Serious answers only. For over a year I was told that trump “doesn’t have anything to do with that”.
I honestly need to know from an actual Republican who believed trumps words and is now witnessing p2025 almost hit 50% completion with the department of education getting dismantled.
And with that; how do these people feel that public schools, daycare centers and tech schools all going to cost 3-6x as much as it does now for tuition?
I know a couple life-long Republicans I sometimes briefly talk about politics with (one family, one acquaintance). Neither of them like Trump, but like the idea around Project 2025. One is an evangelical Christian, the other is a Catholic.
The Catholic strongly believes government should be run like a business, and the president should be like a CEO, so he should be able to fire everyone and replace them, if needed, with workers that will execute his plans. He’s also an anti-abortion, and tough-on-crime/immigration type. However, he strongly disapproves of Trump seemingly being pro-Russian now, Trump and his cabinet’s personal lives (he’s always strangely fixated on people’s personal lives, in a moral sense, for some reason), the take-over of the FBI and CIA, and the tariffs hurting his stock portfolio.
The evangelical Christian just doesn’t like Trump as a person, and doesn’t like Russia. He’s a just-world-hypothesis, small government, women are subservient, pro-business type; but also low/lower-middle-class, and has needed, and will need the social services he opposes. I guess his opinions are pretty similar to the Catholic’s, just a little more extreme on the social side, and supports policies that have always hurt him. I mean, Republican policies hurt the (fairly wealthy) Catholic too, but at least they get to say their taxes are lower and there’s less red-tape.
No offense but your personal experience does not characterize an entire religion. 2 people do not speak for 2 religions unless one of those people is the Pope.
The reality is people often use the guise of religion as an excuse for them to act a certain way when in reality they are just bigots.
Didn’t mean to paint entire religions. It was just a convenient way to differentiate the 2 people I was talking about, and to imply where their motivations may come from. I’ve known plenty of less right-wing Catholics and Protestants. I am an anti-theist though, and think religion does more harm than good.
Idk I grew up as a fundamentalist. It the religion is shitty without the toxic politics.
He wants a king, not a democracy
He thinks the president should hire/fire anyone they want, but they dislike the people the president has been choosing.
“Government should be run like a business” sounds like a totalitarian religion.
So basically the opposite of what the founding fathers wanted with separation of powers and checks and balances, right?
I thought these people were cosplaying traditionalists.
Yeah, these people are ignorant of and don’t care about civics. The ignorance of the one guy surprised me, because they went to a decent college, but didn’t even know what gerrymandering was. They are un-american, IMO.
And this boys, girls, and the Eldritch entity in my cupboard is why the humanities are so important, if you want other examples go watch the Behind the Bastards episodes on the Zizians.
Interesting. Thanks for the time man.
Project 2025 is the most double talky I’ve ever seen Donald Trump. “Project 2025? Nope, never seen it, never heard of anything in it, but it’s got some great ideas. I’m not going to follow it and I don’t have anything to do with it but I hear it has some really good ideas, but I won’t be adhering to them.”
Reminds me of the “Unite The Right” rally where he wouldn’t really condemn anyone: “Those folks are really nasty, but also there’s a lot of good folks.”
I think this is part of his “charm”. He double talks, so if you are a fan you perk up on the positives and let your eyes glass over during the bad parts.
this was actually a key part of Hitler’s strategy. early on in the Nazi meetings they would try to pin down and give an exact agenda and set of policies.
he would yell at everyone that they’re missing the point. it’s more about the vibe than the logic. being vague and ambiguous keeps your options open.
“It is not truth that matters, but victory.” Adolph
By refusing precise definitions, you are able to retroactively decide what the ideology “always meant”. so when it’s convenient to hate against health insurance CEOs you are “against the swamp”. when it’s convenient to dismantle the government you are “against the swamp”
it can mean whatever you want it to. similar with the “enemies of the state”
nazis would use the word marxists or “degenerates” very loosely. makes it very easy to shift blame to a specific target or another when necessary
berlin’s degeneracy is because of gays, somewhere else it may be gypsies, another it’s the jews, etc.
today we see phrases like “radical leftists” “cultural marxists” “woke ideology” etc
a federal judge blocked some of Trump’s orders (Trump ignored it of course) and what does he call him? a radical left judge. something that couldn’t be further from the truth- radical left would imply some type of communist or socialist. but it doesn’t really matter because the term is vague enough it can work
You were lied to, unfortunately. Project 2025 was always their plan, and as you’re seeing now, they’re going full steam ahead with it. The best thing you can do now is learn from this mistake. Don’t trust what politicians tell you they want, or tell you they’re doing; see for yourself what they’re actually doing.
By the way, you’re going to get responses from like 95% leftists since it’s lemmy. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong though.
What kind of a moron believes anything a politician says, especially a openly fascist cunt
Like 80% of the US apparently
What? Bro I voted for Harris lmao. I’m also a wannabe Canadian, don’t like this country.
The period is tripping everyone up lmao
I honestly need to know. From an actual Republican who believed trumps words
Fair lol. I try to type how I would speak so it’s meant to be a pause
I live surrounded by republicans and they are super happy with all the good things Trump is doing together with puppet master Musk. Everything that he said during his fake State of the Union was truth and proof of his many victories during the first 2 months of his presidency. I tried once to bring up how the tariffs are sales tax for Americans (making life even more unaffordable), because I thought that would be something nobody could disagree with, and weeks later I’m still getting shit about it. I am convinced that he could launch a nuke on a ‘lib city’ and most of the republicans would still applaud it. In a cult the leader is always right and is never to blame for the bad.
yea it seems they are into this idea that manufacturing will come back in the united states. nevermind that the equity growth and low prices of goods these guys are enjoying are due to the united states not manufacturing things, getting things through trade while exporting intellectual property instead. nothing they are doing is going to bring down home prices. it’s objectively a misunderstanding of economics.
There’s a guy in the news at the moment who has started a GoFundMe for a legal defence for his wife who has been deported. Says he doesn’t regret his vote for Trump.
Complete non sequitur, but i knew someone about 20 years ago that referred to herself as Sara Tonin. Hope she’s doing ok.
brilliant comment /genuine
It’s crazy. How many Democrats do you know that had Joe Biden profile pictures? I know people can’t tell their in a cult usually. But man they make it obvious most of the time.
I got into an argument with my dad a couple days ago about this exact thing.
I was bitching that despite being given unlimited power, Biden just fucked off and let the carion eaters have their way with the corpse of America. His response? “It’s all Biden’s fault.” He’s being sarcastic and thinks he’s making fun of maga, but he’s right. This shit is Biden’s fault. And Garland’s, and all the other bitches in Blue. He actually thinks I’m defending fucking TRUMP when i point out Dems fuckups. He goes on and on about how politics isn’t a team sport, but then he engages in fucking tribalism, just like the magats.
It’s infuriating.
He actually thinks I’m defending fucking TRUMP when i point out Dems fuckups.
Herein lies the biggest problem. We’ve taken up sides along the single line drawn for us, and are therefore blinded to the fact that this is a class war. You can say “it’s not red versus blue”, and get nods of agreement, and then in the next sentence, they’ll say shit like this, showing they don’t really get it.
It’s not left and right, it’s up and down.
At this point, I don’t know why Republicans don’t outright just say they want people who they see as less than them suffering and/or dead. That’s their only consistent political view.
Studies show that people on the left are more trusting of others in general than those on the right. It is reflected in their obsession with guns and their rejection of social programs.
Leftist ideology is at its core about people. Even when it is wrong, it’s wrong trying to help people.
The right is just about power. The only mistakes it makes are actions that cost it power.
So many of them are in denial about it themselves. It’s very strange indeed.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this post, and I appreciate you noticing this trend.
But I’ve got to be honest: the writing was on the wall the whole time. Being in the Republican bubble doesn’t really change the fact that you only get here from a lack of critical thinking and a general susceptibility to propaganda. These are things that many people spend time and resources getting educated about. It’s hard to have sympathy when the whole country is now suffering because so many were so sure they knew better.
If I sound angry, I am. I do hope you take it constructively, but you also need to understand: most of the damage has already been done. It doesn’t really matter how you feel from here on out, because the deed (from voters) is done.
I voted for Harris lol, and that was because I thought she was the lesser of the two evils overall. I wish Michelle Obama ran for office.
Then how was it that you “believed Trump’s words”?
What?
You said you thought she was the lesser of two evils. I’m not sure how that is believing Trump’s words, as you said in the original post.
He was not believing Trump’s words, you’re misinterpreting his post
Ah, got it. Thanks.
I took the sentence “From a Republican…” as OP saying they were a Republican who had changed their view (since it isn’t really a full sentence… alas).
Wishful thinking, I guess.
Reread the post, or remove the period
What period?
Edit: nm, got it. Period in OP.
I’m really digging the irony of this thread…
YouGov has good data
I don’t see any drastic changes on Trump’s approval, but there’s unfavorablity across the board otherwise
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Donald_Trump
This is a cool website. Thank you.
Like it’s their third rail of blow and their homie just picked up another ounce.
I don’t know any republicans personally but I would not be surprised if, given a choice between admitting fault and feeling bad, or literally any other option including lying or violence, they won’t admit fault. If they weren’t emotionally stunted, they wouldn’t be conservatives.
I have literally stopped speaking to my parents over this and have put the ball in their court, telling them that all they need to do is re-evaluate their position about this one fucking guy and admit they were wrong.
And I guess they’re fine with just not speaking to their son instead.
Humans in general are very hesitant to admit that they were wrong. Cult members doubly so.
It’s so unfortunate too, because so many of our society’s current ills can literally be boiled down to “so and so refused to admit they were wrong”
Yeah I realized admitting fault is kind of a power move. You can just be like “oh! I was wrong. Woops” and what might have been a like hour long argument about some unimportant minutia instead just wraps up. Nothing bad happens.
This is why blaming conservatives or getting them to admit fault doesn’t work. It only makes them become more defensive and entrenched.
A better approach is to appeal to their victim complex. IE: Instead of “Trump is ruining this country and its your fault for voting for him!” try “Dude, Trump is screwing us! This isn’t the great America we were promised!” or some variation of that. Gotta use different tactics.
I’m not sure it’s possible to blame Trump rather than his voters when he literally promised to make most of these changes. It might be more effective to say that Trump was misled by Musk.
Yeah, you have to make them see you as a member of a shared in-group. That’s the most important thing to them (and many people, honestly. we’re all susceptible to tribalism and such)
they’re not going to “snap out of it”. what he does for them isn’t the point. he could personally fire each and every Republican and fuck every one of their wives but as long as he’s a big tough guy triggering the libz, it’s all fine. this is just 21st century politics now.
Dang. At least in Black Mirror 21st century politics got to be shadow-ruled by an animated blue dog puppet, which took a modicum of the edge off the oppression.
I remember finding that episode annoying when it first came out.
I watched it again after 2016, and boy did I view it differently.
According to my neighbors on neighborhood.com, it’s fake news. Seriously. They simply don’t believe Trump has anything to do with it.
Pretty much. Somethings are going to be the same, they’re just that obvious, the sky is blue, water is wet, and we should deport illegal immigrants. But a lot of p25 goes well beyond that.
I still don’t see them as Trump’s actual plan.
I’m like one of three conservatives here, do you really expect a response?
i was hoping for a response yes. and really hoping for an actual intellectual as well.
so what makes you think it isn’t trumps plan? even though you can follow the progress online of p2025 and trump is checking off each objective.
what do you see p2025 as? and do you think it will make america “awesome again”
so what makes you think it isn’t trumps plan?
They’re an idiot, duh
Their name is eerily close to a reference to a famously horrible and Nazi-infested (like, actually) instance, especially given their previously discussed viewpoint, so they’re probably also a Nazi openly lying about their beliefs
Reddthat isn’t a Nazi instance, wtf.
The fuck are you talking about?
I see Trump’s plan as Trump’s plan. P25 holds some similarities, some things are just that obvious, like illegal immigrants should be deported, but it’s not Trump’s plan. P2025 is it’s own thing, some wishlist created by some think tank that got picked up by the news because it’s so stereotypical.
I think that Trump’s plan is an attempt to put America back on the right track economically.
Protective tariffs for instance, are a pretty standard way of protecting domestic industry. It’s expensive to comply with OSHA and labor laws, it’s a lot cheaper to make stuff in China and ship it over here. Tariffs make it so that it’s no longer cheaper. Bernie Sanders agrees, even if can’t directly agree with Trump. https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trump-tariffs/
Does p25 have anything on tariffs? No, they don’t.
P25 does have stuff on things like racial discrimination, which no politician in their right mind would support.
P25 literally does have stuff on tariffs and it’s exactly what is happening right now.
It starts on page 765. https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf Like literally the entire section from page 765-783 are just about tariffs and how high to increase them.
And an article discussing it https://seekingalpha.com/article/4769053-what-project-2025-tells-us-about-what-will-happen-tariffs-april-2
Tbh, I only ever read the cliff notes. I never read the hundreds of pages, I had better things to do with my time.
I also haven’t read the hundreds of pages, but it was a simple search away (either a search engine or literally just typing ‘tariff’ into the PDF). You said something that wasn’t true and didn’t bother to check if it was accurate before hand, and it was kind of the base “fact” of your entire post.
I do appreciate that you’re willing to come in here and actually discuss your viewpoint, which is why I tried to react quite neutrally. I would appreciate continuing the conversation because I do wonder if that revelation has changed your view that trump has no ties to P25.
Tariffs are one way to protect domestic industry.
They are completely useless when that industry does not exist already. When an industry doesn’t exist and you want to build it, you need subsidies, not tariffs.
Do you believe the US has sufficient industry to protect? Or that we should instead be focused on growing more?
Yes I do. We have chip fabs, car factories, steel mills, all sorts of things. But they’ve been hurt by the likes of China for a very long time.
Did you know Gary Indiana used to have a Steel Mill? And it was when it closed that Gary went to shit?
And we can do both. We already are subsidizing lots of things.
We are not subsidizing recreating those factories that are gone. Which is a shame.
What you’re saying makes sense if we were putting tariffs an those specific industries that we have factories for, but not other industries. Are we doing that?
Republicans already passed the removal of DEIA in the workforce. Idk how you feel about that but that can be seen as racial discrimination which a lot of Republicans have shown don’t give a shit about. A lot are pro white power, women are baby makers. i also can’t see how someone would think p2025 or “trumps plan” as a good thing. I see no benefits to destroying government agencies with no though or plan before hand. How many times has he fired a department only for him to go “woops . We actually needed those people” and then rehire them? 3?.. 4?. Like what’s the point? A lot of Republicans say “we are finding the fraud, so much winning”. How do you feel saying that or hearing it knowing that trump is convicted of 34 felonies? Was on tape gloating how he walked on in naked 15 year old girls and is an actual fraud to the country?
How do you feel about our administration literally editing the Internet and leaves of history to remove anyone of color or nationality other than white?
How do you feel about doge finding “wasted tax payer money” but trump plays golf with tax payer money? I’m sorry I just don’t understand and no one has ever answered these questions they just deflect. Like you can’t deny trump is a fucking scum bag monster pedophile
Thanks for being honest. What is Trumps actual plan?
Trump’s plan is an attempt at putting America’s economy back on track. Protective tariffs, less “aid” to foreign nations, deporting illegal immigrants, not acting like the world’s police when it’s Europe that will be affected most, that sort of thing.
First of all, the economy was doing fine under Biden.
How is banning the words “female”, “women” and “bias” in research papers getting the economy back on track?
How is taking away the passports of trans people and changing their gender getting the economy back on track?
Was it really do well, or was it doing well for the rich? Because all I ever heard on Lemmy was that they were broke and oppressed by the system.
And the whole dei shit was a badly worded EO compounded by bad actors upset with the EO. You should actually read the EO if you’re curious, it’s not long. He did not ban any of those words.
How is that something to mention? It sounds so minor, I doubt he knew of it. And getting advice from a variety of people is a good thing and probably helped. Why are you against it?
They are not taking away passports. If you read the damn article, one transman had trouble renewing his, and the bureaucracy was taking it’s time figuring it out. I ran into the same damn thing when I renewed mine two years ago, and I’m cis. Not every single issue is because of your identity. Sometimes shit happens.
Contributions to global organisations is what is known as “soft power” - for example, the only time NATO article 5 has been invoked is by the USA after 9/11
And guess what - every other country stood up and came to America’s defence. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a pretty good deal to spend a few million for the billions you get back in cooperative agreements with the rest of the world.
So tell me, how does funding a musical in Ireland help with that?
Honestly, if we’re taking the stance of "lets run the government like a business*,
It’s just good marketing.
It makes people in other countries that little bit more likely to buy something made in the USA, or to visit as tourists or to volunteer to help during a natural disaster.
The example you’re referring to isn’t even in the millions - it was around $70K! Ireland spent $163 Billion on Amercian services because of a good, long standing relationship between the two countries.
By making America seem like a good neighbor. Would you lend a hand to someone who doesn’t treat you decently?
Treaties, military aid, investment, all of them requires the feeling that things will turn out alright if you get involved. A dickhead like Trump makes it clear that he would shank you and fuck your mother, just because he feels likes it. To say the least, no reasonable or good person would want to associate with a Trumpian nation.
Nations within and without, are built on relationships.
How do you rectify the idea of not being world police with:
"I have signed a declaration to use emergency authorities to expedite the delivery of approximately $4 billion in military assistance to Israel. "?
Or is that somehow different?
Because Israel is literally the only liberal country in the middle east, relatively speaking. If they can expand their influence, less women will be oppressed, less gay people will get thrown off buildings, and Jewish people won’t be massacred until there’s none left in the middle east.
And why are siding with Hamas and Hezbollah? Do you hate LGBT people? Do you just hate women? Do you just want to see the aggressors win?
I bet you didn’t even know that they’ve been attacking this entire time. Just yesterday, Hamas fired 3 rockets in an attempt to kill more civilians. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2dr7jd7mno Or maybe you do know and you like killing civilians?
So you’re saying it’s ok if we’re policing the world as long as it’s for liberal countries?
To some extent. We need a good ally in the middle east. I’d say that Germany should be the one footing the bill, but they’re not a particularly reliable ally when it comes to military funding.
Israel is a pretty unique case, and they’re surrounded by those who have done harm and wish to do more harm to us. It’s not a great position, but it’s the one they’re in.
Ok. So we fund countries that are battling other countries that have done us harm. Proxy fights, if you will. So Israel and Ukraine. And cut the rest of the funding for wars.
That seems reasonable. Is that what we’re doing?
I think the reasoning is very simple: Israel is extremely important in the Bible. Many conservatives like the Bible so supporting it seems good to them. Especially if it’s against Islam which is associated with immigrants and terror.
I’ve been trying to crack this and it seems impossible. It’s a black box. You can dismantle every policy by looking at it from a certain standpoint and trying to apply your subjective logic to it. But when Zionist Israel is on the table, all logic goes out the window.
We can take the presidents one by one:
Obama - change - doesn’t change anything about relations and policies with Israel
Biden - staunch defender of Israel. Doesn’t matter what they do, he condemns anything and everything bad, but Israel commits genocide and he doesn’t even acknowledge it.
Harris - polls showed that she could have gained massive voter support, had she expressed anything in favour of Palestine and acknowledge genocide, but she decided to lose instead for some reason. Proof of what would win her the election wasn’t enough. She could have lost the Zionist campaign funding and still come out ahead.
Trump - you’d assume he doesn’t care about money because he already has it, doesn’t care about power because he’s literally the president of the most powerful nation. He’s immune to prosecution, so Israel can’t even have something as stupid on him as being a serial child rapist, he’d shrug it off. That stupid Gaza beach resort video. Still doesn’t make sense from fiscal standpoint. He also breaks tradition and protocol on everything.
There could be better allies in the region, and there have been. But it has to be Israel for some reason, in its current apartheid and genocidal state. My only explanation would be that the Zionist government of Israel and the US government are one and the same on some level, somehow, somewhere.
Just for some perspective: in 2009 I was a Christian nationalist and I thought Obama was going to use FEMA to imprison conservative dissenters and would turn the US into a communist dictatorship. I hoped and prayed for an explicitly Christian government and an end to most federal programs. If I had the same worldview now, I would be orgasmically happy with the way things are going.
What denomination, primarily, were you? Did you manage to get anyone out with you? (I was unable.)
I’d also be interested in hearing about how you changed your views.
Not even trying to be mean but probably themself or someone they know personally got hurt.
This is very common, but was not the reason for my worldview change.
Yep. That crowd never changes until they are directly impacted somehow.
You do see that quite a bit in “ex” subreddits. Personal experience can shake anyone’s views, not just “that crowd.” Spiritual abuse played a role in pushing me away from religious fundamentalism, but there were other factors that laid the groundwork. The process took years and key elements involved a mind-expanding book, two compassionate friends, a podcast, and a local news story that showed me God was quite a bit different than I thought he was. I’ll write the book about it under another comment.
Not necessarily. In my case, psychedelics played a huge role in finally making everything click.
Oh, hey. That whole mind expanding thing really isn’t a joke. I look back, sometimes, on who I used to be.
How in the name of sweet baby imaginary white Jesus did you get out of that mindset!?
Not the person you replied to but I also used to be a hardcore Christian convertitive.
Honestly just talking to people with different viewpoints than me. Back when Reddit was decent I would troll with conservative BS to get a rise out of commenters, but occasionally people would reply with points I couldn’t refute. Making IRL friends helped a lot too. I realized people actually have nuance in their opinions and there’s a lot more gray area than I realized. Leaving relgion was the last step for me. Once my identity was no longer my beliefs I was able to change them.
Its part of what scares me about the internet now, we all get locked in little echo chambers. Nobody’s viewpoints get challanged and there’s no honest debate any more. Defederated social media will only make it worse as there will be 10,000 different Lemmys, each one for an exactly specific set of beliefs that will never be questioned.
Pray tell what changed your view?
Reality
Ask the guy who had his wife deported and is still supporting Trump.
I’d prefer to never have to interact with someone that hateful and stupid.
Do you think that Project 2025 isn’t what a bunch of conservatives want? It didn’t just come from one person. A bunch of people wanted to vote for this.
ive known about it and who wrote it when it first showed up online. i know its a hardcore Christian conversion of the USA and i see it as the US turning into some sort of north korea
