In an unexpected mask off “secure” email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton’s services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let’s collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇
Always try to provide:
-Server location (jurisdiction)
-Governance
-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency
-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)
-Pricing and links
If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.
#ProtonExodus
Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116
Edit:typo
Sigh.
Goddammit. I’m so fucking tired.
This is how they win.
Like zombies, slow and steady, dumb and hungry
Perfect
Be tired with Tuta!
Am I the only that don’t see this the same way as the rest? I am in way way endorsing or supporting MAGA, but they did take action against big tech (though for reasons of retribution) and I see Proton only acknowledging a good person being designated to lead the next antitrust efforts, apparently with a good track record.
Proton also acknowledges Lina Kahn who has done a great job, nominated under Joe Biden.
Ultimately, I feel like from a perspective of Proton, any win against Big Tech, is a good win, and I can’t disagree.
There is a longer discussion to be had around how the dems were supported by oligarchs and I think that’s what Proton is referring to, they decided to turn a blind eye under the Obama administration for instance. Bernie Sanders goes to lengths about this in this interview, illuminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzkgWDCucNY
So all in all, maga sucks, new pick probably good, and in my view, proton not actually endorsing maga/trump but just acknowledging a good pick.
Did I miss something?
The main part of the message that pissed me off was the idea that GOP sides with the “little guy”. First, it’s demonstrably false. Second, he is a tech CEO. He wouldn’t recognise a little guy before his security crew has time to forcibly remove him.
Yes I fully agree with you.
Does that claim alone warrant the absolute backlash though? I personally feel like no.
yes, that’s a sane approach
Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.
I thought they were talking about the elementary particle—I was afraid we’d have to find some other way of manifesting our physical existence.
If that proton goes nazi, I am going straight to the farm
Truly unhinged that they decided to come out on this. Fellas, you are fucking Swiss why throw yourself under the bus for the US election
Because terrible people literally can’t help themselves. Wait for people to show you who they truly are, they will…
Wow!
Of all companies, this is one I didn’t expect.
Damn.
the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital
What’s insane is that didn’t Proton just recently announce they were converting to a non-profit?
Yes, they did: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation
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There is absolutely no way to verify any of Proton’s privacy claims. Why should I trust one for profit company over another?
Why would this be unexpected?
Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.
https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation
Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I’m setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.
Proton has been shady for years.
“Proton? Why the fuck would he be mad at a WINE fork…?”
“… OH THE MAIL-”Mullvad is supposed to be a safe and secure VPN.
Unfortunately not a mail or storage provider.
If this wasn’t enough of a wakeupcall to not put all the eggs in one basket then what is? Companies are literally doing this to lock you into their service so it’s harder to switch since you then have to find X new services instead of just one.
Better go with one that’d specialized for each service you need…
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You could look at infomaniak, but I didn’t have the best experience trying out (or even getting started with) their services. Finding a provider that has all of Proton’s apps is going to be tough (or at least it was from me while I was looking to escape from Tuta). Good luck, tho.
EDIT: Infomaniak is on F-Droid!
EDIT EDIT: Infomaniak is only available in Europe! Infomaniak is only available with a European phone number, so using a VPN won’t help! 🙁👎
Finding a provider that has all of Proton’s apps is going to be toug
Nobody should be using any provider as one stop shop… That’s how we got cooked by Google and Apple the first time folks.
Unbundle, mix and match…
Yeah it auck Proton did this but if you only got one proton service, it is eaiser to either do nothing or switch it.
I agree! I don’t use Proton’s VPN or their password manager for that reason. The equivalents I had in place already were fine and I didn’t feel the need to switch over everything, just some things.
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There are 2 kinds of companies:
- Evil companies
- Companies that are not evil YET.
What this means in this case is that only your own E-Mail server running on a Raspi in your own home can be considered private or secure in the long run. Unfortunately this is really really hard to do, which is the only reason i have not done it yet.
Personally i do not consider any E-Mail private, because E-Mail is not E2E-encrypted, and 99.9% of times one side of the conversation is going to be hosted on some shady companies servers.Of course Proton delivers a great service, because they make an insecure protocol a little less insecure, and i personally use Proton mail. Unfortunately their closed-source nature makes it impossible to switch providers without abandoning their great software.
As for services like Drive, they can actually be hosted privately and securely on your own Raspi with stuff like NextCloud/OwnCloud.
For those that can’t/don’t want to self-host, i would recommend paying for a hoster that hosts FOSS software and contributes to it either with money or code. In that case you would probably loose E2E-encryption, but gain the ability to switch providers once your provider turns on you. In that case at least some of your money would continue to offer value to you by having improved the software you are still using.There’s also non profits…
Like OpenAI!
I mean, sure, they definitely aren’t profitable at least
I’ll still continue using proton, as I haven’t seen them staying from their goal just yet, but I’d love to see some alternatives non the less.
The CEO “apologized” this morning (after being duly chastised, I’m sure):
Hi all, last night, a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit. I want to share a few thoughts on this to provide clarity to the community on what is Proton’s policy on politics going forward.
First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn’t serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.
Second, officially Proton must always be politically neutral, and while we may share facts and analysis, our policy going forward will be to share no opinions of a political nature. The line between facts, analysis, and opinions can be blurry at times, but we will seek to better clarify this over time through your feedback and input.
The exception to these rules is on the topics of privacy, security, and freedom. These are necessarily political topics, where influencing public policy to defend these values, often requires engaging politically.
The operations of Proton have always reflected our neutrality. For example, recently we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups, not because we necessarily agreed with their views, but because we believe more strongly in their right to have their own views.
It is also a legal guarantee under Swiss law, which explicitly prohibits us from assisting foreign governments or agencies, and allows us no discretion to show favoritism as Swiss law and Swiss courts have the final say.
The promise we make is that no matter your politics, you will always be welcome at Proton (subject of course to adherence to our terms and conditions). When it comes to defending your right to privacy, Proton will show no favoritism or bias, and will unconditionally defend it irrespective of the opinions you may hold.
This is because both Proton as a company, and Proton as a community, is highly diverse, with people that hold a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It’s important that we not lose sight of nuance. Agreeing/disagreeing with somebody on one point, rarely means you agree/disagree with them on every other point.
I would like to believe that as a community there is more that unites us than divides us, and that privacy and freedom are universal values that we can all agree upon. This continues to be the mission of the non-profit Proton Foundation, and we will strive to carry it out as neutrally as possible.
Going forward, I will be posting via u/andy1011000. Thank you for your feedback and inputs so far, and we look forward to continuing the conversation.
Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/
Am I being paranoid when I notice that the binary at the end of his username translates to 88?
Am I being paranoid when I notice that the binary at the end of his username translates to 88?
Well, there’s a good possibility that he might have been born in 1988. If not, then that doesn’t look very good.
Personally, I think he’d be an extremely unusual neo-nazi, given his background. So perhaps a bit of Occam’s Razor should be applied here.
In the comments of the post, he says that 88 is the year he was born.
He was born in 1988. Quick, get the pitchforks.
Ref: inc.com article says he was 33 at time of publishing the article in 2021.
Someone in the comments there make a good point:
It is so disingenuous to say “last year” when it was a little more than a month ago.
His excuse that the social media team posted it from the official account instead of his account is farcical. This whole thing is too bad a taste in my mouth.
To say “I made an apolitical statement last year” when we can verify that the statement was both political and within 30 days is bizarre. He thinks we’re idiots, to boot.
Wow, such a generic nonpology.
Oh, I’m so, so sorry I was caught red-handed. I apologize for anything you guys blame me for, please keep using your product.
No, 88 is not a bad number. “88” is pronounced like “發發” in Taiwanese, which means ‘making fortune’. And you might also see Taiwanese people using “168” in their usernames, as it has similar meaning.
88 is typically used either on its own, or in full as 1488 by neo nazis and fascists. It’s a dog whistle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
On its own, it can be used accidentally, such as if you have 88 in your username because you were born in '88, but if paired with other behavioral patterns it can become damning.
Sure, it could be. I wasn’t defending him.
Just please don’t think most of us using “88” or “888” for hinting Nazis, and “666” for praying Satan.Well, like anything, it depends on context. In this context, it’s not crazy to be on high alert for weird politicized signals.
However, I think you made a pretty good point about its meaning in Taiwan given that this fellow is apparently from there, combined with it being his year of birth. So, context decides and in this case at least it seems pretty ordinary.
For sure. Context absolutely matters, ans the context here doesn’t establish a pattern from my understanding. So in this case it’s unlikely to be a dog whistle.
But people should still be aware of what the 88/1448 dog whistle looks like.
I still think about that person who got banned from league for their name being Corona1488 and their last name was Corona and they were born on Jan 4th, 1988. I’m surprised they went so long without learning the connotations.
This is cool info. I also wonder, looking at his picture, if he was born in 1988. No idea, but hey.
First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement
Not intended to be a political statement? Even setting aside agreement vs disagreement, how is this (below) not a political statement?
10 years ago Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned.
Again, regardless of whether you agree or disagree it’s like a textbook example of a political statement.
It doesn’t mention or women or other minorities, so it’s barely political.
Not defending the 88, he could be a racist, but he’s apparently from Taiwan. It is a common number in Chinese culture, guessing Taiwan too. Where I live there have been a couple of businesses with “88” in the name and both were Chinese.
I just got settled for fuck’s sake
I just requested a refund yesterday. I upped 20 days ago.
- Germany (I think)
- Politically leftist
- Very nice people
- User experience 8, works fine and people put a lot of effort in
- It’s free, but you need an invite code
Remember when businesses stayed the fuck out of politics so they didn’t alienate their customers because they like money? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Taking a neutral stance is also political;<br> Also when people say that “they don’t like politics in X,Y&Z” they mean politics that they don’t agree with
OK I think I will move to Posteo. Great security, privacy focussed, servers in Germany, running with 100% renewable energy. Prices are ok, too. Ticks all boxes.
I’ve said it in another thread: German users should consider posteo as a green, safe, and affordable (1€/M) alternative. https://posteo.de/de
