What about gravity? I know I read something about this once, but is gravity also limited to the speed of light?
Yeah, we’ll feel it after 8 minutes all right :-)
Gravity travels at the speed of light.
Does it? In my experience alcohol can delay gravity
From what I know, particles that have a mass greater than 0 move below the speed of light and can never reach it. Particles that have no mass (every force is transferred via particles) move at the speed of light. So there is no way to have anything that is faster than the speed of light, not even forces.
But do we know that gravity is a force transfered by a particle yet?
Yep, it is. We’d stay in our orbit of the sun for 8 minutes after it vanished too
I believe we’d still be warm for those 8 minutes. We have an 8 minute grace period before having to do anything, then enough time to add sweaters faster than earth cools.
I was forced to calculate the black body temperature and radiation for the Earth, back in college by hand.
I decided for fun to zero out the sun from the equation to see what would happen.
My math came out to about -32°C average surface temperature.
Earth would become an ice planet.
I think you’d uh, need a bit more than a sweater in those conditions 😅
People live in those temperatures in places like remote Russia, right?
So.
The Antarctic. Roughly. Everywhere. Including the equator cuz that’s not a thing anymore.
Are there any places that would be “warm” for any reason if you recall?
Like, I assume the oceans would survive until the core stops and the planet truly dies?
… so yes, the oceans could remain warm enough to harbor life still.
It’s sweaters all the way down. You have time to order from China shipped by boat before -32C happens. You’re just being a “save the sun” hippy climate alarmist /s. Energy company shareholders would benefit from high demand, so saving the sun is just selfish of you :P
I’m just imagining you shuffling out wearing six layers of different colored sweaters on the frozen tundra surface, lmao
We’re for the jobs the fossil fuels will provide.
it’s because light takes 8 minutes to get from the sun to us. and since gravity also travels at the speed of light our orbit would only change after 8 minutes.
Teacher: I meant the global we. So it would average out to 8 minutes.
Someone at day will inform sun is missing to the people on night
A person can’t inform others faster than the speed of light.
Fraction of a second for transmitting information from one side of earth to other side. And teacher only said 8 minutes and the seconds are ommitted as there is always an error margin since distance from sun is not constant.
Also i assume signals are always sent from other side of the earth
But collectively nine women can have a baby in one month.
this guy money balls
In a sane world this would earn you a dunce hat. In this one it will earn you a position in the gubmint.
Is a position on the gubmint good or bad?
That’s boring.
Can we just have the reverse, like a “When Day Breaks” scenario? At least its fun.
i mean, if the moon is up there, the light first has to bounce off of the moon, and then back to earth, so yes, it would most definitely take longer…
the light first has to bounce off of the moon, and then back to earth
That’s a second, more or less.
The real question is if the earth becomes a rogue planet or if Jupiter captures most/all of the remaining solar system. Jupiter is technically a failed star, so could it finally get it’s glowup from being the sun’s understudy and keep us all together until we fall into the gravitational well of a new star?
If the sun just disappears, I doubt even having another sun would keep everything from flying off to fuck knows where. Jupiter, by comparison, is beyond hope. The Barycenter is far from Jupiter.
But will we feel the shift in gravity/inertia as the planet starts moving straight?
I really doubt we would notice, because if so we would already be feeling different during day and night. The sun pulls us toward the sky during the daytime and toward the ground at night. Also toward the east at sunrise and the west at sunset. But none of this seems noticeable.
We are in “free fall” around the Sun so that’s why we don’t feel its pull of gravity.
You would similarly feel weightless if you were in an orbit around Earth.
yes, after 8 minutes
I know gravity moves at the speed of light. I’m just referring to the slight pull of the gravity and the sudden shift to traveling straight off instead of a circle.
All of that will only happen after 8 minutes, see this comment.
Earth has a circular orbit because space-time is curved by the mass of the sun. (Think of a large bowling ball on a trampoline, you can make a small ball travel in circles around it, and if there was no friction, it would go on indefinitely.) When the sun’s mass suddenly disappears (by pure magic, as this would violate many laws of physics), spacetime would flatten out, at the speed of light.
What part of “I know gravity travels at the speed of light” do you not understand, to make you think you’re explaining something to me?
the fact that you don’t understand how the pull of gravity wouldn’t disappear immediately
Lol. You’re a damned idiot. I’m not really sure you can “learn” basic reading comprehension, but maybe you’ll manage it someday.
yes I am the idiot
This is the cutting-edge of my understanding so if I’m wrong somebody call me out, but I think because gravity is warping space-time and not actually pulling anything, we wouldn’t feel an inertia change. Our inertia would be maintained, but the space-time we’re going through would suddenly be shaped different, so we’d follow a new path
The part you’re missing is that earth isn’t a point in space. That’s why there’s tides caused by the sun (which are different than tides caused by the moon)
A person wouldn’t feel the difference, but the tides would slosh back when the solar gravity stops effecting them.
So would all the other planets, so there’d be a non-zero chance we’d smack into one of them. Most likely though we’d become a very, very cold rogue planet.
How do you figure? Space is fucking huge. I don’t see how any planets could collide.
But not by much longer. People on the other side of the world or connected to satellites monitoring sunspots would notice pretty much immediately after the light ceases to reach the earth and would tell everyone else over the internet
Only if you believe in magic box or “radio”
No dude, it’s only a difference of 1.3 seconds, faster then the Internet unfortunately.
Ok, first thing, did you not understand the image is a joke? Secondly, you have failed so badly at trying to use logic. And you’d notice it everywhere on the earth, both because of the moon and also just light scattering, it would become darker than ever before. And as said, most people would be asleep on the dark side, which is obvious. And it’s not like the astronomers etc. have some kind of worldwide siren to get everyone’s attention, most people wouldn’t notice it for a while, even if they posted about it online.
Most of us sleep at night and don’t check our info-hose feeds until we wake up.
What’s sleep?
looks at time that says 23:27
And even if you’re not connected at the moment, the moon will go dark.
Good one! If the moon wasn’t visible at the time and you were just sitting outside say at midnight, I wonder if you would notice anything different.
It would turn pitch black. So dark the stars far away would be the brightest when compared to everything else. It would be scary.
According to astronomers the sun doesn’t have a measurable effect on the night sky when it’s more than 18 degrees below the horizon. So I doubt naked-eye observers would notice.
Certainly not with all the light pollution.
yeah but everybody else would be sleeping so it would still take longer
If it happens at night it will probably take 5 or 6 seconds longer for people to start seeing the first messages on the internet
Wouldn’t the planet rapidly start to cool? I think we’d be dead by morning
Wherever you live on the Earth’s surface starts cooling every night and gets warmed up again the next day. It wouldn’t cool any faster if the sun went away, it would just keep cooling at the normal rate until everything was frozen. But I doubt it would take more than a week or two, depending on where you live.
Yeah, but that’s with petawatts being blasted on the other side of the earth every second, wouldn’t the loss of that make the whole system cool down faster, including the side the sun doesn’t touch? I’m thinking it’d be like having food on a hot plate, bottom is very hot, the top is less hot. But if you take the food off the plate the whole thing rapidly goes to room temp. I honestly have no idea, just conjecture tbh.
The only way to get the right answer would involve doing math and knowing enough climatology and geology to even know which math, so I dunno.
Someone posted a link above, claims it’d take about a week to hit 0°C
Cool, I will take a look. Intuitively that seems about right to me. I was just saying the world definitely wouldn’t freeze overnight.
The core is still hot. If we bury ourselves deep underground, there is a chance the humanity could survive for thousands of years without a sun. If not humanity, then some sort of life will survive long enough for future archeologists to find it millions of years later.
But don’t quite me on this; I’m simply reciting from memory something I read in National Geographic or a similar publication 10-20 years ago. IDK how true this actually is.
We would need enough advance notice to prepare for massively farming mushrooms or something underground to eat. Canned food will run out in a few years, even military MREs have a shelf life. A few lucky people might survive a generation, but there’s a minimal breeding stock requirement to avoid degeneration from inbreeding. Extremely long odds, I think the human race would only survive this event in a sci-fi fantasy story.
I don’t know if I would call them the lucky ones.
If we bury ourselves deep
Yeah, something will live, but I was more thinking surface life.
Doesn’t the earth itself provide a significant amount of heat from the core? I’m sure I read somewhere that for something like every 10 meters down you dig, the temperature raises by 1° celcius. So maybe we’d not notice a temperature drop so quickly?
Not sure how quick exactly, but the earth doesn’t provide enough heat, not even close. I think Kurzgesagt has a video on this subject, pretty sure without the trillions of joules of energy showering the earth every second we’d get awfully cold awfully quick
The surface would eventually freeze over. But some life would almost definitely survive deep underground and underwater, near geothermal vents not unlike those that hosted the first lifeforms on Earth. And, maybe, in some billions or trillions of years, Earth would stray near another star system, get captured by its gravity and slowly thaw out, restarting the evolution of life.
Would hydrothermal vents produce enough heat? Or would the oceans freeze over? And then would there just be thermal bubbles surrounding the vents in oceanic ice?
Even if they were to, there is still the deep biosphere
Fucking fascinating. Thanks for the share
The oceans would eventually freeze over, but the deep ocean could stay liquid for tens of millions of years. Ice is a pretty good insulator, and there is more than one moon in the solar system suspected to have liquid oceans under a layer of ice.
Atmosphere would hold the heat for a bit, the real issues will begin with food shortages because the crops won’t grow
Yeah but how long is a bit? Also, without the gravity center of our solar system, how long would it take for all the planets to start drifting off into the void?
A bit - probably weeks to months. For the second question - 8 minutes for the Earth, since gravity propagates at the speed of light
Expanding a little on the last part, Earth’s orbital velocity is about 29.8 km/s so that’s the speed at which we would suddenly be leaving the former location of the solar system in a direction that depends on what time of year it happened. Regardless of direction though, the escape velocity of the Milky Way around where we are is about 544 km/s so there’s no way we’d be leaving the galaxy. On the other hand the plane of the galaxy is only about 6 degrees off from the galactic center at the moment, so if this happened at the right time of year (don’t know when that is) we could launch somewhat towards the core. We would not however get very close to it because the sun’s own orbital velocity is about 230 km/s so we’d still be in close to the same galactic orbit overall, just potentially a bit more eccentric.
Do you think Jupiter would take over as our center of the solar system? Hopefully it doesn’t sling us into deep space or another planet
I wouldn’t sling us into deep space because we are in deep space and will continue to be in deep space.
I meant like away from the rest of our planets. Space= above earth. Deep space= beyond solar system. No one considers earth space
A bit - probably weeks to months.
no lol
It goes from 85 to 58 in 12 hours right now in reality world“A bit” = 1 day, and by the end of that day it’d be freezing (below freezing if you live in whiteistan)
The irony of the guy replying to you with PHD in his username not understanding that the Sun blasts the Earth with an absolutely unreal amount of energy
there’s something about people who use lots of words that makes them particularly…yea
it’s a new level of ignoring material conditions
I honestly think you’re forgetting the atmosphere and like, physical ground under our feet. It doesn’t generally drop to 0C overnight unless it’s already pretty close to 0C because of the heat trapped in the atmosphere and emanating from the earth’s core. It’s going to be more like a week for most places.
I honestly think you’re forgetting the atmosphere and like, physical ground under our feet.
no im not, you’re forgetting that the sun exists
Max-Min temps (F) yesterday across 3 different continents:
Lucknow 82-53
Mandalay 90-67
Kisangani 91-76
Porto Velho 85-77Temps drop by 22 F at night (avg) around the equator. Most tropical land reaches freezing in 1.5 days if the sun vanishes. Forget temperate.
Best case scenario is Tropical rainforest since water holds heat. Middle of Amazon gets “only” an 8 F (4.4 C) drop in 12 hours, so 3.3 days to reach freezing.
keep in mind that these temp drops occur right now, in reality meatspace, despite “the atmosphere and like, physical ground under our feet”. (both of these exist)
Actually, on second thoughts, this comment explicitly proves that you’re a reactionary hiding their lack of investigation behind accusations of immaterialism - just by applying your own logic to real world numbers, you’ve gone from a day to half a week. You have no place opining on this subject.
Yeah, you’ll notice that your “massive” 22°F is the difference between direct sunlight and no sunlight. Do you think there’s another sun to take away after the first one, to get rid of even more sunlight and drop the temperature another 22°?
Why don’t you believe that physical materials are capable of holding heat energy? Why did you latch on to atmosphere and ground instead of the biggest energy store on the planet, the ocean (you don’t need to answer that we know it’s because those are the ones I named)? Why do you think that the temperature difference between day and night - sunlight and no sunlight - is the same as the general rate at which energy is lost from the planet? Have you not ever been outside at night to discover the largest part of the temperature drop happens as soon as the sun disappears?You’re doing a very good job of the typical liberal application of raw, familiar logic to a new situation, but the only part of it you actually understand is that the sun supplies lots of energy, and haven’t made it any further than that.
And the sun doesn’t generally blink out of existence. Think about how much energy is on the other side of the earth, it’s not like the two sides of earth are separate they are one huge interconnected energy system. What happens on one side impacts the other, and the core doesn’t provide enough energy and the atmosphere is leaking heat constantly
You are also forgetting the atmosphere and ground (and oceans, of course) - It being one huge interconnected energy system is exactly why I’m saying it would take longer. This guy’s calculations reckon we’d lose about 1 degree per 12 hours. January’s global average temperature was around 13°, so that’d be 6 and a half days. July last year it was 17°, so that’d be a whole 8 and a half days. It’s going to be more like a week.
The moon also doesn’t emit it’s own light. It would take longer for the moon to “disappear” than it would for the sun but it wouldn’t be the whole night.
The moon is just a few light-seconds away from earth; that’s why they could have conversations with ground control during the moon landings. Moon will go dark a few seconds after the sun.
I agree with you, but also… I’m not sure that I’d notice that I could see the moon a few minutes ago and now I can’t (unless I happened to be looking at it as it happened)… I feel like that is something that could be happening every single night and I’ve never noticed.
The sun disappearing is like… Super noticeable by comparison.
You would notice the lack of light. The night isn’t pitch black xD
Maybe if I lived in the countryside, here in a city, I only really notice the moon if I’m looking for it (which I do often, I love seeing our moon).
I live in the city and the moonlight is clearly noticeable so I guess it depends. I mean, a city can be considered as such with as little as 50k people so I guess that, statistically, the majority of people that live in a city would most certainly notice the lack of moonlight.
Most cities have brighter light pollution than the moon can provide.
False; no sun = no morning!
I wonder how long it would take before you would feel it becoming colder
If you ever experienced a solar eclipse, you will feel drastically how much the temperature changes.
Forget colder, I kind of feel like we’re missing out on not hearing the sun thanks to space
I wonder if we would feel the sudden disappearance of the centripetal force of the sun’s gravity.
After 8 minutes, almost certainly
http://scienceprimer.com/lunar-and-solar-tides
Yes, the tidal effect of the sun would disappear, and that would probably make the oceans all fucky suddenly (after an 8 minutes lag).
Does gravity travel at the speed of light?
The speed of light is more than just the speed of light. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Not particles, not gravitational waves (waves and particles are actually kinda equivalent anyway), not any kind of “information”.
Consequently, if two events occur in a way that a particle would have to travel faster than the speed of light to travel between them, then it’s impossible for one of those events to be caused by the other. They must be unrelated. So the soonest we will see any effect of the sun blipping out of existence, whatever the medium (light/gravity/??), is after 8 minutes.
What about quantum entanglement? Is that also limited to the speed of light?
Interestingly it’s not, but the thing is that you can’t actually use quantum entanglement to send information from one particle to the other, so it does not violate the principles of special relativity.
So usually this is explained with two scientists, Alice and Bob, on far away planets. They’re each in the possession of a particle that is entangled with the other, and in a superposition of state 1 and state 2. When Alice measures the state of her particle, it collapses into one of the states, say state 1. When Bob measures the state of his particle immediately after, before any particle travelling at light speed could get there, it will also be in state 1 (assuming they were entangled in such a way that the state will be the same).
Due to special relativity, for some observers it could actually have been Bob who measured the state of his particle first, before Alice did. In the end, it doesn’t really matter. They both got the same information: “state 1”, but since they can’t control what state the particle will collapse to, no information can be exchanged between Alice and Bob.
In quantum encryption, it is that bit of shared information that Alice and Bob can use as a key to encrypt and decrypt messages, but those messages are still sent the old fashioned way, using light waves traveling at light speed.
The gravity does not travel, the gravity is.
Changes in the gravitational field definitely travel, and do so at the speed of light.
Look up LIGO
If it didn’t travel, it wouldn’t take 8 minutes to stop right?
If the mass vanishes, then the gravity would also vanish, at the same time.
False. If the mass vanished via magic, the effect would ripple out at the speed of light. Source, gravity waves which move at the speed of light.
But vanishing is magic, it goes against the laws of physics, so you could apply any fictional logic
Of course. It can’t travel faster
Yes. General relativity.
After 8 minutes
The telephone: “Am I a joke to you?”
