If you respect China, you’re a piece of shit. Taiwan deserves independence, Hong Kong does too, so does Tibet, and so does East Turkestan.
This is helping me filter people. These are true beliefs I hold and if you give me the “MUH TIBET HAD SLAVERY” thing, good job you bought into propeganda.
I’m coming from a thread where people expressed fear to act and protest because they are killed in the act, get shot on their faces, literally. It’s in the graph.
That is a fascinating graph indeed. Ever wondered why official rape rates can be much higher in very progressive countries than in ultra-convservative countries where women have few rights, even if rape is illegal there? Hint: It is not because there are necessarily more rapes.
Not to argue against the data, but rather its disingenuous presentation: “democracy” is fundamentally interpreted differently by respondents in those regions, which the graph obscures.
Used as such, it’s propaganda. The truth (data with context) is much more interesting.
Did you want to talk about rape statistics instead? You’re free to make your own thread. Your argument doesn’t count because it’s not an argument, it’s a tangentially related statement at best.
Some times it takes an outsider to see the problems, and I’m not alone in seeing massive democratic problems in China. You don’t know who participated in that poll (and neither do I) was it random people on the street or pro party people? With the amount of surveillance in China, I probably would think twice before speaking against the party.
The communist party has the sole power in China, while other parties technically are legal they haven’t got any power higher than city/regional level.
And then there’s the corruption, they have massive problems with that.
And before you go “hurr durr other countries bad” yes other countries do have problems and some may be worse than China, but that doesn’t legitimise Chinas government.
They lifted 800 million people out of poverty in 40 years and 90% of Chinese adults own their own home. They haven’t dropped a bomb in 50 years. They produce more solar panels in a year than the rest of the world has combined so far.
I see what you’re getting at but you only need to glance at the US to know that a lot of citizens of a country do NOT know WTF they’re talking about when it comes to their leadership.
That may explain some of the positive results, but I think my original comment is a more plausible explanation as to why one single country would be such an outlier in your graph.
Think that 15% of people who didn’t say everyone has equal rights are the gay people who want equal rights or literally any protections against discrimination.
Your point is that China is exceptionally nationalistic? Based on a subjective study. Nice hard facts there. What’s really awesome is that the source is partnered with Taiwan Foundation for Democracy. An organization explicitly aiming to distance Taiwan from China and strengthen it as a independent democratic government.
You should know, the same report also puts Russia as one of the worst perceptions of democracy, I am talking the same level as some African countries riddled by warlords.
So based on this, would you say Russia is one of the worst democracies in the world (worse than even US) and that some North European countries and India are better democracies than China?
Because you have this really weird habit where you continually post material that you think will back your argument up. But you don’t actually read into it and then it turns out the material debases the point you were trying to make. I literally made a meme about it once.
This is such a weird question. Internet people should have to earn badges for the things they create before they talk like this. In order to be condescending you need at least one very impressive thing you’ve done that everyone in the thread knows about
When playing Nation State Am I the Arsehole? The answer is always “Everyone Sucks Here”.
It’s very, very strange to me that there are “socialists” out there who simp for China.
Comrade (those simps, not you), the working class don’t control society just by being considered by the ruling party, who you can’t recall, or vote out.
They have to actually have democratic control over society, which they most certainly do not in China, and there’s absolutely no plans to move toward that.
People there very much support the government when asked, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that support is justified when accounting for control over the media and suppression of dissent, and even industrial action smh. Similarly, Americans think they have democracy, which to be honest, they pretty much don’t, because there is no real democracy under capitalism where the wealthy will always have undue influence on the system, and especially not under their whacky-ass voting systems.
I dislike how people can’t grasp the concept that all ruling classes are bad, and just because one slaps “socialist” on their branding, doesn’t mean you need to support it…
These are true beliefs I hold and if you give me the “MUH TIBET HAD SLAVERY” thing, good job you bought into propeganda.
I mean, so did almost literally everyone else to some degree, unless they went extinct as hunter-gatherers. If that’s your disqualifier, you need to go live with the penguins in Antarctica.
The argument isn’t that Tibet once had slavery at some point in it’s history, but that Tibet had slavery up until the PRC ended it. There are no states in the modern day that practice slavery or serfdom in a comparable way (you could argue things like “wage slavery,” but that’s still significantly different from chattel slavery or serfdom). Slave states do not have the right to exist, and any nation without slaves has the right to invade a slave state and free the slaves. That’s not an unreasonable standard, it’s a standard that exists today.
I dunno. A lot of societies are getting away with severe bonded servitude on the premise it’s not as bad as the North-Atlantic slave trade.
Considering the US’ effort to keep slavery going with extra steps continuing to this day and getting worse, I’m eager to hold accountable every society that tries.
I’d be thrilled if the international community defined and enforced labor standards that aligned with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights — including the rights to food and a home — which would eliminate the business practice of offshoring production to exploit unprotected labor pools.
You are curiously fixated on China. I presume you reside there?
Point being, national sovereignty doesn’t outweigh wanton cruelty. It’s the same argument with the Confederacy, “States’ rights? States’ rights to what?” No state that employs that kind of system has the right to exist. The Union defeating the Confederacy and freeing the slaves, even if it wasn’t total liberation, was completely justified and made a marked improvement in countless people’s lives. Yes, there is still more to be done, but the world is a better place because slavery, as an institution, was ended by force.
any nation without slaves has the right to invade a slave state and free the slaves.
If you believe that’s objectively true then I suspect you need to ask yourself “why aren’t governments everywhere banding together to obliterate the actual slavery going on inside their borders?”
Those discord user account compromises and social media accounts asking for gift cards to avoid releasing your personal whatever aren’t legitimate businesses and the people performing those actions for them are not free to quit or even leave the buildimg they “work” in.
Okay, you could maybe argue that’s one-off tourist kidnapping by criminal parties at scale, but then we have blood diamonds. How is it they still exist?
Vegas hotels getting regular visits from cops as the drugs wear off early and the occasional girl escapes from the room she’s being held in, the fact that the superbowl is the world’s largest human trafficking conference, large portions of haiti under the current regime, slavery is EVERYWHERE and whoever is feeding you that line and placing the onus at a governmental policy level is trying to distract you from reality and hand-wave away anything that doesn’t line up with their own agenda.
The world banded rogether to eliminate CFC’s because of the ozone hole.
It’s clear we CAN all cooperate, so I posit you should be asking yourself: when reality doesn’t line up with the convenient point-proving “statements of fact” someone is pushing your direction, what does someone stand to gain from misrepresenting reality with quotable sound bytes?
(you could argue things like “wage slavery,” but that’s still significantly different from chattel slavery or serfdom)
Human trafficking is illegal everywhere. It still happens, but does so in the shadows. If a nation can just accuse another of not doing enough to combat human trafficking, that’s subjective by how much is “enough,” and the scope of it is hard to prove in an objective and indisputable way. Any nation could accuse any other nation and it would be a free pass whenever anyone wanted to go to war.
I’m talking about having an official stance of legalized chattel slavery or serfdom.
Tibet was still feudal at the time. Their liberation, arguably just forced modernization, involved losing regional, cultural, and socioeconomic self determination in an arrangement that very much resembles imperial or colonial exploitation and political suppression. Slavery of the entire polity to replace slavery of the poor, if you will.
Yeah, and growing up I heard the exact same talking points about the Confederacy. How states should have the right to decide whether they want to be in a union or not, how ending slavery was the real slavery, how it was authoritarian for a central body to tell us who we couldn’t enslave, how Southern culture was lost by the North imposing it’s ways on us. Just another nation-state trying to control the little guy. I’ve heard it all before.
If there is some rationale that can actually justify bemoaning the lost cause of the Tibetan slaver theocrats, it’s probably for the best that I’m not clever enough to see it, because I’d have used it to justify the beliefs I was raised with and might not have ever become a leftist in the first place.
It’s completely absurd to speak of “self-determination,” especially “socioeconomic self-determination” regarding a literal slave theocracy. What, you mean the “self determination” of the theocrats? Because the serfs didn’t have self-determination to lose in the first place. Again, there’s no shortage of people in the South who would bemoan the “carpetbaggers” and the loss of Southern “socioeconomic self-determination” (though they might use different terms), completely glossing over the fact that slaves had zero socioeconomic self-determination under their system.
You are the one who’s adopting a statist perspective by treating the serfs and their lords as one entity with unified interests, when if you look at if from a class perspective, they had diametrically opposed interests, with the interests of the serfs being in line with the interests of the Chinese people and the revolutionaries. Which is why so many of them supported them (in spite of the slaver theocrats’ attempts at religious indoctrination).
Of course, another reason is their shared history. Tibet had been part of China for hundreds of years, which is why it’s still claimed as part of China by the ROC. During the brief period of chaos following the collapse of the Qing, it emerged alongside countless other warlord states that were opposed by both the nationalists and communists, as well as anyone with half a brain who could see that the division is exactly what allowed them to be invaded by the Japanese despite them being a much smaller foe. In fact, during WWII, the US military produced a film that states that point explicitly.
China would have been wrong to have not freed the Tibetan serfs. Perhaps that liberation was imperfect or incomplete, just as the liberation of slaves in the US was, but it was still a step in the right direction that massively improved the quality of life for the vast majority of Tibetans.
Well there are so many points of historical and political-economy analysis that fundamentally differentiate the medieval feudalism of the himalayan plateau societies from the colonial chattel slaver system of the early USA that it is too much to address here.
But let’s not pretend that Tibet was liberated from a cruel economy and then given a path to self determination and control over immigration. It was annexed and is being settled like other settler-states. If the remnants of all former empires laid claim to their former conquests the world would burn.
Most nation-states have slavery-by-another-name running inside their prison systems, including China. Fuck that weak excuse. Geopolitics and centralized power did this, not that heroic myth that is just a variant of manifest destiny. Slavers liberating slaves, pfft.
But let’s not pretend that Tibet was liberated from a cruel economy and then given a path to self determination and control over immigration. If the remnants of all former empires laid claim to their former conquests the world would burn.
Do the former Confederate states have control over immigration, or is that handled at the federal level? Do those states have “a path to self-determination,” including a path towards secession, or towards reinstituting slavery? No, they are, quite correctly, bound by federal laws and follow the same rules as everyone else. Should we treat the Union reestablishing control over the Confederacy as, “an empire laying claim to its former conquests?” They had been a part of the Union for a much shorter time than Tibet had been part of China.
Most nation-states have slavery-by-another-name running inside their prison systems, including China… Slavers liberating slaves, pfft.
Yes, and the Union had prisons too. This doesn’t change the fact that ending the formal institution of slavery was a major, important step that materially improved the lives of the freed slaves. You’re dismissing all progress unless it instantly creates a perfect utopia overnight. This was a big one I heard, “The Northerners were hypocrites because their factories had harsh conditions.”
So far, I have yet to hear an argument that passes the, “Can this be used to justify the CSA” test, and as the CSA was unjustified those arguments must be wrong. You say that the systems were different, and yes, that’s true. The question is whether they were different in any relevant way. They were both cruel systems of involuntary servitude.
All of your arguments are just justifying cruel, inhumane, oppressive, authoritarian systems, and twisting words around to present it as “anti-authoritarian.” My upbringing has innoculated me against that sort of thing.
any nation without slaves has the right to invade a slave state and free the slaves.
This one doesn’t ring well. It is one thing if the oppressed people themselves asked for help, but otherwise its just an invasion. No nation has a ‘right’ to free slaves.
What population of slaves in history has not welcomed their liberators? What population of slaves in history has been permitted to petition someone to come free them?
Taiwan is independent by every definition of the word. Taiwan deserves to be recognized as independent, which it is whether governments decide to or not.
If you respect China, you’re a piece of shit. Taiwan deserves independence, Hong Kong does too, so does Tibet, and so does East Turkestan.
This is helping me filter people. These are true beliefs I hold and if you give me the “MUH TIBET HAD SLAVERY” thing, good job you bought into propeganda.
I eat ass.
Why does Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, and East Turkestan deserve independence? And what about Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Guam, etc.?
What about Hawaii and Puerto Rico?
You bought into the ass eating propaganda.
China as a country, a people and a culture deserve respect. The current power structure doesn’t.
This, it’s important never to misdirect hate on what countries inherently give back to the world
They literally can’t complain…
I’m coming from a thread where people expressed fear to act and protest because they are killed in the act, get shot on their faces, literally. It’s in the graph.
my favorite part of your statement is how hard it is to tell if you’re talking about tiananmen or tulsa.
I’m not a Tiananmen square massacre denier. I also believe in the Cuban genocide by American economic coercion.
Or Paris
Hmmm, something something statists and hierarchy simps.
Or what?
The social credit system
Lmao. The one that doesn’t exist?
it doesnt take much searching to find out it does…
if you want to lie, at least be competent about it
Wow, so confident. Hit me with a source, big guy!
Holy fuck! Chinese propaganda bots on Lemmy? Are you guys uninformed, or deliberately spreading misinformation?
Me: Critically supportive of china.
You: You must be a robot! No human being could possibly critically support America’s adversaries!
You see how that’s dehumanizing?
Which part was misinformation?
This guy still believes in the ganda
That is a fascinating graph indeed. Ever wondered why official rape rates can be much higher in very progressive countries than in ultra-convservative countries where women have few rights, even if rape is illegal there? Hint: It is not because there are necessarily more rapes.
Lmao
No arguments, I see.
I’m waiting for an argument against my data.
Did you think your comment was worthy of rebuttal, lmfao?
Not to argue against the data, but rather its disingenuous presentation: “democracy” is fundamentally interpreted differently by respondents in those regions, which the graph obscures.
Used as such, it’s propaganda. The truth (data with context) is much more interesting.
A more fair assessment than everything else I’ve heard here so far, lol.
So no argument, except for “your argument does not count because I say so”. Ok. .ml style.
Did you want to talk about rape statistics instead? You’re free to make your own thread. Your argument doesn’t count because it’s not an argument, it’s a tangentially related statement at best.
It certainly highlights a level of self-denial.
Over a billion people all just so in denial.
That’s what propaganda does. China isn’t a free democracy.
I’m sure you know better than the actual Chinese people polled. Thanks for setting the record straight.
and when North Koreans say the Kim gang are great, we should believe them.
I believe them more than the obvious bullshit propaganda coming from the country that literally genocided them, lmao.
You believe shit like every man in the country has to get the same haircut?
Some times it takes an outsider to see the problems, and I’m not alone in seeing massive democratic problems in China. You don’t know who participated in that poll (and neither do I) was it random people on the street or pro party people? With the amount of surveillance in China, I probably would think twice before speaking against the party.
The communist party has the sole power in China, while other parties technically are legal they haven’t got any power higher than city/regional level.
And then there’s the corruption, they have massive problems with that.
And before you go “hurr durr other countries bad” yes other countries do have problems and some may be worse than China, but that doesn’t legitimise Chinas government.
deleted by creator
They lifted 800 million people out of poverty in 40 years and 90% of Chinese adults own their own home. They haven’t dropped a bomb in 50 years. They produce more solar panels in a year than the rest of the world has combined so far.
Yeah. There’s a lot to like.
Also, more data from a “better” source.
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/resources/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time/
Tankie ideology treats China/USSR/North Korea the way that MAGA ideology treats trump.
I see what you’re getting at but you only need to glance at the US to know that a lot of citizens of a country do NOT know WTF they’re talking about when it comes to their leadership.
You think there might be a bit of an education gap between the two countries looool?
no see americans are exceptional. everyone else does it different
No country is perfect and that graph is highlighting who’s allowed to say that about their own country.
You think? You don’t think it has anything to do with the historically unprecedented rise in standard of living?
That may explain some of the positive results, but I think my original comment is a more plausible explanation as to why one single country would be such an outlier in your graph.
You think the Chinese thought police are able to keep over a billion people speaking positively about their country?
Think that 15% of people who didn’t say everyone has equal rights are the gay people who want equal rights or literally any protections against discrimination.
Do you?
What? Think gay people should have equal rights, yeah.
Same!
Highly doubtful
Really? What about my comment history leads you to believe I’m not all about human rights and equality?
Your point is that China is exceptionally nationalistic? Based on a subjective study. Nice hard facts there. What’s really awesome is that the source is partnered with Taiwan Foundation for Democracy. An organization explicitly aiming to distance Taiwan from China and strengthen it as a independent democratic government.
https://allianceofdemocracies.org/supporters
You like this one better?
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/resources/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time/
Info from 2003-2016 saying the population of China is extremely nationalistic… Again… what’s your point?
Keep thinking buddy, you’ll figure it out eventually.
What a good way to convey your point.
Honestly it speaks for itself and your shitty little comments don’t do much to refute that, definitely not enough for me to need to address them, lol.
Show me your proof for your other comment.
You should know, the same report also puts Russia as one of the worst perceptions of democracy, I am talking the same level as some African countries riddled by warlords.
Why would you think I didn’t already know that, lol?
So based on this, would you say Russia is one of the worst democracies in the world (worse than even US) and that some North European countries and India are better democracies than China?
The northern European countries with colonies in Africa? No, I wouldn’t say that.
I’m not even really sure what you mean when you say better or worse democracy to be honest.
Because you have this really weird habit where you continually post material that you think will back your argument up. But you don’t actually read into it and then it turns out the material debases the point you were trying to make. I literally made a meme about it once.
I’m sure your mom was really proud of it and it’s still on her fridge to this day 👍.
Not really sure you put this comment in the right place? Or if it’s really for me?
This is such a weird question. Internet people should have to earn badges for the things they create before they talk like this. In order to be condescending you need at least one very impressive thing you’ve done that everyone in the thread knows about
My democracy is better than your democracy 😠
Clearly a gentle person and a scholar. A glass of wine with you!
(Though we each get our own glass. I don’t want sex diarrhea.)
Dibs on the band name!
No nation state should be respected.
When playing Nation State Am I the Arsehole? The answer is always “Everyone Sucks Here”.
It’s very, very strange to me that there are “socialists” out there who simp for China.
Comrade (those simps, not you), the working class don’t control society just by being considered by the ruling party, who you can’t recall, or vote out.
They have to actually have democratic control over society, which they most certainly do not in China, and there’s absolutely no plans to move toward that.
People there very much support the government when asked, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that support is justified when accounting for control over the media and suppression of dissent, and even industrial action smh. Similarly, Americans think they have democracy, which to be honest, they pretty much don’t, because there is no real democracy under capitalism where the wealthy will always have undue influence on the system, and especially not under their whacky-ass voting systems.
I dislike how people can’t grasp the concept that all ruling classes are bad, and just because one slaps “socialist” on their branding, doesn’t mean you need to support it…
I mean, so did almost literally everyone else to some degree, unless they went extinct as hunter-gatherers. If that’s your disqualifier, you need to go live with the penguins in Antarctica.
You think almost every currently existing country practiced slavery in its past???
The argument isn’t that Tibet once had slavery at some point in it’s history, but that Tibet had slavery up until the PRC ended it. There are no states in the modern day that practice slavery or serfdom in a comparable way (you could argue things like “wage slavery,” but that’s still significantly different from chattel slavery or serfdom). Slave states do not have the right to exist, and any nation without slaves has the right to invade a slave state and free the slaves. That’s not an unreasonable standard, it’s a standard that exists today.
I dunno. A lot of societies are getting away with severe bonded servitude on the premise it’s not as bad as the North-Atlantic slave trade.
Considering the US’ effort to keep slavery going with extra steps continuing to this day and getting worse, I’m eager to hold accountable every society that tries.
I’d be okay with China freeing the slaves in America.
I’d be thrilled if the international community defined and enforced labor standards that aligned with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights — including the rights to food and a home — which would eliminate the business practice of offshoring production to exploit unprotected labor pools.
You are curiously fixated on China. I presume you reside there?
Point being, national sovereignty doesn’t outweigh wanton cruelty. It’s the same argument with the Confederacy, “States’ rights? States’ rights to what?” No state that employs that kind of system has the right to exist. The Union defeating the Confederacy and freeing the slaves, even if it wasn’t total liberation, was completely justified and made a marked improvement in countless people’s lives. Yes, there is still more to be done, but the world is a better place because slavery, as an institution, was ended by force.
If you believe that’s objectively true then I suspect you need to ask yourself “why aren’t governments everywhere banding together to obliterate the actual slavery going on inside their borders?”
Those discord user account compromises and social media accounts asking for gift cards to avoid releasing your personal whatever aren’t legitimate businesses and the people performing those actions for them are not free to quit or even leave the buildimg they “work” in.
Okay, you could maybe argue that’s one-off tourist kidnapping by criminal parties at scale, but then we have blood diamonds. How is it they still exist?
Vegas hotels getting regular visits from cops as the drugs wear off early and the occasional girl escapes from the room she’s being held in, the fact that the superbowl is the world’s largest human trafficking conference, large portions of haiti under the current regime, slavery is EVERYWHERE and whoever is feeding you that line and placing the onus at a governmental policy level is trying to distract you from reality and hand-wave away anything that doesn’t line up with their own agenda.
The world banded rogether to eliminate CFC’s because of the ozone hole.
It’s clear we CAN all cooperate, so I posit you should be asking yourself: when reality doesn’t line up with the convenient point-proving “statements of fact” someone is pushing your direction, what does someone stand to gain from misrepresenting reality with quotable sound bytes?
Human trafficking is illegal everywhere. It still happens, but does so in the shadows. If a nation can just accuse another of not doing enough to combat human trafficking, that’s subjective by how much is “enough,” and the scope of it is hard to prove in an objective and indisputable way. Any nation could accuse any other nation and it would be a free pass whenever anyone wanted to go to war.
I’m talking about having an official stance of legalized chattel slavery or serfdom.
Tibet was still feudal at the time. Their liberation, arguably just forced modernization, involved losing regional, cultural, and socioeconomic self determination in an arrangement that very much resembles imperial or colonial exploitation and political suppression. Slavery of the entire polity to replace slavery of the poor, if you will.
Just another nation-state doing what statists do.
Yeah, and growing up I heard the exact same talking points about the Confederacy. How states should have the right to decide whether they want to be in a union or not, how ending slavery was the real slavery, how it was authoritarian for a central body to tell us who we couldn’t enslave, how Southern culture was lost by the North imposing it’s ways on us. Just another nation-state trying to control the little guy. I’ve heard it all before.
If there is some rationale that can actually justify bemoaning the lost cause of the Tibetan slaver theocrats, it’s probably for the best that I’m not clever enough to see it, because I’d have used it to justify the beliefs I was raised with and might not have ever become a leftist in the first place.
It’s completely absurd to speak of “self-determination,” especially “socioeconomic self-determination” regarding a literal slave theocracy. What, you mean the “self determination” of the theocrats? Because the serfs didn’t have self-determination to lose in the first place. Again, there’s no shortage of people in the South who would bemoan the “carpetbaggers” and the loss of Southern “socioeconomic self-determination” (though they might use different terms), completely glossing over the fact that slaves had zero socioeconomic self-determination under their system.
You are the one who’s adopting a statist perspective by treating the serfs and their lords as one entity with unified interests, when if you look at if from a class perspective, they had diametrically opposed interests, with the interests of the serfs being in line with the interests of the Chinese people and the revolutionaries. Which is why so many of them supported them (in spite of the slaver theocrats’ attempts at religious indoctrination).
Of course, another reason is their shared history. Tibet had been part of China for hundreds of years, which is why it’s still claimed as part of China by the ROC. During the brief period of chaos following the collapse of the Qing, it emerged alongside countless other warlord states that were opposed by both the nationalists and communists, as well as anyone with half a brain who could see that the division is exactly what allowed them to be invaded by the Japanese despite them being a much smaller foe. In fact, during WWII, the US military produced a film that states that point explicitly.
China would have been wrong to have not freed the Tibetan serfs. Perhaps that liberation was imperfect or incomplete, just as the liberation of slaves in the US was, but it was still a step in the right direction that massively improved the quality of life for the vast majority of Tibetans.
Well there are so many points of historical and political-economy analysis that fundamentally differentiate the medieval feudalism of the himalayan plateau societies from the colonial chattel slaver system of the early USA that it is too much to address here.
But let’s not pretend that Tibet was liberated from a cruel economy and then given a path to self determination and control over immigration. It was annexed and is being settled like other settler-states. If the remnants of all former empires laid claim to their former conquests the world would burn.
Most nation-states have slavery-by-another-name running inside their prison systems, including China. Fuck that weak excuse. Geopolitics and centralized power did this, not that heroic myth that is just a variant of manifest destiny. Slavers liberating slaves, pfft.
Truly Tibetan slaves and American slaves are apples and oranges, I say it all the time, lol.
Do the former Confederate states have control over immigration, or is that handled at the federal level? Do those states have “a path to self-determination,” including a path towards secession, or towards reinstituting slavery? No, they are, quite correctly, bound by federal laws and follow the same rules as everyone else. Should we treat the Union reestablishing control over the Confederacy as, “an empire laying claim to its former conquests?” They had been a part of the Union for a much shorter time than Tibet had been part of China.
Yes, and the Union had prisons too. This doesn’t change the fact that ending the formal institution of slavery was a major, important step that materially improved the lives of the freed slaves. You’re dismissing all progress unless it instantly creates a perfect utopia overnight. This was a big one I heard, “The Northerners were hypocrites because their factories had harsh conditions.”
So far, I have yet to hear an argument that passes the, “Can this be used to justify the CSA” test, and as the CSA was unjustified those arguments must be wrong. You say that the systems were different, and yes, that’s true. The question is whether they were different in any relevant way. They were both cruel systems of involuntary servitude.
All of your arguments are just justifying cruel, inhumane, oppressive, authoritarian systems, and twisting words around to present it as “anti-authoritarian.” My upbringing has innoculated me against that sort of thing.
This one doesn’t ring well. It is one thing if the oppressed people themselves asked for help, but otherwise its just an invasion. No nation has a ‘right’ to free slaves.
Wtf, lol?
The PRC had considerable help from Tibetan serfs. I know that was true. The communists didn’t just all come from China.
What population of slaves in history has not welcomed their liberators? What population of slaves in history has been permitted to petition someone to come free them?
“We better not liberate this concentration camp, they didn’t invite us”
Taiwan is independent by every definition of the word. Taiwan deserves to be recognized as independent, which it is whether governments decide to or not.
Taiwan claims ownership over all of mainland China. How is that independent?
Source? AFAIK that’s a common misconception.
Also, I guess you also consider PRC to not be independent since they claim Taiwan is their territory?
Wat