Anything change on the last bit? before it was dial up and mom kept complaining about its cost.

New Update posted on January 22, 2025 FINAL UPDATE: How do I (42M) build back my relationship with my daughters (13-19F)?

I have been away for several years. Most of you have heard my story I won’t bore you with any of the details. I deleted my old account because I was too embarrassed to ever come back to it.

I took the advice I was given. I left my daughters alone and have not heard from them since, which is understandable. I did finally get myself in therapy and realised what a gross piece of shit I was to the 5 most important people in the world to me at the time. In the end, I came to the conclusion that I needed to accept the fact that they were simply gone. Seven months after their final contact, I wrote my ex wife an email saying that I did not want any further updates on their lives and that I would never contact any of them again. She agreed and stopped sending me emails shortly afterwards.

It was painful for a long while, and I thought I’d just punish myself forever. I agree with the general conclusion of the commenters that I was/am a narcissist, and in retrospect I probably had no business being a father. I began to read books more often in an effort to gain perspective, inbetween taking care of my son and doing the best I could to make sure I appreciated how horrible I was and probably still am.

Five months ago one of the regulars at my place of business took an interest in me and asked me for my number. I was pretty wary for obvious reasons but I agreed. Knowing how prone I am to being an utter cunt to everyone I care about, I was pretty upfront with her that I had cheated on my ex wife and had no contact with my former family. I figured that would kill her interest, but surprisingly not. She did end up interrogating me pretty harshly over it, which I let her do because I definitely needed to be dressed down over it by someone besides my therapist.

So now she and her 7 year old daughter (she was widowed three years ago) are with me in their house with my son and we seem to be tentatively forming a new family. I am very paranoid about something going wrong, so whenever I’m not working I always go straight to their place or mine and ask her to come over. I like to think I have learned my lesson, but many said on here said to me cheaters usually relapse. I have had zero desire to do so, but can a person truly change like that? I hope so. I will not cheat on her, I know it. But my past haunts me when I think about it.

If my son ever asks me how things came to be I’ll tell him the truth when he’s old enough to understand: we may not be a family by blood, but the four of us ARE a family. And I will always be there for both of my kids.

One thing that bothers me is how detached I feel from my previous family. I can honestly say I don’t love any of my former daughters anymore and they obviously don’t love me. And that’s…fine. I feel completely at peace with it. My son, his new sibling, and his new mother are my second chance, and I have embraced it. But what does that say about me? I spent 16 years with them and in less than three I have been able to completely emotionally detach from them. I have made it a point not to use social media so they can’t see my new life, and my girlfriend shares my disdain for it. But aside from that our existences do not affect one another anymore: they have a new father and role model, and I have a new family. It is done.

That is all I have to say, reddit. Now feel free to tell me to fuck off, since I deserve it.

Update 2 posted on January 26, 2022

UPDATE: How can I (42M) build my relationship back up with my kids (minor teens, Fx4) after an affair?

Good news: my girlfriend and I have broken up. She has gone back to her home country and left my son with me. Refused to sign any formal custody agreement so I’m hoping she stays there and doesn’t bother us again. I’m pretty sure if she comes back and demands time with him I have a good case for maintaining custody. She’s not even interested in face timing with him so he remembers her. I feel bad that my son will deal with a shitty/absent mother but I hope I can get him into therapy as he grows.

Bad news: I’ve tried my best to insist on visitation with my daughters and that has fallen through. They absolutely refused to see me. They wrote me a letter together that says how much they hate me, how betrayed they feel, how they’ll never forgive me and how my son will never be their brother. To not even bother telling him about them because they’ll never be interested in knowing him. Just to forget about them altogether and move on with my “new family”. I have no legal recourse. The youngest is 13 now, old enough to have a say in custody arrangements. And I don’t think forcing them to see me would do me any favours long term anyways.

They also included pictures of their mother’s wedding. My ex has no obligation to tell me about her personal life but I’m pretty pissed that there is a man living with my daughters that I didn’t know about. It is a family friend that has been in their lives 10+ years so not a total stranger but still hurt to see pictures of their recent wedding and family pictures with my daughters. They mentioned that they have a father figure and don’t need me anyways.

The whole thing really hurt. I know I have no right to feel hurt that my ex has moved on when I cheated on her. But their whole relationship has moved very fast so I’m now wondering if they started it before we got divorced. No way to know now. Doesn’t matter anyways.

My ex agreed to keep me up to date and send pictures of my daughters once in a while. After dealing with my son’s mom, I’m grateful she is so good to our girls and I don’t have to worry about their well-being. I’m trying to focus on being a good dad to my son and patiently waiting for my girls to grow up and reach out. It may never happen but I’m hopeful that they will understand me more as they become adults and gain context for life.

Comment made by OOP:

Commenter (downvoted): OP, I’m taking a different stance. Although the children are aware of your cheating, ultimately that is between you and your ex wife, it’s none of the business of the kids. 100% on the wife for poisoning your memory in the eyes of the kids. A good woman would have said to the kids “yes he is with another woman, but he’s still your father and always will be, and he was always good to you, and I expect you guys to have a relationship with him.”

OOP: My ex-wife didn’t have to tell them anything. My then girlfriend got pregnant while we were still married. My kids were teenagers and smart/educated enough about sex and relationships to put two and two together. It was obvious I cheated. I decided honesty was best and explained the whole situation. My ex was supportive of them having a relationship with me but did not force them (I didn’t want to force them either).

Commenter 3: My fiancé and I have only ever been together and we check in all of the time to talk about curiosity. We’ve decided if we ever choose to explore, we’re going to a sex worker because there won’t be feelings involved and it’ll be just sex. Did you ever have honest conversations like that with your ex? Why didn’t you talk it out before having an affair? Did you just plan on not getting caught? EDIT - I just read your previous post and holy wow. You are a fool and you have a lot of life left to live with the guilt of all your failures. You want to keep your relationship with your AP you “have something to show for” blowing up your life but what you should’ve done is breakup with her and coparent. If my dad did what you did, I’d just see you as a creepy, pathetic loser and I’d never want anything to do with you again for hurting my mom. You forfeited every Christmas, birthday, graduation, wedding, grandchild, so you could fuck someone almost my age? Barf.

OOP: I brought this up before and we did have honest conversations about it. We’d been together since middle school and had been each others first and only. She LOVED that. She had no curiosity about other people and thought it was special that we’d only had sex with each other. And she is a very monogamous person in general, couldn’t even handle the thought of me being with someone else. If I wanted to be with someone else, it would have to be as a single man. I didn’t seek an affair. My gf pursued me strongly and it just happened. She got pregnant quite early into it. I didn’t really plan on anything.

Commenter 4: You chose your affair over your family. These are the consequences of your actions. You will never again have the same relationship with them. One weekend a month is nothing. Is there a reason you didn’t fight for custody? It would have shown you actually cared. You’re right about one thing. You can’t change the past. Unfortunately it informs the present and the future.

OOP: I did fight for custody but they were all old enough that the court considered their preference and the situation and only granted me visitation. A part of that was also because I didn’t have the means to get a place large enough for all four girls, my son, my girlfriend and myself. I still don’t have room for them in my current apartment and being a mostly SAHD did not give me the experience/education to get a good enough job to support them here. If I had the choice, I would’ve chosen my ex and family over my affair partner.

Finally, I have consulted a couple of professional plumbers and have been told a clog of that magnitude did not happen from one cleaning. The inspection was done two weeks before closing and the clog occurred 3 weeks after new homeowners moved in. That’s a 5 week period, two different families in the home, various workers, including carpet cleaning crew, and who knows who the new homeowners have had in the home, along with their small children so I find it hard to believe the damage occurred in the 10 hours I spent in the home. I have so many questions but I guess the main one is, how can I help you with this situation? What are you expectations of me? Please feel free to let ne know what it is I can do for you. “

She still has not responded back and I sent this two days ago. I live in Louisiana and school has been closed all week due to snow storm so I haven’t returned to work yet but am anxious about seeing her when we do return. Hoping she responds and settles this before I run into her at work. Thanks again for helping ne with this situation

Some of OOP’s Comments:

Commenter: My best guess is she never brings it up again and things will be normal back at work.

If they don’t bring it up then just let go and know you handled it professionally.

OOP: Thank you for your comment. It never occurred to me she might just drop it altogether but the more I think about it the more I think you’re right.

Commenter: Wow you did great! Perfect response to her. She hopefully feels a bit embarrassed for putting this on you. She will probably never bring this up again. Please keep in the back of your mind how quick she was to blame you.

OOP: Yes it’s disappointing to know how quick she’s willing to throw me under the bus and our relationship will never be the same because I will never forget the betrayal and shock I felt.

Commenter: I read your last post and was very interested to read your update. Your letter was perfect! You addressed the items flushed very clearly and were very respectful. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I’m wondering if the items causing the backup were from before you cleaned the house. Previous cleaning company?

OOP: I had a plumber tell me it’s probably years of accumulation and there’s no way a one time clean by me and/or the new owners cleaning person could have caused this

We ended up talking a lot longer than I realized and my roommates came back around 7 and asked if we wanted to get some dinner. I asked Mike if he wanted to stay and keep talking and he said yes. We ordered some pizza and the 6 of us (us plus my 3 roommates and 1 bf) sat in our living room to eat. I could tell this was probably Mikes worst case scenario of being in a group of friends but not really knowing anyone other than me. His body language showed he was uncomfortable and guarded (body tense, head down, shoulders hunched forward) but my friend Nikki made sure to keep him engaged in the convo and after 10-15 min Mike visibly relaxed. He sat back and looked relaxed and was much more forthcoming. I was so happy for him and thought that maybe he is just someone who needs a little more time to really become comfortable enough before opening up and talking freely with new people.

He ended up crashing on our couch that night. Sunday morning he took me to breakfast to talk some more before he dropped me off at work. We had a loooooong hug and he thanked me for recognizing that he needed help and that reading the comments and talking about how he felt and coming up with some ideas and plans made him feel better than he had in a long time. I told him that I love him and I am there for him always and reminded him that we are a team in this. After work I called aunt K and we talked about everything. She was happy that I was able to get him to open up and understood that it was probably hard for him to ask for help. She is also going to keep nudging him to be more open and to put himself out there more.

So this is where we are now. He has some “homework” to do in finding some new things to try out and just get out and meet people. I also told him that he has to have at least 2 dating accounts opened before we meet up again and I would help him set up a good profile =) I am glad that he doesn’t really have many regrets about what we did (I know I don’t) and is really focused on moving forward. I know this will be a long and probably sometimes painful process for him but I told him I would be there for him every step of the way. I have also reached out to some of his friends on SM to see if they are willing to talk with me about him. I also want to talk with their SOs, since they know him and I would like a female friend perspective rather than just a sister perspective.

Oh, and to the commenter/DM who said I should have sex with him to help him, ummmm not sure what to say other than he’s not my type? We arent THAT close? Smh Idk…

I guess this counts as my 1 update for this. If anything else happens I can either put it in the comments or my personal page if the post is locked. I would like to sincerely thank everyone who responded for the kind words, love, advice, ideas and insight into things we hadn’t realized or considered. It really meant a lot to both of us. Much love for the hive mind!

Tl:dr: we talked a lot, it was very emotional for us both and have a least an idea of how to move forward

Edit to the Update

I wanted to respond to a few comments that were made before the post was locked/removed:

1: I am definitely going to talk to the financial aid office about my situation and see if I can be considered an independent student for aid purposes. Thanks for the info on that, I did not know this was a thing.

2: I know he has everyone on blocked except for our mom and sister. I know it hurts him that our nieces are likely going to grow up in that environment.

3: The uber-controlling part of my father didnt really come out until our grandparents (moms parents) permanently moved to AZ. I think since we were all living in their house, it was grandpa that was the “man of the house”. Mike was already in college when that happened so he didnt get the full extent of it. This also coincided with my sister “discovering” boys in 8th grade so it could be a combination of both. My male cousins (15 and 16) are already going down the path of my uncles in how they treat their older sisters and it makes me sad that thought process is continuing.

4: He was always a great brother to both my sister and me. He doted on us when we were younger and made time to be with us. When he got a job and then when he came home to visit from college/work, he would take us both out individually for ice cream or something just to talk. This is something mom also did for all 3 of us. Even when we didnt have a lot of money, she took us out once a week to talk about whatever, even if we were just getting $1 McD’s drinks and fries to share.

5: I think the dinner/hang out with my friends was the first time I had seen him interact in a casual social way with people he did not know. It really helped me to see how he first acted, stoic and robotic, and then saw him slowly ease into the conversation after a while. My friends made a point to keep him involved. The bf, Rob, even got to talk a little about school stuff since Rob goes to the college that Mike did (they both went to my schools biggest “rival”). It was like as soon as he was able to relax and feel like a part of the room he changed and was able to engage naturally.

6: He agrees he needs to treat his mental, emotional and social health with the same priority and focus that he uses to help those he cares about and work on building new relationships. It will likely be a long and sometimes painful process for him but he knows he has support.

7: He is working on setting up an appt with a therapist through his employers EAP to help him work through some of the issues I brought up in the update. I promised him I wouldnt judge him, but some of the things he said really scared me and broke my heart that he kept so much pain inside.

8: I hadnt seen the family texts he showed me before. They are all from when we first left he just never deleted them. I think everyone is right that my mom is suffering from emotional abuse =( I am worried for her, my sister and nieces in that regard.

9: I plan on, and have already started, doing more facetime/phone calls with him instead of just texts to try and make a more personal connection with him.

I seem to be the only person that hated the 90s. Ugh. Now at least I got fast internet and hentai is not just sailor moon x dbz.

Update Post: January 14, 2025 (17 days from OG post)

To all of you who commented before, thanks. This is the update and I know I’m setting myself up to get knocked about, but this is Reddit after all.

I saw the divorce decree from his prior wife, so he is indeed divorced and he and I are legally married. Since that post, I have told him he needs to engage in the cleaning and taking care of things around the house. He Is now responsible for one bathroom and I’m responsible for the other. He actually pointed out a “cleaning method” to me and I said, “great, do whatever you like.” He has been frustrated by the new order around here and continues to do as little as possible. I have tried to remain cheerful and positive. His daughter called to confirm we are coming. He said “of course” and later asked me “we are going, right?” I said when you get your passport I will make the reservations. He looked dumbstruck. I told him the application has been sitting (right where I told him) and he denied ever hearing me say that. He started working on the application, then asked me if He had a birth certificate. I told him “I assume so, because you were born.” He asked where it was and I told him I have no idea, figure it out. He was getting frustrated. I went and fetched it from the files, and angrily told him here it is and you can take care of this from now on. Yes, I spoke angrily. Yes I slammed it down on the table. He flipped out and threw a plastic bottle of salad dressing into the kitchen and it broke and splattered all over the cabinets. Like the mature adults we are, the rest of the day was spent in silence. I went into my office, and he was again glued to the damn political news on the tv, just like he has been for years. He eventually cleaned up the mess in the kitchen. I refuse to cook for him, will not do any of his laundry. I had just changed the sheets on the bed and I bet they are there this time next year. I have taken up residence in the extra bedroom and my office, which are on one side of the house. I’m not sure what will come of this, but I wish the divorce from his prior wife had never been finalized. I would now be free. Financially, we are kind of stuck together but I will work toward getting unstuck. Some of OOP’s Comments:

Commenter: UpdateMe about if he gets it together in time to get his passport. I think someone mentioned in your previous post something about maybe telling the bride that he hasn’t gotten his passport. If you’re on decent terms with her, you might want to mention it to her anyway. If you don’t tell her now and he doesn’t get to go, he’s going to tell her that you never told him, just like he denied you saying you’d told him before. If nothing else, her getting on him might jumpstart him more than anything you do. (Other than that though, I wouldn’t do anything.)

Good luck! Enjoy your trip with or without him.

OOP: The bride has been informed of the situation, because his daughter texted me later and I filled her in about the actual obstacle. She and I are on great terms (love her) and I told her no matter what happens, I will get the bride a beautiful gift. [editor’s note: to prevent confusion, remember it is the grand-daughter getting married, not the daughter. OOP is close to the daughter, who is the bride’s mom]

Commenter: By the sound of it he never learned to do shit at home…

Ask him if he wants to learn before he is on his own. It might not safe your marriage. But you would safe a live even if it’s the next woman after you.

OOP: Ha ha! He’s beyond saving, and if some lady wants to pick him up later, she’s on her own. I raised my child to be responsible and to be a partner in marriage (it worked).

Commenter: Seems you married a man child. I hope he decides to grow up, but the chances are slim.

OOP: I did. Not sure what the future holds. Thankfully I have learned not to let it distress me too terribly. I have my friends and my work (source of good income).

Commenter; Nothing sexier than a man who throws a salad dressing bottle when asked to complete a grown up task

OOP: Yeaahhh. To his credit, he wasn’t aiming at me. I admit I have thrown things in anger and frustration before. At least it was the Ranch dressing, which I don’t eat anyway.

Commenter: Congrats on your being very organized and thorough with this unfortunate debacle. […] am I correct in classifying MAGA rage to him?

OOP: He’s on the other side. He’s been massively depressed since the election LOL. I don’t give two shits about politics, other than to vote.

Commenter: […] Also, instead of getting things like his birth certificate for him, if he doesn’t know, by now, that important documents are stored in a file cabinet, either he’s actually truly stupid or you married someone with disability. And the way to find out is to ask him! So, after living with me for 20 years, is it because you’re mentally deficient that you don’t know where important documents are, or are you just stupid?

I mean, you’re not gonna solve any problems that way, but it sure as hell is gonna feel good and get the point across.

OOP: Oh, mentally I say a lot of stuff that would only serve to escalate the problem. Years ago, I moved a small 2 drawer filing cabinet into our walk-in closet and told him that one is his, and his birth certificate is in there. IT’S THE ONLY THING IN THERE. You literally open the drawer and there is one Manila folder with his birth certificate. he does have ADHD and prefers not to do anything that requires organization and attention to detail, but that doesn’t mean he can’t! He can, but I have filled that gap for him so long he has become accustomed to it. Well, that has all changed and he is not handling it well.

Commenter: You, have so much resentment. You need some counseling to work your way through this and maybe need to try couple’s counseling. Sadly, you’ve enabled him for years, and he didn’t know you resented him for it. This isn’t to blame you, but to point out a lack of communication.

OOP: confess this is true. Honestly I didn’t realize how much until I almost slammed that birth certificate on the table. I need to work on changing the situation and letting go of resentment. Holding on to that does no good.

OOP explains:

Well my prior post was pretty much the start of my “wake up call” when I wondered “why am I jumping through hoops doing all the work for his passport, when he’s sitting over there cackling at the tv??” I already have a passport. He’s a grown man, and even though I’m better at paperwork he’s still fully capable of doing this. As usual, weddings just fan the flames of the usual relationship issues.

Religion. As a child, I was told I was born hated by God nightly on the “Christian” radio and had to make for it. Yeah f that God and followers, my Boi Jesus is the best.

My partner hates seeing this. Looks like a block on the road and makes you question if you are hallucinating.

Plenty of * on which agencies

WaitUntilIDie: You’d make the right call to cut your loses, see this as a learning opportunity for what is not only intolerable but most likely illegal. I can’t think of any state where you can be expected to continue working without pay. Id go as far as to suggest reporting the hours you were unpaid to the labor board in your state if you are from the states.

You are being taken advantage of here, but you know that. Do what’s best for you. I’m not only suggesting making the report so you get paid, but also to put this business on notice because you probably aren’t the only person they will try to exploit this way especially after you’ve left and having that record is important to show a pattern of behavior on the business owners part.

ERVetSurgeon: Report him to the Dept of Labor at the federal level. You cannot force someone to stay on the job “off the clock.” If they did that, you will get back pay.

Hellokitty55: I’m so sorry this is happening to you. You’re NTA. You tried to level with your boss and get him to understand. I’m guessing he doesn’t want any backlash bc of business. I wish there weren’t people out there that takes advantage of kindness.

Last Update: May 13, 2024 (12 days later)

Previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/7naOmsQ5tU

I got other instructors to get on my boss’s case with me. I also informed him I have to quit the kids class and I will quit the training I do with adults too / leave the gym and our friendship if he doesn’t hear me out respectfully.

The reason I wanted to avoid reporting my boss is because I have a relationship with him and nearly everyone at this gym going back almost 10 years. I didn’t want to resort to making a report without exploring every other option first.

My boss caved. I’ll get paid for the extra hours I logged on the next paycheck.

Moving forward, I will no longer teach the kids, because although we have a policy and late pickup fee in place, as it stands right now, instructors are still responsible to stay back until the last kid leaves and my boss doesn’t want to negotiate on that. I can’t stay behind after classes. I have other obligations the same day as the class I teach. It’s unfortunate because this one parent is the only one currently abusing the system because she can afford to.

That kid’s mom was late this week again by 30 minutes. Showed her my timer. I also told her I’ve quit. She asked me if the late warnings “reset” when a new instructor takes over (they don’t). She then tried to hire me out from under my boss as her kid’s private instructor. I said no, but I might reconsider if she ever wants lessons. I would love to give that woman hell.

Alright, that’s the end of that. I feel bad I couldn’t stick it out with this kids program but it’s too disorganized for me right now.

Relevant Comment

RaptorOO7: Sounds like she has zero respect for anyone else’s time, sure who doesn’t love money, but my time is money and I value my time a lot more than her money.

Good call not working for her who knows what kind of hell she would put you through.

People with money know that money talks and most will take it. When you don’t out of principle they just can’t understand it.

OOP: People like her ruin it for other parents and my boss refuses to implement a condition like … X amount of lates will result in your kid being dropped from the class.

Update 2 Nov 28, 2024

Holy freakin’ shit… my brother might be in debt…

I’m at work right now, so sorry for any grammar mistakes. I’m literally typing this on my phone while heading back to my desk. But yeah…

So yeah, Dax finally came clean to my mom about why he’s been pushing the whole secret Santa thing last year and this white elephant deal this year. Turns out, he’s drowning in debt.

Apparently, Dax and his wife Megan have been spending like they’re loaded—fancy vacations, high-end crap, you name it. They’ve almost maxed out their credit cards trying to live like they’re in a Real Housewives episode. Now they’re up to their eyeballs in debt.

Dax admitted to my mom that he’s dealing with some heavy PTSD and said he’s going to start therapy because he’s lost and doesn’t know what to do. My mom told him straight up: he’s gotta quit blowing money like this and walk away from this stupid deal on the new house they’re trying to buy.

But Dax being Dax…he’s not listening. He’s terrified his friends and co-workers are gonna judge him if he doesn’t keep up this whole “rich guy” act. Like, dude, nobody cares as much as you think they do. Egos are wild, huh?

Look, I feel bad for my brother, I really do. But at the same time, how do you spend money like it’s Monopoly cash and not think it’s gonna catch up to you? Still, I wish I could help him. I can’t help financially—I don’t make much—but I can at least help him and Megan with the kids so they can maybe figure this mess out.

As for Christmas, I tried to be petty. I thought about only buying gifts for the family members not doing this white elephant nonsense, plus my nieces and nephews. But my guilt kicked in, so I ended up getting something for Dax, Megan, Leaf, and Blaire too. I know they’re probably not gonna get me anything, but whatever. Christmas isn’t about presents anyway.

I just hope Dax wakes up from this and learns to stop spending money he doesn’t have. But I can’t say that to him, you know? Younger brother and all that.

Anyway, holy shit. If there’s another update, I’ll post. Hope you guys have a good holiday.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Con4America

YTA No gifts for anyone would have been better. You are just enabling the tow of them.

OOP

You can see it that way, but like I said, I don’t care if I get gifts or not. I just like giving personal gifts. I love buying things for people because gift-giving is my love language. The whole point of my original post was that I was upset my brother was taking away my choice to buy gifts for people and trying to dictate what everyone else does. I didn’t want to do a white elephant exchange because I don’t like buying generic gifts. I want to get each person something I know they’ll like—not something that’ll just sit on a shelf collecting dust or get re-gifted to someone else. Like I said, I love buying gifts for people. I’m not in it for what I get in return.

P.S I’m going to do everything I can to help my brother and his family. I’m planning to pick up an extra job or two so I can make some more money and help him out with his debt.

This is what I’ve always done—I help my family and friends get out of their debt messes because my two main love languages are gift-giving and acts of service. Of course, I don’t want my brother to suffer, but I do hope he sees this as a learning experience and appreciates what he has…

Chaoticgood790

So not only are you enabling them but you’re getting a job to help them from their own mess.

I hope you’re a troll bc you are an idiot if not

OOP

Look, it’s a complicated situation. I’ve always been the kind of person who wants to take on everyone’s problems, figure out what’s bothering them, and fix it. I’m a fixer, that’s just how I am. I worry about Dax. We don’t have the best relationship, and we didn’t really talk much after he moved out seven years ago. But whenever he’s had trouble, I’ve done what I could to help.

I’m worried he might start drinking again because of the stress and depression. He’s been sober for two years now, and I’m really proud of him for that. But I don’t know what to do. Part of me thinks I should step back and let him handle this himself since he’s the one who got himself into this mess. But another part of me just wants to fix it all, figure it out, and make everything okay. Honestly, I feel like crying because I feel so bad for my brother. I don’t want to enable him, but I also don’t want him to suffer. Nothing about this is black and white—it’s all shades of gray.

Update 2 Jan 15, 2025

I just want to say this in advance: I don’t know if my dad was telling the full truth! I do believe him, but he might have exaggerated or left things out. It’s entirely possible that he lied to a certain extent - I personally don’t think that, but then again, most of the things he told me yesterday, I’ve heard about for the first time and they make him seem incredibly innocent. Maybe he was lying? I don’t know. This whole situation just makes me question who I can trust in general.

So, we had dinner with my dad last night and it went pretty well overall. We mainly talked about my mom and Mary.

Apparently my mom had always been concerned about what others thought about her, but when she met Mary’s mother, it reached a whole new level. Mary’s mother often criticized my mom for all sorts of things - her parenting style, her clothes, her house, you name it. Whenever it was something that my mom could change, she changed it immediately to appease Mary’s mother. That’s also why I was put into dance classes when I was younger - because Mary’s mother signed Mary up for dance classes (one of many examples). So yeah, as most comments suggested, she’s being pushed around by Mary’s mom. Is she a narcissist? I don’t know, I’m not a psychologist.

One thing to know about Mary’s family is that they do a damn good job at appearing “perfect”. Happy family, nice jobs, nice house, etc., I guess my mom bought their persona and tried to copy it. (I’m not going to trash talk the whole family here, but let’s just say that they have just as many flaws as any other family)

Also, my mom was apparently talking shit about me to my dad. Comparing me to Mary in basically every way and she even said multiple times that “she wished Mary was her real daughter”. She also believes that I took away her chance to live her dream life. Fun fact, but according to my dad, my mom’s apparently HUGE on family. She always wanted to have at least 4 children, ironic, I know. She had a pretty traumatic birth experience with me and doctors told her that she shouldn’t try for children again - yeah, apparently she’s blaming me for that. She then hoped that she’d get to live her dream through me - basically that I have a lot of children. Bit of tmi right here, but I’ve mentioned it in the comments a few times already, so whatever; I can’t get pregnant, like at all, which means she (luckily) won’t get any grandchildren from me.

I guess she sticks so close to Mary and Mary’s mother because she hopes to be “a grandma” to Mary’s potential children (that’s honestly so creepy and messed up in my opinion, but well, we’re talking about my mom here)

I also feel the need to clarify that I didn’t know ANY of that. My mom never said anything negative about me to my face - sure, there were some comparisons here and there, but nothing major or something that had an impact on me. It’s always been just general stuff that parents tend to do - comparing grades, behavior, skills, etc. She’s also never directly blamed me for her inability to have any more children and never said anything bad about me not being able to conceive - this is all just stuff she apparently said behind my back. She’s always been pretty alright to me. She most definitely wasn’t the best mom ever, but she wasn’t horrible either - just a person who (in my opinion) shouldn’t have had a child in the first place.

My dad also admitted that he’d considered divorcing her a few times, but never went through with it because he was scared that my mom would get primary custody. He’s currently considering it again, so let’s see how that goes.

As for why he never stood up to my mom? He genuinely didn’t have a reason for it. He knew that my mom’s never said anything like the things above to my face, so he didn’t think that he should tell me (at least not until I moved out). He didn’t engage in these type of conversations with my mom and kept telling her to stop every time - which caused a lot of fighting between them. I knew that their marriage was messed up, but I always thought this had different reasons.

Also, my mom reached out to my mother in law and complained about Dave - how he changed me and stuff (referring to me cutting off Mary and choosing my fiancé over my “best friend”). My MIL (who’s an absolute angel btw) simply asked her why she’s discussing this with her since Dave and I are adults - there’s no need to contact her for it. My mom also told her that Mary said that Dave is cheating on me. She then simply told my mom “sounds like Mary’s projecting” and hung up. I’m honestly so pissed that my mom tried to involve her in this situation and I can’t help but wonder if she tried to create conflict between my MIL and my fiancé. Maybe she genuinely believes Mary and wanted to warn my MIL, but I guess that would be wishful thinking. For some background: my MIL was a single mom because her ex boyfriend (Dave’s father) cheated on her shortly after giving birth - as you might be able to imagine, she hates cheaters with a burning passion and my mom obviously knew that.

So yeah, I guess my mom talked to Mary who doubled down and my mom decided to believe her. I was expecting that this would happen, but honestly, I’m really disappointed. I’m not even sad, angry, or anything - just absolutely disappointed (and confused). I’m currently considering sending her one last text before cutting her out for now, but I don’t know if I should give her the pleasure of receiving an explanation. I’m still on the fence about cutting ties with her in general, mainly for my dad’s sake. Their marriage is rocky already and although he’s considering divorcing her I’m not sure if he’ll actually go through with it. Keeping in contact with one parents while not talking to the other one must put a whole lot of stress on the parent you’re still in touch with, and I quite honestly don’t want to worsen my dad’s home life any further.

It’s so crazy how I’ve lost so many people, who I considered important to me, in such a short amount of time. This whole situation also made me question other people - like my dad - a whole lot. There were so many people in my life throughout all those years and nobody said anything?? Why didn’t my grandparents step in? Or my aunt? Or family friends?? I can’t imagine that they didn’t know about any of it, but then again, I didn’t either.

I also have no idea why I never noticed that my mom held some sort of resentment towards me, shouldn’t I was noticed? I mean, I’ve been living with her under one roof for 18 years, yet I never noticed/imagined that she actually doesn’t like me.

Also yes, Reddit became my new diary, lol.

Some other people also suggested that my parents took Mary’s side because they don’t like Dave which couldn’t be further from the truth - they love him dearly and have considered him part of the family after a few months of us dating.

I’d really appreciate if people who are considering commenting solely on my relationship would refrain from it - it’s not what this post is about, it’s not the main focus, and I’m set on my decision to be with him. You can think whatever you want about my relationship, but at the end of the day, you don’t know either of us or what our relationship is like.

But now onto the actual update.

We visited my parents around noon today, talked about everything, and tried to understand what had happened exactly. Turns out, Mary really was telling a made up story while sprinkling in some truth here and there. Apparently she told people (or at least my parents) that Dave was cheating on me with a coworker of his, which is why she told me to break up with him. She said that this affair had been going on for at least 4 months and that she knows about it because she’d seen them together at a cafe in a different city a few months ago (let’s assume this would be true, why didn’t she inform me or my parents sooner? Like, imagine your “best friend’s” (back then) boyfriend is cheating on her and you know about it - wouldn’t you tell her right away??? This is also why I can’t understand why my parents (especially my mom) would believe her in the first place). According to her story, I got incredibly mad, kicked her out, and haven’t spoken to her since.

Now, some of it is true as you should know from my original post -

For one, her telling me to break up with my fiancé, as well as, me kicking her out and cutting contact. However, the whole story about Dave cheating on me is something I’ve heard about for the first time today + it’s completely made up. Just to remind you, she told me to break up with him because “Dave’s a better boyfriend than Julian (her boyfriend)” (btw, I also feel so sorry for him… I can’t imagine how much she must push him around).

My mom said that she didn’t believe Dave was cheating on me, but was disappointed in me for how I handled the situation, especially since “I couldn’t have known if Mary wasn’t telling the truth”. She thought that cutting off my “best friend” for being “concerned” about me was too harsh and that we should have talked it out.

I’ve also assumed that she’s scared to lose longtime friends when I cut contact with Mary - which also turned out to be true. Mary told her mother what happened (who just so happened to be best friends with my mom) and according to my dad, Mary’s mother is mad at me for “treating her daughter badly” and accused my mom of “not raising me right”. So there’s that as well.

After my mom explained what Mary had told her I went on to tell her what really went down. The jealousy, the manipulation, the lies, all of it (basically the things I’ve said in my original post + much more). She didn’t believe me at first and said that I was blowing things out of proportion, that Mary had good intentions but simply didn’t know how to communicate them well. I showed her some text messages between Mary and me, told her about past incidents, and my fiancé tried to back me up as best as he could since my mom wasn’t listening at all and kept defending Mary. To say that I dug deep and told my parents about all sorts of things is an understatement - I even went as far as telling them about a “sex incident”, so yeah, I didn’t leave out any details.

My dad believed me from the get go, but my mom kept going back to “how great of a person Mary is” and “how she just wants the best for me”. She also kept saying how I’ve never had an issue with Mary in the past (not true!!) and that I’m now creating unnecessary drama because of a misunderstanding (- maybe I’m creating unnecessary drama, maybe not. In my opinion it’s necessary, though. I’ve let her do whatever she wanted for far too long).

At some point my dad simply told her to shut up and to stop making excuses for Mary - so at least I have one parent on my side.

My dad’s always been a very non-confrontational person and never really stood his ground (especially when it came to my mom), but I found out that he thought that Mary didn’t have a good influence on me growing up. He apparently also told my mom that he wanted to limit the contact between Mary and me when we were younger, but my mom didn’t see his point and let our friendship continue.

So basically, this whole issue could have been avoided if my mom would have put her friendship with Mary’s mother aside for her own family. Great.

In the end, my mom said that she’d speak to Mary and ask her if what I’ve said is true, which honestly pissed me off. After everything I’ve told her she still wants to crawl to Mary because apparently “what her actual daughter says isn’t good enough”. She tried to justify it since “Mary is her daughter too” and “it’s unfair to just hear out my side of the story” - alright?? But you already had a heartfelt conversation with Mary in which she was lying to you completely??? After she said all of that we started a screaming match - I know, not healthy, but it honestly felt so damn good to just let it all out.

To say that I cried heavily out of frustration after talking to my mom is an understatement and I’m so glad that my fiancé was with me because I sure as hell wouldn’t have been able to drive home safely. But, on a good note, I got ice cream and we watched my favorite show when we arrived back home which made things better, lol.

I’ve not told my mom that I’m considering not inviting her to my wedding. We’re not planning to get married until next year anyway, so there’s still enough time for her to make up her mind about who she’d rather believe + I don’t want to create too big of a rift between me and her.

As for mutual friends who took Mary’s side, I’ve decided not to respond to them. I’m not sure if Mary told them the same story that she told my parents, but I honestly don’t care. I don’t want to see Mary ever again (or at least not in the foreseeable future) and mutual friends would make that a whole lot harder than it needs to be - besides, they’re not my only friends or close friends of mine. Dave’s also okay with me not running after them to clear his name - if this whole situation should leave this friend group and turn public, I’m going to contact them, but right now, we don’t see a point in dealing with Mary’s minions (that’s something someone called these friends in the comments below my original post. Loved it!)

Right now I’m just hoping that Mary messes up her story somehow and that my mom is going to see her for who she really is. While she’s been acting absolutely disgusting towards me and basically chooses Mary over me in this situation, I think that I can look past this. It’s my mom after all… Cutting off friends is one thing, but cutting off close family? That’s a whole different story and I’ll try to mend things the best I can. If she’s going to stay loyal to Mary… I don’t know what I’m going to do, but that’s not something I have to think about right now.

Once again, thank you for your positive and helpful comments. I’ve read all of them, but they kept coming in at a rapid speed and I didn’t really know how to respond to most. Also, for those who went through something similar, I’m so sorry that this happened to you and I’m incredibly glad that (as far as the comments go) all of you could find peace in your decision to cut toxic friends out of your lives.

When I’m the dd I liberate funds from my family members. Teach them a lesson and profit. Rule 111: Treat people in your debt like family… exploit them.

No you bought that TV cause you were so happy I took you home. No take backs!

And to end on a positive note my boyfriend is now my fiancé. A few days after my post he proposed! His original plan was to take me to see some cutesy light displays in our town after I got home and propose there-which made my heart melt a little since I knew he was so tired after working lol-but when he saw me walk in crying, he read the room and switched things up. When I was feeling better he took me to dinner and proposed there. I have no idea how the wedding will go, or if my parents will be there, but I’m excited to spend it with the people who love and appreciate me.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Did anyone reply to the text

OOP

Don’t know. I blocked everyone who went to the party/asked me to DD and then removed myself from the conversation.

~

CsintiaDream

Wow, first off, congrats on the engagement! 🎉 Sounds like your fiancé is a keeper—he’s got that perfect “read the room and propose when the vibes are right” energy.

Honestly, your text to the group chat was iconic. That’s some real main character energy right there, setting boundaries and refusing to be everyone’s unpaid Uber anymore. I’m glad you stood your ground; you deserve better than being treated like a backup plan for their bad planning.

The fact that your parents doubled down with the gaslighting just proves you made the right call by blocking them for now. That’s a hard move, but it sounds like you’re finally putting yourself first, and that’s huge. And shoutout to your siblings for having your back—sounds like y’all are the real MVPs of the family.

As for the wedding, focus on the people who truly support you. You’ve already got your siblings and fiancé in your corner, and that’s a solid squad. The rest can figure themselves out. You’re starting this new chapter surrounded by love, and honestly, that’s all that matters. Keep shining, you’re killing it

OOP

He’s the best. He’s always had my back against my family. He wanted to come with me to the party to support me because he thought they might act up, but I knew he’d be tired after working so I told him not to worry about it. He also helped me write this post and has been reading all of your comments 😂😂 he says hi!!

SurroundMiserable262

Congratulations and well done on your shiney new backbone.

My advice? Elope don’t invite the majority of your family. Have a wonderful stressfree wedding.

OOP

Me and him want to have a standard wedding :) if worst comes to worse and everyones still being dickheads they just won’t come. My fiancé made a funny point of hiring someone to keep them out LMAO

CarrotofInsanity

Congratulations on EVERYTHING!!!

And tell your parents that they are UNINVITED to your wedding until further notice. You don’t want to hear from them because their behavior was atrocious and you won’t accept disrespect any longer.

OOP

They don’t even know we’re engaged. I put it on my instagram, but they don’t have access to that anymore or my number.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP’s OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

Wtf were those interactions with her friends and mom. Like it’s her wedding maybe try to be nice.

Update: January 21, 2025 (two weeks later)

Well, I’m sure you all are wondering how the wedding went and where Mom slept…

If you’re looking for the original post, you may find it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingdrama/s/vyD8TRQjYi

I feel my story has taken a sad turn. My relationship with my mother is worse than I thought. I’ll get to the story now…

We both arrived at the airport around the same time from our different flights, and my mom had a pain that affected her walking. Not great, since we’re going to be walking around in Vegas. I offer Advil multiple times and she rejects it. I believe she may have taken it one time from me. We arrive at her hotel first, I assume she never canceled her reservation lol because she had a reservation. We dropped our bags at her room and got on with our plans. Later that night, my wife and I checked into our suite - alone.

The first fight with my mom was the next day in my suite. She had interrupted me several times that day (one of our many problems), then pointed out how I interrupted her. At one point I tried to once again begin my story, she interrupts me and I exasperate, “Do you know how many times I’ve tried to tell this story today and you’ve interrupted me?” Then I said, “Do you do this to everyone, or just me?” And she put her middle finger in my face, screaming at me, “fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.” My wife had to intervene and say, “Whoa! That was not necessary!” My wife later told me she almost threw her out of our room. I stuck to my “I statements” and I said, “When you cut me off, it makes me feel like what I’m saying isn’t important.” I should have addressed the “F. U.’s” but it was too heated at the time. I tried to de-escalate and will address this at a later time.

At this point I’m realizing my mother is immature, emotionally immature. Whatever feelings she’s feeling when I confront her, genuinely btw, asking her if she truly does this to everyone or just me, she can’t handle it and freaks out on me like a high schooler. It’s sad. I’m devastated, actually. To have this insight on my wedding getaway caused me a lot of pain. I’ve looked for answers for a long time. I’ve thought maybe she’s narcissistic, my therapist mentioned possible BPD, but I’m looking into emotional immaturity at the moment. I’ve learned it can coincide with narcissism, or BPD, so I can’t necessarily write those off.

Then the night after that, the rest of the party starts to arrive. My wife’s best friend arrives very late and has a reservation in our hotel. She calls my wife to let her know her room isn’t ready, and they’re looking for a room for her. My mother pipes in, “She didn’t call?! AnonymousBrides!! (My name) She didn’t call in advanced to let them know?!” I realize very quickly this sounds like she’s putting the responsibility on me, that the friend’s problem is now suddenly my problem. “Mom, I don’t know if she called in advanced. She’s responsible for her own travel and her own hotel room,” I say. She responds, “Well, are you going to let her stay in your hotel room if she doesn’t get a room?” I reply, “No, she’s not staying in my room, there are plenty of hotel rooms in Vegas, she will get a room tonight. She’s a big girl, Mom.”

“That’s fucked up!” She says.

A good friend of mine also came on the trip with her new partner. Stayed in a different hotel - not a problem. She didn’t arrive to my hotel suite until we were about to be picked up from the limo. She gets along with my mom really well. The minute we were in the limo, the two of them were attached at the hip and I feel like I barely spoke to my friend. I have video and pictures specifically of them ignoring everyone else in the limo and speaking only to each other. I took them because I felt like the party was kind of separated in the limo.

The wedding went off without a hitch! It was absolutely beautiful and I was so incredibly happy. Crying tears of joy, I hope, and not tears of how much in pain I was from the emotional week I had already had.

The next morning, my friend once again ignored me to have breakfast with her partner. We discussed in advanced the time everyone was getting together, and she scheduled her reservation for 30 minutes before. She sat at a different table and ate alone with her partner. We got a table next to her with two extra chairs, but she did not join us. She later asks my wife if I’m upset, and my wife responds, “she thought she’d spend a little time with you on the trip.” I try to let the feeling go, I’m just devastated by the people I’m allowing in my life at the moment. I am really considering evaluating these relationships.

Later in my hotel room that night, I receive a text from my good friend saying that she’s taking off a little early from the trip, blames it on work. I really don’t know why she even came? Just for the vacation I guess. I barely said two words to her in the 5 hours I saw her. Sad, sad, sad. I am so sad about this, about all of this.

Other than the drama, I really enjoyed the trip. I had a lovely time with my wife, and very happy with our hair and makeup, our vendors, our ceremony. It was all so beautiful and I am thankful they came to see us get married. I definitely had some insecurities before going on this trip, and it’s a reality I have issues with some people in my life. I am currently in therapy and had a discussion with my therapist about this. I’m certainly not going ‘no contact’ or ghosting anyone after this, but discussions need to be had, and therapy needs to continue. Books need to be read, and practice needs to be put in place. All I can do is commit myself to a healthy life in all ways, practice radical acceptance. If anyone has any advice on how to let go of the pain, accepting it, or trying to be less emotional about it all, I’m open ears.

Thanks for listening - relationships are hard, especially with emotionally immature people.

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: My wedding also led to a similar interaction with my mother, where I had to state that I don’t let anyone talk to me with that kind of language. Of course me drawing that boundary was seen as an attack. Shortly after, I found the book, The Emotionally Immature Parent. I realized I have two, actually. I’m glad it didn’t ruin your ceremony, and I’m also glad you already have a therapist.

OOP: Thanks. Yes, I actually downloaded it a couple of weeks ago on the advice of my therapist and was able to get pretty deep into it even with the wedding activities going on. I can’t wait to read it again.

Commenter 2: Please resolve that NO ONE, not even–and especially not–your flesh oven gets to scream in your face, flip you off, and yell “F You!” and that anyone who does so instantly loses all access to you. That’s what boundaries are for.

OOP: Yeah, I can’t let that go - it needs to be addressed.

Commenter 3: It sounds like your friend was trying to give you space because it was your wedding. A lot of brides and grooms are pressured to spend every single second of their wedding or trips on their guests. Maybe she was trying to do you a favor by letting you enjoy your time and not feel pressured.

OOP: True, but there was an other time we vacationed together and she kind of did her own thing. I like to consider the different perspectives though, and I appreciate this perspective. A lot of others have said the same.

Commenter 3: Yeah, I wouldn’t take it personally. I’m kind of like your friend. I need a lot of time off of my own, especially if it’s with a lot of other people. Hell, I need time off on my own even if it’s a small group.

OOP: I’m introverted in that way too, but I guess the people pleaser in me just continues to spend the time with them until I can finally get some alone time. I just thought it was really rude. I would feel rude if I did that to someone else. Like I said, maybe that’s a people pleasing move, but it feels lack of etiquette/manners.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

My GIL is late stage. I’m sure she’ll take a dose. What’s the worst it could do?