I assume he can’t come back because he’s dead
Remember when the state cared?
I sure as shit don’t remember them caring about Gitmo, Manzanar, the cages in the border, the CIA blacksites domestic and foreign, the continuous treatment of Natives for 300 years… Only a problem now that’s its mainstream. Maybe now they’ll hold up signs acting like they’ve always cared about the treatment of non-whites.
He’s most likely dead. That’s the reason why they can’t get him back.
I keep telling everyone. Get armed and get trained. Because the war for this nation is coming.
It’s here already just loads of you can’t see it.
The class War has always been ongoing.
Millions of us are protesting and direct action groups are gaining more support and being more active. We’re slow to the draw yes, and this type of movement should have happened much earlier, but it’s inaccurate to say none of us are doing anything
What are direct action groups are doing? I’ve only heard of protests, which have frankly zero effect on the Trump regime. The idea that something will come out of these protests, that someone will escalate is fundamentally flawed; until you and people like you decide to escalate nothing will happen, and if you want to know what your average American thinks of escalation go out on April 19th and ask people around you what they think about participating in a general strike within the year. Like ask 30 people or something, record the answers and see what you’ll get. The situation won’t change until the people of America change it with their own hands; no inevitable march of history is coming to save you.
The revolution will not be televised…
i think the point hes getting at mainly is that none of the protesting groups are taking up firearms and removing the potus by force along with his cronies. you are not militant enough compared to what is written in your constitution for this exact scenerio.
protesting where the police allow you to is “controlled opposition” and its part of the allowed illusion of potential change. its what allows viewers at home who may agree with the movement, to feel hopeful, and like they dont have to do anything because someone else is already doing something. resolving things democratically will only take you so far with a head of state and entrenched system of control that not only doesnt follow the rules of democracy, but is actively trying to dismantle it.
protest as much as you wish, but if theres no bite after your bark, it rings hollow.
source? occupy wallstreet. where they poured champaign on protestors from high rises and skyscrapers, laughing, and taking pictures as they continued to rob everyone below. nothing changed. not really. if anything it got worse.
Taking up arms at this point would be absurdly foolish. They’d just deploy actual militant forces to stop you and you’d essentially kill any progressive movement for a couple decades, because they’d be associated with violence and extremism
I don’t think that’s how that works. Historically, peace rarely gets results. Do you think the end of the holocaust came about through peaceful protest? French or American revolution? The hands off protest was marked 3rd largest in US history by Wikipedia and nothing has changed. Black lives matter protests were arguably ineffective considering we elected Trump again. We see time and time again that armed conservatives and police forces freely obtain what they want so much to the point that their most desperate members felt comfortable enough to storm the Capitol and they got pardoned. I think the mindset to advocate for peace isn’t one that aligns with results. We see the results. I don’t like violence, but I know they’d love to inflict violence against me.
I view both peaceful and violent protest to be tools meant to work together. The hammer of violence and the anvil of peace, shaping the politics of yore into something more useful.
Problem is, the media and education in America has solely emphasized peaceful movements, while ignoring or downplaying the value of violence. This is a deliberate effort made by evil oligarchs and naive peaceniks, whose reasons happen to align with the result.
the US itself was a progressive movement built on violence. thats why you have the right to vote, and you dont hail the king. the constitution itself was written by extreme, violent, progressives (well, progressive for their time) also, people rally around (arguably) justified, righteous violence in the US, just look at luigi mangione for example.
also laying down and taking it will kill progressive movements for not decades, but centuries. look at basically all of history. for a long time (millenia) people of wealth were thought to be annointed by god himself. it wasnt until people starved in the face of their greed that violence became the only answer they understood. and its what is largely responsible for the birth of democracy and the shrinking monarchies over time. something trump/musk and co are seemingly trying to reverse. while casting the illusion that you “taking the high road” is somehow morally superior, rather than literally fighting for the rights of your friends, families, and neighbours. dooming them in the process to the whims of a new american fascist monarch.
people have died for your rights, its a shame the american peoples limit for retribution has been watered down to holding a clever quip on a piece of cardboard, compared to the actions that built your country and gave you your rights in the first place.
they want you to remain impotent, meak, and mild. they want you to feel hopeless. powerless. and they want you to think bumper stickers, signs, flags, and liking social media posts are silver bullets in the heart of fascism.
they are not. its just a small piece of rebellion against the forces of fascism. again, bark with no bite means nothing to those who have demonstrated they are willing to do both of those things.
“freedom isnt free, no, theres a hefty fuckin fee. and if you dont pitch in your buck o’ five, who will?” - Trey Parker.
This is a matter of timing not principle. It is not the right time yet. Short of successful extremely targeted attacks ala Mangione, you will be branded a terrorist and rejected and hurt everyone you tried to help.
and bumper stickers and rallies absolutely are critical in building the actual movement in the first place. Even if you do take up arms or whatever who are you going to do it with? Or is the plan to just go out on the street and start shooting cops?
please re read my last comment. i feel like you didnt understand it based on what you wrote. try to remove emotion from how you process my words.
targeted action is key to success. mindless violence towards innocents is pointless. and a shameful waste of life.
i wont write you a play by play, but imagine how you would logically carry out a militant plan yourself, and go from there.
(this is a thought excersize, purely hypothetical, and shouldnt be taken seriously by anyone reading this. there is no organized efforts here, same goes for all previous comments on this subject)
I read it as an ideological speech to take more direct action, something you feel has been lost in today’s political climate relative to history, in the context of my previous comment disagreeing with your parent comment literally saying to “take up firearms” and not resolve things democratically. I don’t know what else you’re trying to say.
Every protest is a sea of organization. Thousands and thousands of people convening in a public space for a cause compels people to think about those next steps. It’s a process of breaking inertia. But yes, these always require a politival mechanism: support for a bill, a race, a party, etc or they will get co-opted by the ruling class.
That’s what happened with Occupy Wall Street, yes, though it still resulted in a major wave of political organization. The movement being ignored resulted in a major wave of disenfranchised people who turned to fascism thinking it would be a viable alternative. But at the same time it helped prime people to actually give Bernie a chance in 2016.
USA, the land of seemingly unlimited guns yet none of you will do anything about the dictatorship that is happening before your eyes.
Remember how America has the largest military on the planet, and how even our local police forces are armed with machines of war and mass destruction. Yeah, every single one of those guys works for the dictator so forgive me if I don’t go John Fucking Rambo on the White House with a repeater I bought at Walmart.
We’re showing up to protests by the millions, we’re using our voices, we’re pressuring elected leaders to stand up and fight back, we’re fucking trying to stop this shit, so honestly fuck off with this sort of reductive armchair general critiquing.
Immigration is your only choice
Sit there and wait for them to kill you instead. Guns are your only hope. Until you wake up and realize it you’ll watch your countrymen be killed en masse. Possibly your own family and friends. Just because it’s not you right now doesn’t mean it’s not going to be.
Remember how America has the largest military on the planet, and how even our local police forces are armed with machines of war and mass destruction.
This guy went against a column of tanks with two bags of groceries.
Americans can’t get organised to march with their guns to see how far the military will defend the dictatorship, when you make it hard for them.
So for years we’ve been right about the 2A, completely useless and only there to feed the military-industrial machine, weak egos and gang violence.
Yeah and he died. Get off your fucking high horse and stop pressuring people to commit suicide in the name of what you think is right.
Honest question and I don’t want to antagonise: If it came to it, what would you give your life for?
Oh no, is standing up to dictators and fascism dangerous?
Well better just lick boots then, huh?
It’s not like fascism ever endangered any lives, right? It’s not like we had this exact conversation about “resistance not being the answer, we can’t be expected to put ourself in danger” 100 years ago.
And back then we let the fascist fucksticks get all the way to engineered killing camps. Are we gonna let them get that far — again?
And if you’re gonna say something about me being a keyboard warrior, I’m ready and trained and in the Finnish reserves. I don’t like the idea of having to engage in combat, but I’ll do what is necessary if it comes to that.
This time we aren’t fighting it, because individualism means screw the world.
Lol good luck buddy.
He also got disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. Not exactly the example I’d use.
The question is what is the right thing to do, no matter the personal cost.
By pointing out American hypocrisy through a reductionist view of gun politics in the U.S.?
If you can’t figure out by now that the majority of blue voters are not the ones who were arming themselves… or that they were the ones voting for gun control… what are you trying to say, again?
what are you trying to say, again?
Oh, it’s quite simple, really:
Thank you for your meaningful contribution.
People have stood up to more with less that is certain. The excuses abound. This person will one day find themselves on the wrong end of a gun barrel regardless.
Well, the problem.on the guns side is that the Democrats spent decades villifying gun ownership, so 90% of the guns are owned by supporters of the fascist fuck.
It depends where you live honestly. I grew up in NJ in a very blue suburb and every male child on the block was out of school during the first week of deer season. Now that I’m older every leftist I know is strapped.
I have like 50 guns. I tell people that I’m so far left that I’ve circled back around on guns.
But the reality is I’m mostly just a gun nerd who also used to be a gun salesman and got a ton of freebies from the manufacturer.
That is a pretty handy skillset. Many people are going to need advice in the years ahead.
Agreed a lot of us far left people have guns we just don’t go around bragging about it
Yes. I agree. For decades we should have been fighting.
There is very much a reason.
Will you stop posting shit claiming he was accidentally deported? He was deported intentionally. The government lawyer that argued in court that the government had deported Garcia by mistake has since been fired. Stephen Miller himself said that “There was no mistake”. They are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
The Trump administration said in court filings he was accidentally deported.
That accident was because they are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
Did 2 judges deem him to be MS13? Because if they did I’m getting Rittenhouse vibes over this. Dems jumping up and down/flooding the internet by calling him (Rittenhouse) a murderer. The law is clear, as dumb and idiotic as Rittenhouse was, someone pointed a gun at someone who was also armed. He defended himself. But Dems were in so deep they were acting like brainwashed Republicans. This may end up similar. Dems are in too deep, soaking up post after post telling them he was never part of MS13 and are too arrogant to admit they were wrong.
Do you want to see the court transcripts showing that he was never in the state that the person accusing him of being a gang member said he was in? Or the court ruling that said he wasn’t a gang member?
When you read the 5th amendment do you skip the “No person” section?
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing I’m just pointing out the issues with each narrative and don’t want to be sucked into another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems. One side is saying he was MS13 and a duel citizen and the other is suggesting he was not MS13. If he was not in the state, that doesn’t disprove he was MS13, which as far as I can tell is what this is all hinging on. Legally speaking though it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling. If they couldn’t get the state he was in right that does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13.
INAL but no person would apply only to US citizens? Kilmar being a duel citizen is where it gets grey?
another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems.
Rittenhouse got due process, as much as I and many others regret the jury’s verdict.
Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia got no due process, so no judge nor jury got to cast a verdict on the Trump Administration’s claims. Instead, Trump acted as judge, jury, and executioner by sending Garcia to El Salvador when we knew he obtained a withholding of removal specifically for that country in 2019.
Even if the narratives were false, in Garcia’s case, Trump is removing your rights. That alone should be enough to pay attention and disapprove of Trump’s actions.
he was MS13
He was not. He immigrated to the US without proper documentation in 2011 at the age of 16 to escape gangs in El Salvador. Why would you try to escape gangs if you were part of one?
a duel citizen
He was not a dual citizen. Garcia has citizenship in El Salvador, but received a withholding of removal status in the US, an alternative to asylum. He was a legal resident of the US, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
he was not MS13
This is true.
that doesn’t disprove he was MS13
No evidence was presented in immigration court that Garcia was part of MS-13. Instead, hearsay from a police officer (who later was found to supply confidential information to an escort, breaking his oath as a cop) and a anonymous informant (who said Garcia was in a NYC MS-13 gang, when Garcia lived in Maryland, not NYC) were deemed good enough for the immigration court. Neither the police officer nor informant were allowed to be cross-examined at the time, so we have no idea if these are lies or not. The judge didn’t allow it.
it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling.
Do you mean it is on the lawyers accusing Garcia to show sufficient evidence? The judge doesn’t show evidence in a trial… They rule on the evidence…
does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13
As it should. The entire thing was a sham.
no person would apply only to US citizens?
This sentence does not make any sense.
Kilmar being a duel citizen
Again, Garcia was not a dual citizen. He was a legal resident of the US as afforded by a withholding of removal verdict, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
Please for the love of Truth educate yourself before speaking nonsense on the internet. You literally have Chrome or Firefox at your fingertips.
Can you show one source claiming he was a dual citizen? You are literally the first person I’ve seen make that claim.
You fundamentally misunderstand the state-gang claim. One person said he was in the gang when he was in the other state. Except he has never been to that state. That’s one of the reasons a judge found the claim he was in the gang by be completely baseless. A judge. The judge that reviewed all the evidence.
Nine Supreme Court justices, the president, and the lawyers representing the president all agreed that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was here legally and was illegally deported without due process. Yet people who can barely pass a Turing test know more than these experts and came to a different conclusion.
No person means no person. Citizen or otherwise. The Constitution doesn’t grant rights. It assumes they are inalienable to all people and established rules telling the government they couldn’t take them away. This is constitutional law 101. Everyone gets due process. Citizen or otherwise. Because the alternative was the road to tyranny.
Thanks for that. The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi. I know they’re very low credibility sources but that is the only place this argument is coming from and unfortunately the only group of people who have control over the situation.
As for the constitution, i don’t think it can legally cover non us citizens defining “persons”. Persons inside the country though yes. Trump and his crackpot team I believe are arguing that because he’s no longer in the country that he doesn’t get covered by the constitution. Ridiculous I know. I suppose it’s like murdering someone and saying they don’t have rights because they are dead and only living people have rights.
The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi.
Oh. Oh no.
But, hey, I’ve been living in terror because of this perhaps or perhaps-not even real “gang”, that hardly anyone has ever heard of, and I’d bet money less than 0.01% of MAGAs would even recognize the name of. It’d all just about cruelty and pushing slowly further and further into naziesque racist control.
Wanna know the difference between Abrego Garcia and Rittenhouse?
I’ll give you a hint: One of them was afforded due process.
Here’s another thing that you might not know. Being a member of a gang is not illegal in and of itself (freedom of association). If it was, the KKK and the Proud Boys and Patriot Front and all those other chud gangs wouldn’t be allowed to exist. So it doesn’t matter one iota if Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13 or not. The only thing that matters in terms of deporting him are his legal residence status, and his criminal record. And guess what? He was here legally, having been given “withholding of removal” status by an immigration judge, and he has no criminal record.
I thought MS 13 was deemed an international terrorist org? The others you mentioned are not. If this happened retrospectively in Kilmars case then I believe it would make his deportation illegal.
So I had to look it up, and apparently Trump signed an EO on February 25th designating MS-13 as a “Foreign Terrorist Organization”, which makes no sense because it’s an American gang.
But that doesn’t matter, because on March 15th Abrego Garcia was deported without ever having been proven to be a member of MS-13. No presumption of innocence, no charges filed, no access to a lawyer, no chance to ever argue his innocence in a court of law. You know, that whole “due process” thing that we used to care about.
Regardless of what you think of this man, his rights were violated. That means your rights were also violated, because if the rights of the US Constitution don’t apply to everyone, then they don’t apply to anyone.
Isn’t it similar to what bush and obama did with sending terrorists to Guatemala?
Do you mean Guantanamo? Yeah, it’s similar, and just as repulsive and illegal. In fact, what they did set the precedent for what Trump is doing.
No due process. And no matter what the right wing hate machine is telling you, no, he’s never been in MS13. He had asylum and non deportation orders precisely because a judge wanted to protect him from MS13.
Ok thanks. This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
The entire point is to send people to death camps without due process. It’s the only reason you’re supporting it.
Quite a leap. Good luck to you I guess
Then let me break it down into tiny fash-sized chunks for you.
El Salvador is operating a death camp.
Trump is sending people there without due process, and
You’re supporting it.
Congratulations!
And yet you have added nothing to the conversation. Well done alekwithak
You’ve actually subtracted from the conversation by spreading false information that the rest of us have to go and correct.
You’ve already spouted so much blatant misinformation it’s clear you only absorb what conforms to your fucked up worldview. I’ve wasted enough time arguing with people who don’t care about facts and reality. Now I just give them silly awards and move on, and it is just as productive.
Thanks for the rebuttal
Oh, my sides. That is a great award.
He wasn’t deported, he was kidnapped and sent to a concentration camp.
That’s called a deportation though: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deportations
til deportations aren’t just sending them to a different country, and out-of-the-country camps count as deportating (not sarcasm, I seriouslly didn’t know that)
It’s a strategy to call it that
That’s because it’s bullshit to use the same term for both completely different things
US Senator apparently went there and was refused entry and everything.
Republican fanboys are calling it a political stunt.
It wouldn’t be anything if they didn’t fuck up to begin with.
It was not always republicans but it was always Government. Such an inefficient and flawed system
Salvadorian guy who is illegal gets sent back home. Stop trying to make it something it’s not.
Misunderstanding or lie. Extremely not correct either way.
you’re the one trying to make it something it’s not
Was absolutely not here illegally. He had a court order protecting him from deportation specifically to El Salvador. We actually could’ve deported him to almost anywhere else in the world and the courts would’ve been fine with it.
I think you are confused, you dont deport him to a different country. He didnt want to get deported because El Salvador is hard on criminals. Go tell El Salvador how to handle their citizens lol. We deport people back to their country of origin unless its Venezuela who wont take back their criminals.
And maybe a few homegrown American citizens too, eh?
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Don’t worry, you’ll win yours soon enough.
So you’re in favor of kidnapping american citizens and putting them in death camps.
Yeah if they play stupid games! Fuck em
I believe you may be confused. FTA:
Erez Reuveni argued the government’s case in the deportation of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, who the Trump administration has said was sent to his native El Salvador last month due to a clerical error, despite a court order that he not be deported.
Whether or not he’s a criminal (he’s not - no criminal record in US or El Salvador), there was a court order that was ignored. As for all the people we are sending to El Salvador, are you arguing they are all originally from El Salvador? That’s not at all the impression I’ve gotten from this.
Fake news
America has gone full nazi at this point,
- you have the SS, i mean ICE police
- you have Auschwitz camp in another country, I mean el Salvador
- courts have no power anymore, supreme court works for trump
- congress is in on it
- the richest guy in the world is making nazi salutes
what else is there ? They will even make a deal with russia to divide ukraine, just like stalin and hitler did with poland.
You know, back during WWII, at least we had Japanese internment camps on good ol’ American soil. Now, we’re outsourcing everything! Even our prison colonies!
Shame.
And the complete absurdity of Trump’s SCOTUS voting 9-0 for returning him home and Trump just said nah…
Not just that, his press secretary claimed that the supreme court voted in their favor! I know they lie blatantly all the time but this was surprising even for them.
Almost like he’s never had a consequence and…he’s actually right on this one. No one will do anything about it.
Aliens will come here and ask “oh so you all bow to them because they can breathe acid and are resistant to small arms fire?” and we’ll look them in their faces and say “no, they’re actually pretty average and some are shockingly unhealthy and weak. Pretty much all their power is comes directly from what we give them for money, as they aren’t even particularly clever. We just…I dunno, can’t? I guess?”
“Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other friends?”
what do you mean 'no reason in particular…"?
the reason is that he is not white enough, how is this a mystery to anyone???
The post implies that they aren’t being returned because they are dead.
Ooof, wow I totally missed that…
If he’s not dead, they will make sure he is before any press or diplomats can find him. They don’t want anyone speaking out or reporting what’s happening. They just want all the “ethnic people” to quietly disappear.
We allowed the smallest, stupidest segment of the country to have absolute power to literally start ethnic cleansing on US soil, and our “opposition party” is frowning deeply and saying “This is inappropriate!”
We’re done. There’s no fixing this. We will need a complete government overhaul and it will take decades, assuming we survive and our country doesn’t just become another ruined dictatorship, hollowed out and left to rot.
I mean, the whole reason he came here in 2011 was because MS13 was threatening him and his family. And Trump just handed him over to the largest concentration of the most violent MS13 members on the planet. It would actually be a miracle if he survived the first day, and it’s been a month.
We will need a complete government overhaul and it will take decades,
No, you’ll need fast decisive action (before the midterms at the latest, more likely within the year) to stop this madness or you’ll become another fascist dictatorship set on a course of cannibalization of both itself and anyone else it can get its hands on. Let’s not gets things mixed up here; the slow and steady option ceased to exist at least in Novembe and likely as early as August, and the result of failing isn’t a hollow rotting dictatorship. I’m from a hollow rotting dictatorship, and fascism is not that nice.
A slave labor camp? You people are literally bat shit crazy. I can agree with the fact he was wrongfully deported based on the fact that a judge gave orders for him to rightfully be here in 2019. But to say it’s a slave labor camp? You people are sick, Say that to the families that lost family members to the sick murderers and rapist that are in that jail. That jail has changed the live of many people in El Salvador and they can actually live a peaceful Life knowing they’re not going to get slaughtered for Pocket change or for walking down the wrong street or taking the wrong turn on The wrong road. Jesus if you guys plan on winning an election again it’s not gonna be with this bullshit
RANDOM INNOCENT people got sent to El Salvador! You numskull!
Here comes the name calling because you can’t have a conversation. This is what the left does all the time when they don’t know how to have a conversation they resort and name-calling. You are making it seem like every person in the jail is innocent. Even in America And all over the world there are people in Jails that shouldn’t be there. Are you only standing up for the people that should not be there? because what it looks like to me is you guys are also Standing up for the criminals that deserve to be in there
“You people are literally batshit crazy”
Literally 1 comment later:
“Here comes the name calling because you can’t have a conversation.”
I fail to see how calling others “bat shit crazy” and “sick” is not name calling, but “numbskull” is…
How about you clean up your own porch before complaining about your neighbours?
Yes that ideology that the left seems to have is literally Crazy. You guys would rather stand up for violent criminals that rape and murder then law abiding American citizens like Laken Riley Who was brutally raped and murdered by a Venezuelan that was arrested multiple times and should have not even been in the streets. President Bukele said It best to the human rights groups, “If you don’t like what We are doing take two of these little angels to your house, you can keep them” and they had nothing to say. Honestly if an immigrant needed a place to stay would you let him stay in your house? I doubt it you talk a big game but you don’t stand behind what you believe supposedly
Oops, you failed to be able to have a conversation since you began with name-calling. That’s your rule, right? My rule is “don’t talk to people who are unable to have a conversation”.
Bye.
So basically you’re calling yourself out because you don’t know how to have a conversation
You’re not gonna last long on Lemmy.
I’m not arguing with you, you are bad-faith trash. Now is not the time to argue, now is the time for the reckonning!
EDIT: And I hope you get sent to El Salvador’s death camp.
lol my dad is literally in El Salvador right now I’m El Salvadoran. If there was a legit death camp there I doubt he would be there right now. You’re literally uneducated and you believe whatever the news tells you
What is “zero idleness” but forced prison labour, and what is forced prison labour if not slavery?
Also, while I don’t disagree that it used to be worse for many El Salvadorians, that doesn’t mean one should be silent about the total lack of any process with which alleged gang members are being imprisoned there, seemingly for life. If you want to claim that’s worth it, that’s your prerogative, and as someone who’s never been to El Salvador, neither before nor after the crackdown, I don’t think I can judge it. Still, you can’t ignore the issue.
They are locked up 23 hours a day and get one hour a day to come out for exercise. So it’s definitely not a forced labor camp. And thank you for thinking rationally because you’ve never stepped foot In El Salvador before or after the crackdown and I have. I remember before people would tell you to make sure you don’t drive down certain streets or go to certain places, to not walk with your phone in your hand or headphones in. That has all changed El Salvador has always been beautiful but now it’s safe and President Bukele has made us very proud to be where we are from. Que viva El Salvador!
Then it’s a concentration camp
You are what’s wrong with Liberals and Democratic party right now. You try to compare a jail that literally has people that have been proven guilty for murders and rapes to a concentration camp Where millions of innocent Jews died, They are not the same not even remotely the same. And just so you know because clearly you have no knowledge whatsoever about prisons a lot of prisons in America are 23 and 1. So I guess in your eyes those are concentration camps too?
Concentration camps are not the same as the Holocaust, that is a category error. The us has had concentration camps, not that they were justified.
concentration camp
noun
- A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group the government has identified as suspect.
- A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.
- A camp where large numbers of persons—such as [political prisoners] [prisoners of war] [refugees]—are detained for the purpose of concentrating them in one place.
My identification of concentration camp in this regard is definitionally correct. The best type of correct.
I understand what you’re saying like the Japanese concentration camps. But Those people were innocent just like the Jews.
Also this jail houses nothing but gang members. There are no political prisoners, Prisoners of war or refugees there. For example if we get three DUIs they will not send us to this jail we would go to a different jail or if we got arrested for a white collar Like a Ponzi scheme
How would you make that determination without a trial? What evidence was there that this man that was sent is a gang member that committed a crime? Just because someone was sent to this jail does not retro-actively make them guilty. The man in question was literally a refugee, and was given asylum specifically because he was, and why the judge demanded his return. So yes he is innocent just like the Japanese and Jews. He was also sent there without a trial. he was also sent there only because his group affiliation by race and nationality that the government finds problematic. That checks more than the necessary boxes to label the prison a concentration camp.
You try to compare a jail that literally has people that have been proven guilty for murders and rapes to a concentration camp Where millions of innocent Jews died,
“Proven” you do realize most of these people were imprisoned without due process right? How are they proven to be guilty if there’s no due process? You replaced gangs you can fight with a gang you can’t fight. Enjoy.
Look if you’re talking about the 200 people that were sent there OK you got a point. But what about all the other people in there?
Okay apparently they do have a semblance of due process so that’s my mistake, but I mean look at this shit.
The order, which was initially set to last thirty days but has been extended 31 times,[40] suspended the rights of association and legal counsel, increased the amount of time that persons may be detained without being charged from three days to fifteen, and permitted the government to monitor citizens’ communications without warrants.[39] However, Salvadoran law enforcement was accused of violating even the expanded limits of their powers.[30][38] The government also restricted the ability of judges to offer prisoners alternatives to pre-trial detention, like bail and house arrest.
Members of Nuevas Ideas passed new rules that increase prison sentences for convicted gang lords to forty to forty-five years (previously six to nine) and twenty to thirty years for other members (previously three to five)[29] and reduce the age of criminal responsibility, previously sixteen years old,[41] to twelve.[42] They also passed a law that threatens anyone who reproduces or disseminates messages from gangs, including news media, with ten to fifteen years in prison.[43]
-Wikipedia.
There’s no guarantee at all that all or even most of those people are actually gang members, because the processes and legal rights that would guarantee that have been suspended for three years. You’ve been under a state of emergency for three whole years. I understand that you’re sick of gang violence, but here’s a piece of advice from someone with firsthand experience: No gang is worse than an authoritarian government. At least you can fight the gangs if push comes to shove. Wait no scratch that, an authoritarian government, with no exaggeration, a gang that also has access to a full-fledged military force.
Are you proud your President Bukele is sucking Donald Trump’s dick?
No I’m proud that he made the country safe After it being the murder capital of the world. Somethings gotta give to get to that point. It’s funny because people like you think you can fix the situation by just giving hugs and kisses to people or something unfortunately that doesn’t work life is not a Disney movie. And I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you’re probably a Nobody that has gotten nowhere in life because in life especially when you’re in high places sometimes you gotta suck a little bit of dick, you just gotta make sure you suck the right dicks
I mean, I get all that, but even if we leave out the conditions that might or might not be present in the prison, and how many of the inmates might be innocent (how would we know, without the possibility of due process), I don’t see how anyone could justify rounding up people from the US, who where in many cases in the immigration system (meaning not “illegal immigrants” in the classical sense) in the streets and sending them to a prison in a different country, with no legal representation, no contact, and no knowledge of what will happen to them long term.
It’s practically government sanctioned kidnapping.
Look I’m not talking about the 200 people that were sent there recently I’m talking About the people that were already. When you look at those guys that were already there they all have literally tattoos all over their bodies from The top of their head to their toes covered in their gang. Those are not innocent people, And please don’t try to defend those people because those people are in there for murders and rapes in extortions. Defend the families that lost loved the ones in the hands of those guys
You’re clowning yourself. It’s a death camp. You can clearly see the bodies stacked on the property. That jail is nothing but a gate to hell. No one deserves that. It’s just more corruption by the powerful.
So is it a slave camp or a death camp? You can see the body stacked on the property? Please show me send me a link or something
I don’t need to send a link. Go look it up on Google Maps. The news has covered it. Stop being a useless waste and do your own footwork. It will take seconds to see the satellite images.
If you’re pro murder. Just say it bro. And hopefully the admins ban you.
I’m El Salvadoran. If this was really happening I would have known this information way before you trust me. Again my dad is literally in the same town at the moment that this jail is in. You try to prove a point and you have nothing to show that it’s true you are literally one of the problems on the Internet and and this country you feed misinformation and then when someone asked you for a credible source you have none you are literally a fucking dork. And no I’m not pro murder but I’m pro citizen for the citizens of the country that deserve to live a peaceful life and not be brutally murdered on the street over pocket change or because you’re buying hotdogs from the wrong vendor. You know nothing of El Salvador you never spent one minute of your life there So your opinion is literally useless
I’m El Salvadoran. If this was really happening I would have known this information way before you trust me.
Sure you would have, buddy… 🙄
Hahahaha. See this is exactly what the left does when they lose the conversation when they have nothing else to say, I find it hysterical.
I just did my research also and the only thing you can see are people zooming in from Google maps saying what they think is something. None of that is credible there is no credible source. Stop trying to compare El Salvador to North Korea you scumbag
I’ve been to both and if I had to choose I’d take NK.
Now you’re just trolling. If you wanna have a conversation we can have one if you’re gonna be a moron go on Reddit. And I could bet my life you’ve never been to North Korea. And on top of that our food is better our weather is better our women are better so go have a blast in North Korea lol
I would wager you know nothing about the weather or the food in NK. Also who doesn’t like Asian women?
So why the fuck is your country putting up military checkpoints. Stopping US Senators from checking on the man?
What? There are checkpoints before you get to this prison no matter who you are. This prison is very isolated for a reason, so they purposely have these check points just incase it’s someone trying to break someone out. Also they don’t pull people over the way they do here with sirens behind you. They have checkpoint type of stops or what we would call blitz (they do it here around the holidays sometimes). Seriously do some research, read a little bit before you come to a conclusion. Crazy that this will get downvoted for just explaining to you how people get stopped by police there.
Also the senator from Maryland got to see him and talk to him yesterday.
We have moved from being ruled by the laws of the government
To the whims of the government
Laws now are just … Suggestions.
We very certainly have moved to a new era of disregard for the law, but in service of understanding how we got here and where the system built power in hopes of breaking it, laws have always been suggestions. The 13th goes into this well, at every step when given leniency the judicial system has been abused to enact more violence and control over people of color. The enforcers are held to minimal standards, and seldom held accountable when they somehow fail to clear the bar in hell.
We need to be honest with ourselves about what this country was and how long it’s been unjust.
I like how this still implies that it’s only wrong because he had a legal situation.
After all illegal immigrants are not really human, right?
That’s not what their phrasing insinuates and I can see your cloaca from all the contortions you had to do to arrive at that conclusion.
Why say legally if it changes nothing, then?
Because a major point of ‘reason’ that the right-wing has with this person’s abduction is that he was ‘here illegally so it doesn’t matter what happens to him’.
This messaging isn’t for you. Its mostly meant to shortcircuit the above.
These little shitty ‘gotcha’ purity tests the left constantly foists upon itself is tiring and the stuff of children. The man the US government abducted is likely dead; murdered by despicable people willing to do unspeakable things to meet their ends. Yet you sit here griping about, what? The way one person, trying to shout back in solidarity against the coming horror, said something slightly askew? I’d think it pathetic if it weren’t so exhausting.
The person in the picture likely didn’t intend it, but qualifying such a statement with “legally” does have the effect of legitimizing the fascism position both in general and regarding illegal immigrants.
The term is illegal ALIENS. Makes it extra racist.
The word comes from the Latin alius meaning other
Apologetic much? Dehuminization is dehuminization in my books.
Lol, I made no judgement about the use of the word, merely giving the etymology. I’m sorry you misinterpreted me as defending xenophobia.
From the Greek xeno meaning strange.
Maybe read the room a little before posting. My sarcasm, in this case, is very warranted, but you “correcting” me with an etymology lesson really makes you look apologetic. Why would you post something so irrelevant to the conversation?
I thought it implied that he couldn’t be returned because he died.
But the wording implies that the legality of this person’s situation matters for the rest of the sentence, either meaning that being illegal would justify deportation, or not being able to come back after being arrested without reason.
The wording is establishing who the subject of the post is about. Since their name wasn’t mentioned and you knew who they were talking about I can see that it was super effective.
I don’t know who they are talking about, I don’t need to.
And mentioning “legal” doesn’t bring anything to the point of the post, it’s just a side effect of the person’s opinions
I don’t know who they are talking about, I don’t need to.
You are very confident you know what they meant for a person that is claiming ignorance of the topic. Bold strategy, hope that pays off for you.
Welcome to America; the first successful Nazi regime.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States
“As we all know, deporting someone without consent is only an issue because he was allowed here legally. Everyone else? Fuck if I care.”
Slave labor?
They are kept in pens for 23.5 hours a day. I don’t think they’re getting any labor out of them. It’s a death camp.
Apparently the dictator is incapable of dictating.
So there’s only two reasons they didn’t just get this guy back one he’s dead or two they are doing it to prove they have total power
prove?
is there any mechanisms at all, in the US, to stop and/or remove Trump?
he was already impeached in his last term and nothing happened
There are, but they’re all hopelessly compromised.
