- cross-posted to:
- rance@jlai.lu
- cross-posted to:
- rance@jlai.lu
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Funny considering tobacco is a solid American good
Not really. Im not sure the US even produces enough for themselves anymore.
Doing his part to bring down America.
If you’re trying to get lung cancer … get lung cancer with style
Lung cancer or mystery disease/popcorn lung. You choose
Nobody has gotten popcorn lung from vaping
Hah, so that was just a myth. Thanks.
Don’t laugh … my wife has pulmonary fibrosis … it’s basically a mysterious inflammation of the lungs with your immune system running haywire. No one knows what causes it or what triggered it … all we know is that it is happening. They suspect it was originally a virus of some kind (this all started about three / four years before the pandemic). There is no cure, there is no remedy, there is no healing, there is no recovery. It only grows worse with time, spreads through the lungs and drowns you to death as you run out of healthy lung to breathe.
Take care of your lungs everyone.
I’m sorry man that sounds horrible. I hope for some kind of innovation in this field for your wife
Sadly no … it’s an immune dysfunctional disease … basically a broken immune system that is destroying itself from the inside. It’s a very complex thing to try to figure out. The more we studied it and read about it, the more we began to realize that we are all just living with a very delicate machine inside our bodies … the wrong thing, at the wrong time, in the wrong place, in the right circumstances will trigger your lungs to react and never stop. It can be caused by a fungus, virus, bacteria, dust, pollen, chemicals, particles, whatever. It’s the main reason why we should be careful about what we breathe in, that we shouldn’t smoke and wear masks in industrial, farming, construction, agriculture, commercial kitchens, etc.
It’s like driving around everywhere with a glass ball that you should never break. The glass ball is pretty durable and tough and takes a bit of a beating but if you ever come across something that will break or crack it … you will never be able to get it back to what it was.
When it hurts to breathe its a particularly frustrating type of pain
Someone in my family had this. Im really sorry that you have to face this. I hope you have a lot of time remaining with them.
My uncle had that. My heart goes out to you both.
Vaping isn’t carcinogenic.
We don’t know for sure yet.
For example here is a study seemingly published by the department of subdomains and acronyms: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11773639/
RESULTS
We included 39 studies in the main analysis and 12 in the subgroup analysis. Of these, 2 were longitudinal observational studies, 9 were cross-sectional studies, 1 case report and 27 were cell/in vitro and animal studies. All human studies were conducted in adults, and about half of them had a low risk of bias. No significant incident or prevalent risk of lung cancer or other types of cancer was found in the never smoker current vapers population. However, there was substantial biomarker-based evidence of a significant association between e-cigarette exposure and oxidative stress, cellular apoptosis, DNA damage, genotoxicity, and tumor growth, particularly following acute exposure. We did not find any age or sex-based differences in cancer risk, and findings on race and education-based differences were insufficient.
CONCLUSIONS
There is substantial evidence that e-cigarette exposure is associated with biomarkers reflective of cancer disease risk. However, the overall evidence on cancer risk is still limited and should be further investigated by future research, particularly rigorously designed clinical trials and population-based research.
Either way, purposefully inhaling toxic chemicals is pretty stupid.
the department of subdomains and acronyms: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11773639/
Most aptly named department since The Redundant Department of Redundancy
Most aptly named department since The Redundant Department of Redundancy
Can’t believe they came up with that sham when we already had the perfectly adequate Department of Redundancy Department
Luckily, they later discovered the oversight and merged. Only to then split into 16 identical departments.
Vaping is less carcinogenic than smoking by a significant degree but it is carcinogenic
Acrolein, a carcinogen, forms in small amounts from the breakdown of glycerin during heating
If a “dry hit” occurs the effect is worsened, acrolein forms in higher amounts, and formaldehyde (another carcinogen) can occur from the breakdown of both glycerin and propylene glycol
Vaping still leads to inflammation and oxidative stress in the lungs and long term use will almost certainly lead to irreversible damage
Harm reduction is important. Vaping is likely better than smoking but it is not yet clear whether that is the case. It is likely the case based on short term anecdotal data from people who have switched but this does not mean that long term use won’t create more severe lung issues over a period of 20-30 years. We don’t know.
In the meantime for further harm reduction to reduce risk you can vape with low temperatures as this mitigates much of the carcinogen risk, you can use reusable devices and frequently change coils and ensure the coil is saturated, and you can use a liquid that is free of flavorings as these present much of the “unknown” variables.
Or you can work to quit. It is challenging. I smoked and vaped, I know it is tremendously hard. But frankly these companies don’t deserve your money. They’re all fucking scumbags
Well said. I smoked a pack a day for 17 years and finally quit a little over a year ago. Lots of people around me quit around the same time but just ended up exchanging the habit for something else like vaping, chewing, or the new fad: nicotine pouches. It made me feel even better to be entirely nicotine free.
For anyone curious, I used nicotine gum from Costco for the first 2 months to help. It tastes like shit and is not enjoyable at all, but I don’t know if I could have done it without.
I think consciously choosing unpleasant methods to get nicotine helped me quit, or at least made quitting a little easier. I understand if you’re making that choice you’re probably well on your way to quitting anyways, but for me it was a good reminder of the goal.
Congrats on quitting. Shit is super hard
To clarify things from my post: I didn’t even touch upon the environmental harm from vaping. If you use disposable vapes you’re kind of a shithead that is wasting a ton of lithium, that is mined by literal slaves, for your 2 day smoking device that you’ll probably not recycle properly. People recycle these batteries to power e bikes and literal homes. Vape shops with racks of these plastic boxes filled with single use 18650 (or similar high discharge) batteries are an environmental disaster
Nicotine pouches and gum lower the lung risk but are another space where long term risk is unknown.
They do irritate the gums and raise the risk of gum disease
Nicotine in general, gum or pouch, negatively impacts brain development and strains the cardiovascular system.
The acidity from the pouches still irritates the airway and oral mucosa and the constant increase of mucus production can lead to chronic bronchitis
The vasoconstriction effect of nicotine means that there is still potential lung involvement due to decreased blood flow even though it is not inhaled
Nicotine in low doses has some effects similar to adderall or methylphenidate but unlike those medications it tends to increase blood pressure and on long timelines create cardiovascular problems even in low doses. additionally it’s far more addictive (though tbf this is possibly/probably due to ease of access) and most users tend to use a fairly substantial amount, 20-40mg for a pack a day smoker, 35mg for someone who burns through a 5% juul pod in a day, etc
The gum is typically used short term and is actually marketed as a cessation device so that’s one thing but the pouches are huge now as you’ve said. It’s somewhat telling that for a minute they were big with the right wing grifter crowd
If you are going to get cancer, at least look cool.
- The French
Cigarettes look so uncool, though. Hardly a step up from vapes and they fuckin stiiiinnnnk.
I would much rather be near someone vaping their blueberry muffin raztastic whatever than a lit cigarette
Vaping can smell like watermelon, Fruit Loops, etc, but then it’s gone. Cigarettes stink up the surrounding area, seep indoors, when people do it at entrances, and it lingers. Plus the smoker themselves will have it clinging to them…
I mean, I hate it when I’m walking down a street and I get the stink of something sickly sweet wafting over
I honestly put vapes in the same tier of “takes me out of the moment and ruins anything I’m enjoying then”
It’s gone in a few seconds, unlike actual cigarette smoke
I fuckin hate cigarette smoke, vape isn’t great but it’s also not nearly as long-lasting or staining or… Really at all as bad
Yes, but it’s much more common for people to be walking around and just take a puff of their vape rather than start smoking a cigarette
It absolutely ruins a nice breakfast out when somebody vapes walking past
Yeah it’s just a meme, people smoke waaay less in France today. Back in the nineties it was a whole other world.
This. I smoked cigs for such a long time, now on vape. It’s 100% better. You feel better, your teeth are better, list goes on. Sure it’s not the best, we all should quit smoking. But it’s better than nasty ass cigs that stay on your clothes, car, makes your teeth yellow and the list goes on.
There is nothing better than a cig, a glass of whiskey, in a hot tub naked on a cold day. But I don’t want that everyday.
If you’re used to secondhand smoke they don’t smell bad, even good because of the slight nicotine buzz, and I assume everyone in that country is used to secondhand smoke.
Vapers minding their own business, pretending vaping is healthier.
Pretending? I’m not gonna say vaping is healthy, but it definitely isn’t as bad for you as cigarettes. I made the switch years ago just because I wanted to see if I could stop smoking cigarettes, and within the first week or two my lungs felt noticeably better. I’ve been gradually lowering the nicotine level in the juices I use and will hopefully ween myself off vaping too.
This is the right way to vape.
Should be used as a way to quit smoking.People that vape as an alternative to smoking cigarettes end up chain vaping. It’s just too convenient.
That’s why i ditched my dab pen a few years ago. It was just too easy to lay on the couch and hit that all night, becoming ungodly high without realizing it. Now i go outside an smoke a joint so i EARN that ungodly high
It’s what it was advertised as originally, but then brands realized they could boom in sales by dropping that act and making cute, colorful cartridges with a shit ton of flavors that appeal to teens. Some girl had these iPod case looking ones that were flavored like pineapple banana or smth. Hell they make vapes disguised as school supplies now.
There’s a lot of people who didn’t do drugs at all that started with vaping (Truth Initiative has a 2020 study about it, I skimmed it tbh), and it’s especially bad in middle and high schools. I saw people hitting huge fucking clouds in the middle of a classroom, near the teacher’s desk. One idiot made a cloud in our dark classroom with the curtains shining sunlight on him, so they had to close the blinds and fan the cloud so he wouldn’t get caught.
They know full well they’re creating future addicts and eventual cigarette smokers, and they don’t give a damn.
The Netflix doc also covers how Juul hired the wrong guy to do thier commercials.
He’s the dude famous for making the iPod pastel silhouette commercials. Hip and sexy.
Juul started by wanting to help people quit. Then some influencer was vaping on stream and it blew the hell up in short order amongst younger crowds.
What really pisses me off is the synthetic THC Juul carts teens were smoking that fucked them up. They did that to themselves by trying to do drugs using a Juul. Juul and the legit vaping industry took all that backlash. The news and even CDC spouted bullshit in the name of sparing kids. No one clarified that they were smoking bootleg weed (illegal drugs) and Juul/legal vaping wasn’t at fault.
So adults that were vaping to quit ciggs switched back to ciggs to never quit. I was a vaper during that time and I can’t tell you how many people I set straight when they said “that’ll kill you” while they’re smoking ciggs.
I had the same journey and now have been smoke/vape free for 2 years.
Same. Was smoking 2 packs per day for a while. Completely switched to vaping. Lowered the nicotine content of the juice a couple times and eventually was able to quit entirely. Been almost 6 years now.
I’m not sure what the scene is like now that all the strong cartridges and disposable devices are more popular. Back when I was doing it most people used box mods and it was easy to find juice in any flavor and strength you wanted. I remember things got pretty wild right around when I quit actually, with many states doing temporary bans and eventually banning flavors and stuff
Boom, same. Must be like 3 or 4 years now. It’s a great tool for that if you don’t fall into the hobby trap.
Compared to smoking? Probably.
Almost certainly, but there are some caveats. Vitamin E was added to some around 2020 and that really fucked people up. The much higher nicotine percentage could also be doing damage we haven’t had enough time to fully understand as well. There’s also concern around the metal coils breaking down, especially when people ‘dry hit’ or use a coil after it’s spent. That being said, normal vaping is almost certainly safer than smoking
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I feel like vapers vape more on average than smokers smoke. This is purely anecdotal, but if its true, then that complicates things.
AFAIK, you have to apply nicotine quite frequently to achieve a steady state and avoid withdrawal – every 30–45 minutes. 10–20 years ago, every single smoker I asked smoked > 20 cigarettes. Today, almost all admit to only 10–15, which is pharmacologically too infrequent and triggers multiple withdrawal–relaps cycles every day, worsening the nicotine addiction.
To handle drugs which are so addictive, you need a stable steady state, not fluctuating pladma levels. If you want to lower your dose, you cannot lower the frequency, you have to lower the dose of each application.
If vapers would vape every 30–45 min ≈ 20/day, they would stabilize their nicotine level, which would enable them to reduce the dose of nicotine over time.
10-15 a day works presuming you aren’t awake for all 24 hours
It doesn’t work like that at all. Not everyone who smokes has a pack a day habit. It varies wildly and doesn’t require some uniform steady state.
Someone who has a morning cigarette just wants a morning cigarette. Social smokers may not even smoke everyday.
It’s just that those who DO make the habit more frequent, pack a day etc., will maintain THAT level.
Those who use vaporizers are able to create different patterns because of the nature of the device. Doesn’t have a finite time limit like a single cigarette and differing nicotine amounts, etc.
I definitely got my vape more than I used to smoke cigs. However it’s only one or two puffs usually. A whole cigarette is many more puffs.
I don’t know if it equals out or one is more. I will say vaping feels better than cigarettes.
Well, I certainly can’t burn the house down anymore.
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Had a wretched smoker’s cough for years, took me an extra 10 minutes to cough it out and get out of bed. Stopped 2 weeks after going to vaping.
OTOH, 10 years later vaping became too much, now I do those nicotine pouches. Very happy with those.
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Is there enough data to support that claim? Not really disagreeing, i genuinely don’t know. There was a time where your doctor would tell you to smoke camels, because these are the healty cigarettes.
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You know what they say…
When in Paris,
Run away.
J’ai trouvé le français !
Nah, fuck all these other guys, he was right. 🤣
i don’t think highly of people who smoke but I think much less of people who think it’s cool. at least if you’re embarrassed and apologetic about it I will still consider you a person.
Americans are lame, aren’t they?
not in this aspect, they have better attitude towards smoking than most of the world
I wouldn’t say that. In most of the world it is discouraged, but in the US they are zealots when it comes to smoking.
There is nothing criminal about smoking, and people should not be ostracized for it.
It’s a serious public health concern. It affects everyone.
It affects everyone that smokes.
Because second-hand smoke doesn’t exist…
yeah because the smoke carefully avoids nonsmokers.
In my experience it seeks out nonsmoker’s.
It doesn’t affect me to inhale the second-hand smoke of the asshole smoking at the table next to me? I think it does.
So, the health effects of smoking are born only by the smoker? There are no economic impacts on the general public? Not to mention second-hand smoke.
Having a healthier society benefits everyone. Having a large portion of the population engage in behaviors that hurt public health is harmful to everyone.
That isn’t to say it should be illegal necessarily, but it should be heavily discouraged. That includes by government policy.
it should be criminal and people certainly should be ostracized for it. fuck smokers. I’d rather have heroin addicts in my vicinity.
Did a smoker fuck your wife, by any chance?
you’re the one cucking for smokers so I don’t know what you mean. but my wife doesn’t smell like shit all the time so I can safely say no.
smokers infringe on the rights of everyone around them. they can suck shit. hell, they’d probably stink less if they did.
Fuck smokers! hahaha. Mmm lung cancer, sounds awesome
“No me toques, Frog.”
If they used adult diapers instead of toilets in France would you suddenly think it was sophisticated to make us all smell your shitty diaper? So now the rest of us get to choke on your poisonous smoke while you kill yourself slowly. Vaping is just as stupid as smoking but vaping doesn’t force non-smokers to have to smell your nastiness. If you smoke, please just find a faster way to kill yourself; you stink.
I hope you have kids and that they start smoking in their angst-ridden rebellious phase and become lifelong smokers because of it.
Not only that, but I also hope every time you get to see your kids, you smell smoke on their clothes and when you do, may it remind you of this time on lemmy when you said all smokers should find a faster way to kill themselves.
Having kids with the world as it is? That is entirely too cruel. Have some heart.
If you smoke, please just find a faster way to kill yourself
I think thats a bit too rough, you need to calm down a little :)
Unfathomably based
Plot twist: it was a wax pen.
reject modernity, embrace tradition
Or just stop smoking?
Not an option in France
Hey look it’s a person who’s never been addicted to anything
No, no… they’re onto something.
Ignoring the realities of addiction is what they’re onto
The reality is that it is hard to quit, but even addicts who haven’t even tried will tell you that. I think it should be encouraged.
It is, in fact, possible to quite smoking. I was a regular smoker for a decade. My fiancee asked me to quit, so I did. Haven’t had a cigarette or vape since. That was over a decade ago.
Yes, it’s difficult, and not everyone is able to quit as easily as I did. But don’t pretend like it’s impossible to quit.
i quit for a year and a half, then i made the conscious choice to get back on it because life is so utterly shit i might as well enjoy my vices
How come this type of xenophobia is acceptable?
gestures broadly
wat
Anti-american is hot now… I mean it was before too but it is still right now also!
gross
Oh yeah, even higher chance of cancer, what’s not to love
certainly not the disgusting smell that’s for sure
Don’t be so sure about that one.
More research needs to be done, but all the evidence points to vaping being vastly safer than smoking. Of course, your lungs are meant to inhale air and nothing else, so neither is still the best option
Talk for yourself, but I, as a homo sapiens, evolved from a fish. So my Lungs are actually made to breathe water.
This comment was sent from atlantis.
Aw weather controlling atlantean jews. Always knew this was the inevitable conclusion.
seems like lack of regulation resulted in a number of high profile serious cases of harm
obviously smoking is bad but saying vaping is vastly safer assumes best case on one side and worse case on the other
If you don’t want to vape that’s fine but acting like it is worse than smoking is crazy. Just don’t buy sketchy refills or any thc vapes in non legal states. Or you could make your own pretty cheaply.
except a number of those were not from sketchy sources so much as the supply chain is itself sketch
that includes the do it yourself juice
so unless you are doing something dry and even then tests on a number of weed products show really bad chemicals in a number of legit dispense products
so yea unless you are growing the shit yourself the industry is kinda the wild west still atm
but yea sig makers have been caught a number of times doing this shit too, they are just more regulated atm
Oh come on, my guy. This is the perfect set-up. Do I need to make a sprog account just to follow you around and show you up?
“Stop smoking those!” the people said, as Timmy dragged away.
“You know those things’ll kill you!” for the fourteenth time that day.
But Timmy’s breaks were longer, since he took the habit on,
and now he was addicted, smoking cigs from dusk to dawn.
So, when a woman stopped and said "I know a better form,
you needn’t even quit the stuff, nor need you fear the harm!"
poor Timmy went right down the street and filled his pockets full
of cartridges and flavored oils and other random bull.
He puffed away then on his vape, and brushed his fears aside,
But glycol soon accumulates, and Timmy fucking died.
Nice one! Forgot about poem for your sprog, they still around?
They are. Their last post on Reddit was 16 days ago.
I don’t consume any nicotine myself, but it seems that letting people use nicotine in a way that is less harmful to their health is a good idea.
There have been specific statements made that express that you shouldn’t use nicotine:
That’s Zyn and not Vapes
I agree it seems that “smokeless tobacco” means “consuming tobacco by putting it in your mouth rather than putting nicotine into air and inhaling it”. I assumed that “smokeless tobacco” included “vaporized nicotine”, probably due to my unfamiliarity with nicotine products.
Regardless, it seems that using a vape leads to less harm than using cigarettes:
