intention. People being intentionally run over also happens to be a news story usually, fwiw. “Crime” just sells more than “accident.”
Like, a mechanic at your local shop losing a finger is a rare possibility, but unless you live in a small town where it was literally the only thing that happened this week it won’t even be on your local news at 11 either, but if his coworker chases him around the shop and cuts his finger off you bet your ass it’ll be covered by the tri-state area.
In any case I never claimed car crashes were a myth, I claimed that “crime has dropped to pre-pandemic levels” means there’s still plenty crime, as there was pre-pandemic. You saying you’d leave your phone plugged in on the subway and walk to one of those “bathrooms?”
I’m saying you can’t call one mode of transportation “unsafe” while completely ignoring the elephant that is the dangers of driving.
Interestingly, a not-insignificant number of sexual assaults by strangers happen in parking lots, apparently because victims are often alone, and there’s nobody else around. But those don’t tend to make the news.
Now find all the deaths on the highway in the last month :)
I’m not claiming that there’s not more deaths on the highway, that’d be crazy considering the highways span the entire country rather than the NYC metro area and also carry more people than the subways, so like, simply by raw numbers “duh.”
the highway network in the United States had a total length of around 4.2 million statute miles. One statute mile is approximately equal to 5,280 feet.
NYC subway length: 248 mi (399 km) (route length) 665 mi (1,070 km) (track length, revenue) 850 mi (1,370 km) (track length, total)
Yeah 4.2 million miles compared to 248 miles? Again I’m required to say “duh.”
Conversely, though I never claimed The Highways were paragons of safety, others claimed the Subway is, when in fact the crime is simply “back down to pre-pandemic levels” which is to say “very much still there, but better, sure.”
So compare the deaths per mile traveled, per time travelled, per person who uses each as their main mode of transport, whichever metric you think would give a good representation of the relative risk of taking the subway versus driving on the highway
Our public transit doesn’t have bathrooms or phone chargers :(
Ya’ll have a bathroom on your light rail? Are we still talking about simple metro systems are is that not a full-blown “train”(I put it quotes because they’re all trains, but you get the idea).
It’s like halfway between a train and a tram and it goes partially underground.
I think light rail is the right name?
To me, a light-rail is something that operate within a municipality. Like, it’s for commuting and isn’t too intense, but differs from a subway because it is not strictly underground. Having a bathroom in a light-rail setup would be like having one on a metro whereas having a bathroom on an inter-city train makes a whole lot more sense.
It’s really sad, but for perspective, take that crime of theft, multiple it by tens of thousands up to millions of times larger, and you have the CEO’s, the oligarchs, the billionaires, the POTUS.
We know how to fix this - it starts with holding their biggest crooks accountable, then making sure everyone has their basic needs met, social trust gets restored as people are no longer desperate.
You’re awesome, just thought I needed to say that.
Yeah, but having your phone stolen is much more immediate and tangible.
It is sad. It wasn’t always like this. When I was growing up I could walk anywhere as a kid and every adult on the block had their eye on me. A lot has changed in NYC in 40 years.
My brother in Christ, NYC was fucking wild in the 80’s. How are you even comparing?
It was, but neighbors were more aware and vigilant. People spent more time outside in the streets in residential areas, and knew their neighbors. I remember walking with my sister to get Italian ices when I was no more than 10 years old, and every other building had neighbors out front waving hello. We also couldn’t do anything we shouldn’t be doing without someone yelling from across the way. Now the same neighborhood seems lifeless and desolate. People just stay inside and mind their own. It’s just not as communal as it used to be.
You should read “Death and Life of Great American Cities” by Jane Jacobs, because it talks about this. Basically, having more people on the sidewalk makes for healthier, safer, neighborhoods. Having everyone drive instead of walking is really bad for pretty much every metric we care about- safety, the environment, economic activity.
I will. Thanks for the recommendation!
but there’s crazy people on the subway
You don’t think there’s crazy people on the highway? And on the highway they’re controlling a 2 ton killing machine in a sometimes stressful situation.
I’ll take the crazy guy yelling in the corner of the subway then see what he’s like behind the wheel of one of those huge pickup trucks during traffic.
I’m with you but driver’s licenses are meant to help weed those out. I think they are likely rarer but not uncommon.
^^^
Yeah like what the fuck? Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die. This is absolutely a trillion times worse than the slim chance of getting a subway car lit on fire lol
Then you are not giving the proper distance. If you experience this every time you drive you are probably the problem.
If you can’t conceive of a situation where you need to slam the breaks due to external factors despite following the recommended 2-second following distance, you’re ignorant of the depths of bad driving. Have you really never been cut off before?
I would go so far as to say that if you’re not noticing at least a single example of dangerous driving nearly every time you leave the house, you’re probably not aware enough to be a safe driver.
Every time? No. If it happens every time, you’re the problem. This shit is outta pocket. Or you live in thunderdome.
Just a fairly normal North American city, actually. So yeah - thunderdome.
Dear diary,
I met mad max today, great driver, very aggressive.
Sometimes it’s “just” a dead girl hit by a speeding SUV a couple blocks away from their school. Even something as simple as a bit of extra speed has a remarkable influence on life or death. Both in avoiding and mitigating harm.
Not as exciting as Max Max, but nice movie reference.
Brakes, not breaks.
And no way are you driving safely if that happens every day.
I only drive safely on the days I choose to drive - and yet, I somehow still always see unsafe driving every day.
I would go so far as to say that if you’re not noticing at least a single example of dangerous driving nearly every time you leave the house
Dangerous driving, not slam the brakes every time lol
Also those scary moments are fun. Maybe that’s just a me thing though.
Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die
What highway is this?
Fury road.
If you’re having near death experiences every single day, that has to be something you’re doing wrong.
pssh. they’re both easy.
I remember going to NYC for a gig and I had a hotel in Manhattan and I got a lift from a coworker going to Long Island. That highway drive scared the shit out of me. He was changing lanes without signalling and weaving in and out of traffic.
I was gonna tell my account manager about it but my account manager said something like, oh he gave you a lift? did you know he was too scared to drive on the highway until I taught him how?
There are set of rules that everyone follows, so it’s more like an orchestrated dance. If you don’t know the rules, that’s fair to be freaked out in those situations. In Seattle, we have drivers from all over the world with they’re own rules, that’s got its own issues. I think NYC does too, but most people from somewhere else get a ride from someone who knows the rules, like you, or walk or whatever.
What he’s describing aren’t rules for driving in NYC, it’s just an asshole driver. People generally drive more quickly and more closely together here (the same way we walk), but the weaving in and out is a dick move
That’s fair, I didn’t catch the part that it was on the highway. You do have to weave a bit downtown.
Got it. The rule in Manhattan is just be assertive. Everyone is suffering driving, and everyone knows it. If you’re assertive people will let you in, if you’re not people are going to blow past you.
This has, however, gotten much easier with congestion pricing
Either way you risk a possibility of being rear-ended.
Conservative men are terrified of everything. Perpetual fear and petty grievances are the cornerstones of the entire conservative ethos.
I’ve never almost died on a bus.
I can’t speak for NY, but…
In Los Angeles I used the busses, subway, and trains for two to three years going to work. For one year it was an hour each way riding 2 trains. After that, it was 2.5 hours each way switching between busses and trains five times.
While I truly appreciated the Metro, it was often not fun. Usually everything and everyone was fine. But, at times I’d be riding with drugged up dangerous acting people. Other times just super annoying people. Sometimes the trains would be packed shoulder to shoulder full of people. And sometimes, in the middle of LA, the train would stop, and say “everybody off” without an explanation, and everyone would exit the train and have to figure out where to go.
Once I was able to drive myself, I no longer had to worry about any of the issues I had before. All I had to deal with was traffic jams. Annoying, but I did feel safer.
Yeah, but LA has a shitty public transport system.
Take a look at any major European city. Subway systems with a train interval of 2 minutes that get you across the whole city in 40 minutes max.
I’m more terrified of driving a car in a city than on a highway. In a city one small mistake can mean killing a child or something. On the highway I can go at a moderate speed in the right lane without distractions.
Either way I prefer rails tho
In my state, statistics show that there are more fatalities on rural roads than in metro areas… and 80% of us live in the metro areas.
My car is 900kg with a straight-through muffler. No kid is going under it. Just don’t drive a tank through school zones.
straight-through muffler
I hope you throw a rod through the oil pan.
If you don’t like it, I’ll take it off.
Already afraid of this on an e bike.
Saw a mom walking on the road (next to a perfectly available sidewalk) with her small child following her 2 meters behind her.
Fucking hell if that kid randomly ran to my side, I would have hit her.
I hate this shit so much
I saw a car hit a teenager on a bike the other day. Dragged the kid a bit and then just sped off.
Somehow the kid seemed fine. Got up and rode off after a moment.
This was in Brooklyn, by Barclays center (a very crowded spot). Fuck cars and double fuck irresponsible turds that would drive off after nearly killing someone.
Context to the subway?
In America the metro is seen as where there are lots of poor people and drug addicts and the rich people tend to prefer to buy fancy cars and drive them.
It’s kind of the same logic as to why america is one of the few countries where the poor people tend to live in the city center, but the rich people out in the suburbs.
This is a gross simplification. Public transportation IS full of mentally ill people and the homeless, and lots of women feel unsafe on busses and trains. It’s not the rich who prefer personal vehicle transport; everyone does
Counterpoint, the highways are also full of mentally ill people and statistically it’s more risky to drive than take the bus / train.
I think people fear violent death more than they fear accidental death. If american cities want more people to ride public transportation, they need to clean up public transportation. If you’ve been outside of the US you see how countries with far fewer resources than us do a lot more with their public transportation.
They’re cleaner, less noisy, and the police will actually do something about antisocial behavior on the trains. Until we have something like that in thr US, I will avoid taking the bus
You know what really “cleans up” public transportation? More people riding it than just those who have no other choice. I grew up in Boston, lots of people rode the subway, I never felt unsafe. Now I live in Phoenix, the bus system sucks so bad I couldn’t even tell you what it feels like to ride one because I never have, anywhere I want to go would take at least 2 routes if not 3, with nearly an hour wait at each connection, I could seriously ride a bicycle there quicker, and have, even in 110°+ heat, at least in my younger days- damn near gave myself heat stroke last time I tried which was ~5 years ago… I have at least ridden the light rail, which isn’t terrible, but doesn’t run very frequently, and isn’t that close to my house, and doesn’t go that many interesting places… I could take the kids to the science center, but it’s a bit long for them to walk to our nearest stop, about a mile and a half… There’s a park & ride, but at that point, we might as well take the car…
I think control has a lot to do with it as well. We feel better when we’re in control and on a subway you are most definitely not in control of the vehicle, or the people inside it. Regardless that it’s statistically safer than driving. I think people feel safer driving because they feel in control. Drivers can choose the route, who is in their vehicle, and when to stop. Those are things that we feel when we assess risk, even if it’s counter intuitive.
Well it’s also way more convenient to drive in most places. Public transportation in most American cities doesn’t work well
Broken glass, fire, impalement, road rash, and being thrown around like a rag doll… thinking highway death isn’t violent is just a very fortunate lacking in imagination.
That’s a very stretched definition of “full of”.
Pre-pandemic I rode the subway to work every day. I’d see a handful of clearly unwell people on the train a week. I’d also see thousands of seemingly put-together people in that time. Is a milk jug full of milk and one jellybean full of jellybeans?
I cannot speak authoritatively for women, but my understanding is most of the danger comes from men. Not mentally unwell people, not the homeless, just regular men. Being unwell or desperate doesn’t help, but it’s not the only source of danger.
Furthermore, not everyone prefers personal vehicle transport. Maybe people prefer mass transit for a variety of reasons.
It’s so much more than this, and it just seems like you don’t have any experience that you’re drawing from. My main experience is the subway in Manhattan (and trains from NJ to get there). You go from the chronically late trains in NJ, to the poor infrastructure in NY, and whether or not the train smells like piss, or there’s someone who I am desperately trying to to avoid making eye contact with, just ends up being the cherry on top of what was an unenjoyable and often unnecessarily long trip.
I’ve rarely had a subway that smells like piss. The last time I had a stench on the train was years ago. It’s not always “so clean I would eat off the seats” but the NYC subway is much better than people who don’t ride it imagine it.
Most of the people on the train are just people trying to get someplace.
Rode on the subway the first time last year. My wife has a super sensitive nose so her experience was a little different. But for the average person, I seriously doubt the subway is even that big of a deal like you said. It smelled my the mechanic shop my dad worked at. Grease and metal. And maybe we didn’t hit a rush hour, but it wasn’t all that crowded either. I was a bit bummed no one was break dancing. Stupid youtube always lying to me.
I think there were crackdowns on the “Showtime kids” (aka the kids that dance on the train). A lot of people have no soul and get cranky about them. I mean, they’re mildly disruptive and probably occasionally fuck up, but it’s also only a couple minutes, and sometimes it’s pretty impressive.
People who don’t live here think it’s like The Warriors. They picture roving gangs of murderous criminals, live wires sparking everywhere, and insane people screaming Eldritch horrors. This is not accurate.
Okay, it’s not that bad, but it’s also not the kind and peaceful utopia people in this thread are trying to make it out to be.
Let’s be real: they’re terrified that they might be forced to be near poor people, minorities, gays, and mentally ill folk.
Their “News tm” is constantly telling them cities are hellholes full of junkies and murderers and murderous junkies.
Most of them have no clue how the world outside their pickup truck windows works.
or they could be, like me, mentally ill folk who really cannot handle being forced to be around other people
But generalizations are fun aren’t they!
Every single conservative man is mentally ill?
His username is angry autist, just BTW. Bit of a hint there.
Add a little nuance to your argument and I’ll engage
Also you didn’t parse the sentence correctly, I was specifically referring to MY mental illnesses
Add a little nuance & good faith to your conclusion on my initial statement, and I’ll engage, too! Maybe you should re-read things to nake sure you’re not misunderstanding something.
— Sincerely, someone who is also struggles with mental illness, including severe anxiety & agoraphobia.
Nothing in my statement said conservatives, you made that up out of bad faith so why are you demanding good faith now?
Why cripple myself with rules you refuse to follow?
…did you not read the text of which this entire post is about, or…?
Um, that’s not my post. That’s not even from lemmy.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
You arent the main character bruh
Everyone is the main character of their story.
His story is other peoples stories are the same as his story.
It’s pretty telling your response to my ‘I struggle to live like normal people’ is ‘get over yourself’
Fuck all the directions of off you rancid smegma farmer
I didnt say get over yourself, you literally just made that up
No, I think that’s a fair summary of your attitude.
No, I think thats a fair summary of your attitude.
What a badly tuned LLM you are…
OK, wow. You’re a real piece of shit.
That is an extremely callous thing to say.
No it isnt lmao. Cheer up buttercup 😘
Bingo. I’ve talked to many of them online and it always boils down to this. It’s never that they’re actually in any danger. It’s just they feel scared. They drive their big trucks because it makes them feel safe.
Meanwhile puny me rides the subway daily.
Might surprise you, but on feeling scared: I once heard that a slim majority of SUV drivers were women. In some ways it makes sense - if they’d normally be vulnerable walking the streets alone, a less vulnerable vehicle gives them a feeling of safety.
It’s not a surprise. There’s some good analysis of vehicle advertisements, and one of the big emotions they push with SUV ads is the feeling of being safe in a ‘bad’ situation.
Fear based advertising (in general)
Article that is often quoted about fear in advertising
They’re weak, scared, and pathetic. Too xenophobic to interact with anyone or anything outside their coddled circles that might make them feel “”“uncomfortable”“”.
That’s nice, no medication I’ve found yet lets me ride public transportation without constantly freaking out from human proximity but I bet it is just so pleasant to have a normal brain
One of these things is not like the other
I ride the subway all the time and haven’t been murdered yet. AMA
Ever seen something as cool as pizza rat?
Rat wise, no, unless you want to count the inflatable
So you are the one doing the murders then?
I hate being within arms reach of people so fuck your subways and your neurotypical ease with dealing with ridiculously overstimulating stress-filled situations
If you’re a regular subway rider or grew up riding one (such as my neurodivergent ass) you start to realize that you’re just a person in a sea of people on the train. The anonymizing actually helps with my anxiety.
For you maybe, and my worry isn’t not being anonymous, it’s getting stabbed again
I’m really sorry this happened to you. I hope you are well and that nothing like this ever happens to you again.
Easy, just don’t look like someone who wants to get stabbed again!
I’m joking, obviously. I’m really sorry that happened to you.
Appreciate it, thankfully it slid off my ribs and only needed stitches but that was nearly half a century ago and I still have to do a lot of mental prep work to sit down that close to strangers
Also as for your ‘don’t look like a person who wants to get stabbed again’ line, I know you made it as a joke but statistically autists are targeted for violence by abusers and those abusers describe it all as visual cues that lead them to violence so maybe something to consider.
Are people really downvoting you for being stabbed?
It’s the typical ‘Terrible things never happen because they haven’t happened to me’ mentality
I never thought I’d see this platform act like this towards someone with a disability, especially considering how many people here are likely on the spectrum.
Honestly rotten behaviour.
lemmy is going the way of reddit at a record pace and as usual the mods and admins don’t care
Dude is weaponizing his disability, go through his comments. He lives up to his name and goes off on just about everyone
With the attitude you have towards the disabled, I don’t blame them.
Also, why are you assuming they’re a dude?
I’d rather you be uncomfortable in a subway sometimes than the entire world suffer from all the horrible things personal car ownership does.
Or you know, buses and trains for people that can handle them, and cars for people who can’t
If you envision a world where no accommodation is made for those who struggle then you are not a person that should be in charge of anything
Subways are chill in other countries. The USA is insane.
My fear of being stabbed again isn’t 100% rational and won’t just go away because I cross an imaginary geographic line PEOPLE are insane, just the U.S. has a higher concentration
