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- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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For now it’s a lot of mights and very few dids. Just make companies that are that huge to pay higher taxes to operate in the EU. It’s not a tariff is contributing their fair share to the social network of the EU. And ffs, reign in any country allowing these companies to operate in tax havens in the EU
Should be two pronged - tariffs on cloud and other services while fostering competitive local alternatives. While it’s possible knock up a cloud out of anything there is nothing in Europe as coherent as the offerings by Amazon, Google or Microsoft. And there should be.
hell, it’s about time
!lemmysilver
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This in combination with deregulating the single market and allowing EU tech startup to thrive would finally give birth to real competitors on our content.
GoEU
deregulating
Nope. Nope-nopety-nope, leave this american bullshit where it belongs.
!lemmysilver
Pardon my ignorance but what does deregulating the single Market mean?
There is a big push from EU at the moment to reduce “red tape” to make it easier for business, see for example mastodon post from EC a few hours ago: https://ec.social-network.europa.eu/@EUCommission/114280068967975617
Yeah and make it 200%
Maybe fix the Irish tax loophole first?
Exactly. Never do anything until you can do anything all at once. If you can’t wave a magic wand and solve all problems everywhere, it’s best to just keep the status quo.
Or, you know, do two things at once. It’s not uneard of for a huge governmental entity to be able to do that. And it’s stupid to repaint the ceiling when you have a leaky roof.
Exquisitely sardonic sir, well done. And yeah, deserved response to that tired kind of whataboutism.
A slap on the wrist for two of the tech giants is great progress. I would consider this a start, but not done yet.
The linked article supports this as well:
Tove Maria Ryding from the European Network on Debt and Development, an association of trade unions and non-governmental organisations, welcomed the ECJ’s decision but stressed “our tax problem is more than just one rotten apple”.
She said the case addressed tax matters dating back over 20 years and was “a perfect illustration of the chaotic corporate tax system we have”.
“What we urgently need is a fundamental reform that can give us a tax system that is fair, effective, transparent and predictable," she said.
Break up Ticketmaster!
Yes PLEASE
Don’t use tariffs. Legalize jailbreaking and adversarial interop instead. Disregard American DRM.
And legalize piracy of US-created media content such as movies and TV series.
There’s also patent invalidation on pharmaceuticals
The real money is in AWS, azure,GCP. No one cares about your iPad. Tariff the big 3 hosting providers and see how quickly shit hits the fan.
Bonus: It might make some companies move to non-US hosters, making their data way safer.
I’ve switched to Hetzner and I’m super happy. Fuck DigitalOcean and their ever increasing prices.
Put a tariff on the companies that was pro-Trump, and who was at his inauguration.
Would probably end the Internet faster than China can cut intercontinental cables. I’m here for it but the fallout would be positively insane.
Of course it would not.
There are plenty of providers, this is a little reactionary. I’ve worked with a local data center for hosting in every state I’ve lived in.
It’s not about the providers, it’s about the move. Companies will need to migrate their infrastructure to another platform which (let’s be honest) likely will not have the bandwidth / rack space / hardware to support the influx of users. Companies will self host? Okay sure: time to spin up internal clusters, train employees, provision additional bandwidth / connections. And naturally - this will all go off without a hitch. Like flipping a switch.
And we need to remember that many of these services rely on each other so one goes down: they take each other out.
That entirely depends on who deeply they’ve locked themselves into a single-vendor set of services. If they used an abstraction tool to hide vendor-specific implementation detail, and were moderately smart, it’d take little besides minor config changes, redeployment and some regression testing.
Source: I’ve done it.
inertia is a thing, but just by having new EU projects avoid the big three you’d already have done a world of good to the IT ecosystem.
This is why you give notice; this isn’t an overnight thing. If anything, this would help strengthen and decentralize hosting platforms while giving a huge amount of business to companies to help them migrate. I think the real shake is going to be those locked into provide IP like Redshift or Fargate.
Notice or not any infrastructure change is brutal - even if you go like for like.
I’m not saying I’m against the idea: I loathe all the centralization and robber barons running around in this era. But switches like these rarely go as planned. If haste is required even less so.
Oh I get it. We made the jump from Google Cloud to AWS, and I’m sure there are companies that are even more vendor locked. But a good example of what people can do when they don’t have a choice is the new PCI 4.0 roll out that has cost companies millions they wouldn’t spend unless made to do so. Will it be a mountain to climb and cost a ton, yeah, but change in the right direction isn’t always easy.
I’m with you, it will be hard, and they need a good system for extensions and the like, with a reasonable time line. But this is good change IMO, even if it’s painful.
I’d double my mortgage just to see microsoft365 crumble.
But you love teams right?! (get the gas can - I’ll get the matches)
I love to wish it on my worst enemies.
Or they’ll just pay the extra money and avoid all that.
That is pretty much how the VMware situation shook out.
Yeah, we’ve got on-prem cloud hosting at a university, and moving away from VMware is an ongoing process. Still. Two, three years after the writing was on the wall. They’d rather pay the Danegeld.
From the ashes maybe a better internet will emerge then. The current one is very dogshit and only going worse.
Where do I sign up for newgrounds 2.0?
You know jailbreaking isn’t illegal right? It’s the same is removing one of those void if removed stickers, you won’t get tech support anymore but who cares about Apple tech support?
It’s not illegal but manufacturers are making it harder to impossible. That must be illegal.
Isn’t it sometimes? Like if involved breaking something encrypted, I thought it was. And possibly other cases as well. At least in the US thanks to the DMCA and others.
Those stickers have no legal weight anyway, at least in the United States. The manufacturer has to prove that you damaged the device, whether the sticker is there or not. They can not refuse service just because a sticker is missing.
Yeah, let’s have a go with the ACI (anti-coercion instrument) and see if we can’t make their patents free game. Playing to Trump’s tune is unlikely to work out well
Don’t just legalise jailbreak (which was never illegal anyway 😂), but force device manufacturers to unlock root as soon as they end support for the device.
Then they will offer shit support to avoid doing so. Simpler and safer to just make unlocking legit from the start.
Why not force them to unlock root from the start?
Yes, of course, but I think, like I wrote it, it is more likely to happen in reality 😁 but of course, I would prefer from the start as well
Like just hide it in developer settings which as well are hidden. No noob should accidentally go there, but a malicious being may lead a noob there…
Because people are stupid, will fuck up their device/s, and then complain to the manufacturer about how their device was ruined.
It’s an incredibly stupid argument, but it’s their argument nonetheless. Something something “for your safety/protection/security/etc”…i.e. “Trust us”.
I think root privileges should be available as well, but in a way that 1) only someone who knows what the fuck they’re doing can access, and 2) can be done entirely locally, without calling to a server controlled by the manufacturer.
Rooting a device shouldn’t be any more complicated than having a sticker saying “warranty void if removed”.
I don’t disagree, however, there needs to be some form of security so the average Joe (or their kid) doesn’t accidentally press the wrong button and
rm -rfthe entire device (exaggerating of course, but you get the idea).my apologies, I was actually thinking of “unlocking the bootloader”, rooting a device without an unlocked bootloader didn’t even occur to me. And since unlocking a bootloader is non-trivial by design, that would prevent any such accidents.
Absolutely anyone can follow a guide to root a phone, I am an idiot and I have done it. The manufacturer should not be liable for me using the phone in a manner not intended and then breaking it, but they should absolutely have to make it available to do. It should only require signing away liability in a tick box.
Exactly, and this also ties into my first point that the people who know, know what to look for.
I’ve rooted/jailbroken every single phone and tablet I’ve owned over the last 15 years. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I cannot stand the artificial “security” blocks out in place simply because a company thinks rooted users are somehow cheating or committing fraud or what have you - the people who do that are gonna do it no matter what.
How about not letting Google have exclusive rights to the drivers for all the phone hardware? I would like to be able to install Linux on any phone I buy. I don’t want Google monopolizing phone operating systems. #FOSS #Linux #FuckGoogle #Monopoly #deGoogle
How about not letting Google have exclusive rights to the drivers for all the phone hardware?
What exactly do you mean by that? Google is one of the few companies that let you easily unlock their phones so you can do whatever you want with them.
Unlock so you can use whatever phone service provider you want but Google controls the Android operating system. If you don’t want Android on your phone and would rather use Linux or another FOSS operating system, it’s very difficult, because Google doesn’t give up control of the drivers for a lot of phones. If you just want to remove Google apps from a phone that comes with Android, you have to jailbreak it which voids the warranty and jailbreaking can’t be done to every phone.
No, unlock as in: You can install whatever operating system you want. No need for “jailbreaking” on Google phones. They officially support unlocking the bootloader (and re-locking it later as well!). There are many things not to like about Google, but how they handle their phones when it comes to openness is certainly not one of them. Pretty much all other phone vendors are much worse than that (except for maybe a few small ones like Fairphone).
You are talking about phones made by Google. I am talking about ALL the phones using Android and how difficult or sometimes impossible it is to use anything but Android. I am talking about (oranges) a monopoly on phone operating systems. And you are saying what great (apples) phones Google produces.
You are talking about phones made by Google. I am talking about ALL the phones using Android and how difficult or sometimes impossible it is to use anything but Android.
That’s not what you were saying. You were explicitly talking about Google. Also, implying it is Google’s fault that other manufacturers don’t let you install other operating systems easily is pretty bizarre. If you want to complain about that, at least complain about the right companies. Those are usually the phone manufacturers and/or the SoC manufacturers. The SoC manufacturers often times are particularily problematic, since they often do not publish open source drivers at all or in a very limited fashion.
Agree 100%
Okay, Orangeman! Now it’s getting personal…
How would this affect the big players? Like MS -you buy from the European branch and they use buy from US. So hitting them with tariffs would hurt MS more than their customers?
I understand they will raise prices, but its not like with physical goods where the same item is resold. They use other ways to transfer money because tax
The purpose of tariffs (in a normal world) is to make it harder for domestic entities to buy international goods. Typically, this will spur growth of a particular sector of industry within a country over time.
The way Trump is using them as a battering ram in an attempt to punish other countries, rather than incentivize steady growth, is why the US market is tanking and likely headed to another recession (or worse).
By retaliating in kind, the EU will be incentivizing their citizens and companies not to buy from the US. This will hurt companies that are based in the US, like Google, Microsoft, Meta, etc., further sending the US economy into freefall and bolstering the European economy, since they aren’t trying to punish every single trade partner in existence.
There may be other ways they try to move money around to avoid the tariffs, but governments are aware of how big businesses operate and often try to close those kinds of loopholes. Since this has become a global political issue, I would imagine they’ll be keeping a more watchful eye than normal on things.
It becomes very hard to tariff intangible services like those provided by tech, or financial securities.
If the datacenter is in the EU and that EU data center is servicing EU does it get tariffed? I think they should just do shit like requiring certain infrastructure and job investments in the EU or pay higher tax rates on revenue.
Current US tax policy, GILTI and FDII already kinda incentivize offshoring for multinational companies based in the US. Companies that deal largely in intangible good are already outsourcing jobs. EU forcing them to speed up this process puts both Trump and the multinational companies in a double bind.
Neither can really make a move in their best interest without pissing the other off.
All it takes is a critical mass of users to make their own Facebook. A continental divide seems like a good place.
When America sends their users, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending trolls, shitposters, influencers. They’re bringing Ben Shapiro and Alex Jones. And some, I assume, are good users.
Edit: The original quote (about Mexicans) is from 2015. Feel old yet?
Newspapers, magazines, TV, film, movies, broadcasts are all regulated nationally and internationally
The same should be done for corporate social media companies who basically deliver all or most news content and information to people everywhere today.
The current state of the world is like being in the 1900s and only having six major newspapers in the world owned by big corporations and none of the content they publish or share is regulated or controlled.
Why not legalising piracy for media made in the US? Imagine if all movies and TV series were suddenly public domain in Europe…
Sounds like a good idea, hit them where it hurts! I left Big Tech a while ago, but if the EU can hit them with tariffs and hurt people like Zuck and (F)Elon, awesome!
