You must log in or register to comment.
What values are you talking about? You must have limited them to something like you shouldn’t eat cockroaches.
The problem is they have all been extremely successful at demonizing the alternatives. People are hesitant to even think about left ideas because they have been told their entire lives that they are evil.
Most Democrats don’t realize that capitalism relies on actual slavery… presently. They don’t know that the products they consume or use revolve around supply chains that even include child slavery. They don’t know the actual effects of US imperialism and third-world exploitation. They don’t know that an estimated 40% of US agricultural workers are undocumented immigrants — modern slaves, with no human rights. I’m not being hyperbolic at all, but I suggest everybody do their own research.
Democrats are propagandized to not want to come to terms with the fact that even first-world workers are slaves. They may not be “owned”, but damn near — everybody is getting a raw deal under capitalism besides those that extract the vast majority of value, wealth, power, influence, and control.
Democrats are subjected to intense campaigns that include gaslighting, propaganda, and coercion, while critical facts and the actual reality is veiled to them.
Even US military policy and the reserve currency is designed to exploit emerging markets. The reason the US can print so much money every year to fund all its programs is because other countries are required to trade in USD so will buy it even though its being inflated so much, and if they decide to trade in something like gold dinars they get overthrown.
Who the fuck cares? Biden isn’t in office anymore. Judge by what he accomplished instead of pretending you all know him personally.
Right now we have a literal fascist in office. Something tells me that’s a bigger issue. We can play the blame game all day, but unfortunately what’s done is done and the time to take action is yesterday.
Judge by what he accomplished
Getting said literal fascist elected by doing fuck all to solve the problems he said he would, gave said fascist a pass by assigning a mealy mouthed investigator, and hanging out in the race long enough to help depress turnout?
We can play the blame game all day, but unfortunately what’s done is done and the time to take action is yesterday.
We also need to understand why we got to this place, and saying “who the fuck cares” just emboldens the Dems in power to keep trying the same shit that doesn’t work.
We also need to understand why we got to this place, and saying “who the fuck cares” just emboldens the Dems in power to keep trying the same shit that doesn’t work.
We already know how we got here, which is why it doesn’t help anything to bitch and moan about how “both sides suck”.
Quit your bitching and infighting and blaming everyone else, and focus on what we can do now.
How does it solve anything beyond the shortest of terms to keep seeing salvation in a party thats been creeping right in line with the Fascists for half a century?
What will your opinion be in another 5-8 years when the Democrats have followed the Overton window into calling for extralegal deportations of naturalized citizens and Republicans are just calling for the whites to shoot the non-whites in the street with impunity?
“Better support the Democrats, they only want to deport those people to foreign prisons not execute them on the sidewalk! Get that both sides crap out of here!”
-You in 5 years, probably.
We can co-create a new system as this one falls apart.
We already know how we got here, which is why it doesn’t help anything to bitch and moan about how “both sides suck”.
Clearly, given how the power structure is doing things differently, right?
Quit your bitching and infighting and blaming everyone else, and focus on what we can do now.
Yeah, try to get the establishment to understand a lesson on what failed and have them finally back policies that will encourage people to show up so I don’t have to spend 6 months begging people to vote for them because they fucked the dog yet again?
The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.”
Hillary Clinton, the DNC, and mainstream media also played a pretty big role in Trump’s rise to power back in 2016.
Yep, I’ve bitched about that for the better part of the intervening 8 years. Still not sure if the establishment learned the right lesson from 2016.
Most people aren’t even aware. I’ll keep pushing that fact even if it angers people.
We all loosely share responsibility for Trump rising to power and maintaining said power, and the best way to remove his power is to pull the wool away from everybody’s eyes.
The Democrats do not represent the people or workers and they will not fight for anybody besides capital. No matter how progressive they brand themselves in the future or how much they claim to want to fight oligarchy. They have zero plan or power — they are not serious actors and my assessment of them has nothing to do with purity testing.
Well, they’re the only other game in town unless you want to sit back and let the fascists take power because people stayed home like they did this year, our hands are pretty much tied come election day. And that is a fact I will keep repeating as long as people refuse to understand that our country is run via electoral politics and no amount of sitting out will change that.
I’m all for getting better candidates on the ballot, but when the only alternative is naked fascism, telling people to stay home or not vote for them is a great way of shooting your pet causes in the foot.
Well clearly we are already almost at a breaking point just 112 days after the start of his presidency. He is ignoring due process and established rights, he is foregoing his oath to uphold the constitution, and everybody in the administration is openly breaking laws left and right. The administration is also arguably in criminal contempt of court.
Personally, I don’t think we’ll even make it 2 years into the presidency before protests of a massive scale or a collapse.
1/3 of the country doesn’t vote in the presidential election, 2/3 are propagandized or coerced into voting for the duopoly. There are many, many people who voted for Trump that likely don’t approve of him now. There are many, many people who voted for Kamala who likely didn’t actually endorse her.
If a revolution or similar event is going to happen, it’s during this presidency. Otherwise there will be no facade of democracy left to participate in when the next election is supposed to come around. The Democrats aren’t going to save us, the answer isn’t to sit back — it’s to create a new system.
But the problem is that this is the exact problem that led to the fascist taking office. The most historically unpopular president plagued by every possible crime and scandal, and the democrats run a Republican. That is why they keep losing. They keep people even remotely left of Republican, like Bernie and AOC, at arms length (at best) from the party, while propping up Joe Biden and Nancy pelosi (almost literally). And then they keep saying “this is the most progressive ticket in history!”
They’re selling out any possible goodwill hey had. Which was very little, if any. And then they turn around and point the finger at us. All while capitalizing on the fascists taking office and capitulating to their agenda, while the talking heads go on to and say “the problem is the party got ‘too woke’ and forgot about the everyday Americans!”
They have clearly failed at this since running a fake progressive in Obama, who also proved everything by running a legitimately progressive campaign in 08 and won by historic numbers. I’m not going to say it was the money behind the party that made them stop even pretending they give a shit…but it was (most likely). They are not a legitimate opposition party. And when the choices are between one of two, well that’s a massive fucking problem. And they’re not addressing it.
So, yes. There is a fascist in office. But if this foundational problem doesn’t get solved and the dems keep moving right (while the OW concept of “right” has shifted so far away from center), then the fascists will continue to radicalize, pulling the entire Democratic Party rightward with it.
That is a problem that needs to get solved before we can get a fascist out of power. Unless we’re talking…like, gonzo style.
We just need an entirely new system.
The Democrats will never be truly progressive and they will always tease at being socialist. They don’t even address major crises, like the housing crisis, the health care crisis, or the economy — they sit there and gaslight us while playing the blame game to excuse their inaction.
We need progress towards solutions, and they can’t even address the issues. How can they work towards solutions if they can’t come up with any?
The Progressives and Democratic Socialists who once voted Democrats (or who voted Democrat anyway) probably care a lot that they are disenfranchised by Democrats.
Pointing out facts is not the same as playing a blame game. Kamala ran on a conservative platform and lost, it’s a fact.
Bothsiders are annoying. They’re the same people who see the terrible crap Trump has done, and are like “but what about [tiny thing]! He’s not all that bad”
I don’t think any both siders are around right now in America that aren’t right wing.
In saying that, this post and your comment are examples of the left today being excessively socially authoritarian which labels anyone who doesn’t completely conform the enemy.
Both political parties in America represent capital instead of people.
I align with Libertarian Socialism, a left ideology. This is also a leftist/anarchist instance and community. We aren’t Republicans in disguise.
One would have to have some serious bad faith or cognitive dissonance to be able to argue that both sides are the same as a person who firmly aligns with right-wing, capitalist ideology. Republicans thrive on promoting their differences in contrast to Democrats.
Left = Socialism, Right = Capitalism.
If you look at the Political Compass you will see that there are also authoritarians and libertarians (not the right-wing, capitalist ideology) on the Y axis.
Left authoritarians or left libertarians both are well educated on what the left represents. They are able to see the stark contrast between capitalistic parties and socialism.
Democrats are not left-wing or leftist, they most certainly aren’t socialist. They only tease at being socialist.
“bothsides” is by the majority of people in reference to the two political parties (in reference to america), not left wing and right wing in a political ideological sense. As you said both political parties operate within a system of opperssion fighting for control of power. Neither side is good, but one could say that one side is definitley more damaghing than the other in a realist sense.
i think though from my experience, today the left, specifically, moderern progressisvism has become far too socially authoritarian, as an arnarchist type i cant abide by any authoritarianism and the left is no stranger to it.
Here’s the point I withheld: neither capitalist party is preferrable and capitalism is destroying the planet.
Democrats are not able to fight extreme authoritarianism, fascism, and oligarchy. They have no power or political gravitas. They can’t even take a stand for universal health care…
Value judgements of which side is better are irrelevant: the capitalist US economy relies on various forms of slavery (even child slavery) and third-world exploitation. An estimated 40% of US agricultural workers are undocumented immigrants.
Modern slavery must be abolished. Neither party is calling for the end of slavery, let alone addressing it — it’s a carefully veiled reality.
Also anarchism is the opposite of authoritarianism. It’s a left libertarian ideology. Just saying.
The authoritarian socialist ideology is usually referred to as state communism, such as Marxism-Leninism. You can be a Marxist without being authoritarian. You can be a communist without being authoritarian.
I agree that neither party is preferable in the sense that the democrats should be praised or idealised and i definitely agree that the democrats and in my opinion “modern progressives” have no ability to combat facism. As they are both the product of eating with a silver spoon for too long and both dont want to change the system of power, they just want to seize control of it and weild for themselves.
The left today is just too scattered to compete with facism. Either you’re a social authoritarain who seeks power but cannot take any tangile steps like facism or you are leftist like many people on this plastform and get stuck in semanticallyu intel;ectualising bygon theories and hyper spefici idealogical labels
I am focused on solutions, not ideology. I do my best to not flaunt the label that most accurately aligns with my ideals (unless relevant) and my ideas generally resonate with Democrats and even some Republicans. People want change and people want progress, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.
Everybody, regardless of ideology, should be able to focus on solutions and the change we’d like to see — on what kind of world we want to live in. I want to live in a free and kind world, without slavery. The vast majority of people likely feel similarly.
Even the authoritarian socialists you disagree with tend to resonate with that. They want forcefully to centralize power, resources, and control so eventually a more gentle world is born and the state is shed. They think force is necessary, I’m confident we can convince them otherwise.
Maybe it’s naive, but I can see a world that unifies under the banner of change and common sense solutions — a world that is able to cut past the propaganda and polarization and moves forward.
Yeah sorry i didnt intent for any of that to come accross like it was targetted at you.
To clarify i dont mean authoritarian socialists - i mean modern progressives who focus on social issues (not socialism) being overtly authoritarian within the realm of social dynamics in society.
I do think you are naive, but i think its a comendable mindset and just because i think you are naive does not mean anything other than that i dont share the same faith in people as you do. Maybe im too nihilitistic.
Trump is a far-right fascist authoritarian, not the typical Republican we are used to.
They are pointing out validly that the Democratic party moved to the right to where centrists and old-school conservatives once sat.
And you’re allowed to disagree or see things differently.
They are the same as early-2000s Republicans.
They are not the same as 2025 Republicans, who are literally thieving, murderous Mussolini-emulating fascists.
To be fair, still Republicans… just two decades apart.
Their complacency makes me feel like they’re just making people feel like they have a choice
I’ll admit Trump is a lot clumsier about saying it out loud, but 2000s Republicans were absolutely on the same wave. Being virulently anti-anyone-dark-than-an-italitan, actively eroding free speech, and hating anyone who worked for a living has been standard conservative shit since at least the 1800s. If anything, the 2000s Republicans had more of a war-boner to boot. Trump did in fact bring the facism home a fair bit more openly, but let’s not mistake a new hairdo for a new political movement.
The early 2000s Republicans are the same people as 2025 Republicans.
Some of them changed their beliefs. They moved right - or were moved right by an incredibly effective decades-long propaganda campaign.
And some of them didn’t change their beliefs at all - they’re simply more emboldened to express beliefs that weren’t acceptable twenty years ago.
Give it twenty more years and Democrats will be where Republicans are now.
The current Democratic party is basically the Reagan Republicans with more emphasis on civil rights.
US politics have skewed further and further rightward for the last 50 years. On a global scale, Democrats are firmly center-right.
Bernie Sanders and AOC are barely left of center for the rest of the world, but in US politics they’re “off the deep end.”
They are not all the same. Notably absent are John McCain, and Mitt Romney. Even Mitch McConnell is kind of gone, with at least one foot out the door and much reduced influence. Meanwhile, thereva lot of newcomers that were brought in by the tee party and Trump, most notably Trump himself.
dick Cheney endorsed kamala
Yeah, but 2000 Republicans blamed Russia for all their problems. And 2025 Democrats blame Russia for… Oh.
Someone go get that guy complaining about ‘bothsiders’ on lw last week.
Leftists can pat themselves on the back for knowing this all they want… but the truth of the matter is that even leftists themselves have largely fallen for the propagandistic myth that liberalism is (somehow) “less” right-wing than it’s fascist co-conspirators.
Just the introductory Wikipedia page on liberalism makes it perfectly clear that liberalism fetishises the very “ideals” that all but ensure the power and privilege of the already-wealthy at the expense of everyone and everything else (you know… the power and privilege that fascism exists to protect through the use of unbridled state violence) - yet I do not see leftists coming up with any bright ideas to fight liberalism in the same way that leftists oppose fascism.
Leftists come up with bright ideas to fight capitalist liberals since thousands of years.
Liberalism hasn’t existed for a thousand years, smoothbrain.
Liberals are fascist apologists.
The do a LOT more than just apologise for fascists, I’m afraid.
the truth of the matter is that even leftists themselves have largely fallen for the propagandistic myth that liberalism is (somehow) “less” right-wing than it’s fascist co-conspirators.
I believe the line is “fascism is imperialism returning to the core”. But if you’re living in the core, there’s obviously a huge difference.
liberalism fetishises the very “ideals” that all but ensure the power and privilege of the already-wealthy at the expense of everyone and everything else
When aristocrats run your schools, you’re going to get an academic view that’s very friendly to their place in the world.
But that isn’t strictly an issue of liberalism, it’s the corrosive consequences of philanthropy. Powerful and privileged people fetishize themselves. The rest of us are left to rationalize what we see and hear from a privatized media.
I believe the line is “fascism is imperialism returning to the core”.
I prefer mine - fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost.
But if you’re living in the core, there’s obviously a huge difference.
I don’t really understand what you mean by this.
But that isn’t strictly an issue of liberalism, it’s the corrosive consequences of philanthropy.
I’d say that it is… so-called “philanthropy” is a perfectly liberal way of “humanising” the intended beneficiaries of liberal ideology - ie, capitalists. It’s no different than the aristocracy “humanising” themselves by tossing alms to the peasantry.
I don’t really understand what you mean by this.
I mean there’s a very big difference between living in the comfort of the core under a liberal regime and living during a reactionary pogrom.
I’d say that it is… so-called “philanthropy” is a perfectly liberal way of “humanising” the intended beneficiaries of liberal ideology - ie, capitalists. It’s no different than the aristocracy “humanising” themselves by tossing alms to the peasantry.
Sure. The only real difference is technology and scale. But the scale matters a lot, because its easy to see a straight line between a lord’s lackey distributing alms. It is significantly more difficult for someone to understand why AEI shills and Ford Foundation hacks keep showing up on NPR to parrot right-wing economic talking points couched in progressive verbage. It is more difficult to understand the scale of Walton Family wealth or the degree to which cryptocurrency speculation has been used to hijack Congressional campaigns.
Larger and more complex systems are more difficult to resist, in no small part because they become difficult to recognize as a material problem rather than just a foundation of daily life.
blah blah
Oh, look… a liberal that is still sore that their liberal celebrities got caught with their hands in the genocide cookie jar.
I actually couldn’t give a fuck about Gaza or Israel. Wrap your head around that. Just because I’m liberal doesn’t mean I believe in X or Y or Z. I think both those countries suck and have been killing each other for a LONG time. I don’t believe it’s the USA’s business to be the world police. They can sort it out themselves as far as I’m concerned.
I actually couldn’t give a fuck about Gaza or Israel.
It’s only your honesty that’s surprising, liberal. But only mildly so.
Just because I’m liberal doesn’t mean I believe in X or Y or Z
You’re a liberal, and you believe liberal brain-rot. Is that difficult to understand?
They can sort it out themselves as far as I’m concerned.
So will you be telling your liberal celebs to stop being the world’s most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism any time soon? Or are you still too fond of the brutal colonialism that allows your spoilt and meaningless existence to continue?
you’re fucking delusional man
Uhh, which leftists have you been talking to? Are you sure they weren’t psyops?
Since the majority of the population is liberal in the US. To effectively fight fascism is to work with liberals against fascism. We don’t have to agree with liberals. Once we have some room to breathe we can then start picking fights with liberals again.
To effectively fight fascism is to work with liberals against fascism.
You CAN’T fight fascism in alliance with the very people who literally invented fascist institutions (such as the police, for instance) to protect the status quo from the people at the bottom of our society.
The fascists ARE their allies.
Well then, let me know when you’re going to start the revolution with 5% of the population. I’ll be rooting for you. Good luck!
I’ll be rooting for you.
No. You won’t. You’ll be too busy licking fascist boot.
This kind of “same guy both sides” mentality is why you guys are fucked and why you fucked the rest of the world and gave us trump, he’s the same as Biden right so why not? You guys were like “we will never vote for Biden! Sick of old white guys. We need something different!”
“Here’s an educated black woman instead “
“… no. Not that”
The American left has splintered and nobody is good enough or left enough for anyone else, if you’re even slightly right or even left of someone you may as well be a genocidal Nazi. What’s an ally? No such thing to American leftists anymore, you either conform 100% or you’re a Nazi. Meanwhile the right united and smoked you guys. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, the American left has to reflect American culture, after all you’re American, so no wonder the American left lost their mind.
By the way, im shitting on American leftists only, we leftists around the world still have a brain and are shaking our heads at you guys
American liberals fucked themselves and the rest of the world.
American capitalist democracy has been failing for more than a decade and liberals have done nothing but defend it from reform.
The u.s needs young progressives, I never caught on to Bernie. How are people gonna complain about old white, wealthy men being i power while asking for Bernie?? Makes no sense. He’s got great ideas but can’t win and is too old. Hopefully AOC gets to be president before she becomes a corrupt career politician
I’d be ok with old if it came with socialist.
Ah yes, the liberal mentality where leftists are somehow both completely irrelevant as a voting bloc that politicians need to court, and at the same time leftists are solely responsible for any and all votes not received by whatever incompetent candidate the liberals presented.
Your comment only proves my point. This whole “liberal” being used in a derogatory way because you al think we should speak like Americans, and if you’re a liberal so what? I’m not an idiot who thinks a liberal is the same thing as maga, I have nuance. I am far more left than you but again proving my point, i disagree with you so therefore I must be maga right? You guys want no allies anymore, and then you cry that nobody takes your side. The American left has become extremists, and just as toxic as the right but in the opposite way
Dude, liberals are people who support and idealise capitalism. They are right wing. It’s like that around the world. It’s not “talking like Americans”. On the contrary, people from the US confuse what’s left and what’s liberal a lot. That’s a nuance to be aware of.
I can pull definitions of words out of my ass too. I can come up with quite a few for Americans. Funny thing is im indigenous and I have never experienced so much racism and intolerance from the left as I have this past election. My native ass getting lectured by middle class white kids about privilege and colonialism and genocide while they call me all sorts of horrible names for calling out their hypocrisy. Y’all loved and still benefit from the raping you gave my country and people, but lord forbid anyone call you Americans out for it.
The American left has reached a point where they think they are a bigger minority than actual minorities, and they are above the guilt of the system they live in just cause they grudge it while participating in it. The American left thinks they are above racism and bigotry, while practicing it. “All that horrible shit, that’s republicans! See so im not responsible! I can’t possibly be ignorant! I went to college and I put down people who didn’t regularly!” Is all the American left is now
I’m not sure if you are, directly criticizing me, or if that comment is more generally about the experiences you had. I have never even visited the US.
I’m sorry that you have to face all that racism.
we leftists around the world still have a brain
True, we could learn from you
Note to self: try insulting other leftists more?
You guys already do that, Democrat? Fuck you, centrist? Fuck you. Etc. that’s the point of my comment, that to you guys an ally is no longer acceptable
Dude the Dems have never bothered courting leftist votes. We have basically nothing in common ideologically except for maybe some crossover on identity politics stuff. Now y’all want to have our support because your prosecutor status-quo DNC candidate was defeated running on imo terrible unsupportable policies no different to Biden? We don’t do voting for the lesser evil. Put up an actual progressive candidate and leftists will be happy to vote for them. FYI being black or being a woman doesn’t automatically mean you’re progressive. That’s reductive and prioritises identity politics over policy substance. You don’t get to keep your neo-liberal policies and your leftist votes. Pick one or the other. And don’t blame leftists because you keep making the wrong choice.
You realize not everyone is in USA, yes?
Did you even read my comment? It states clearly that if you’re not American it’s not about you
This kind of “same guy both sides” mentality is why you guys are fucked and why you fucked the rest of the world and gave us trump
I mean, you’re kinda talking directly to me.
The study doesn’t match the headline.
Seriously. The rhetorical shift:
Study of American men’s self-reported political affiliation shows that “moderate” aligns pretty closely with “conservative.”
Headline assigns “moderate” political affiliation to Joe Biden, to suggest that Joe Biden’s policies align closely with “conservative.”
Biden campaigned on being the most progressive president in U.S. history. Did he deliver? Not on all metrics, but whatever it is he did, he wasn’t a secret conservative pretending to be moderate. The most you can accuse him of is being a moderate pretending to be progressive.
Biden was a fundamentalist catholic who thought homosexuality was a sin and abortion was murder.
Everything he did that could be considered progressive he did as a compromise to his own values - that’s what makes him a moderate.
That’s exactly the type of person this article is talking about.
Eh I’ve spoken to Biden personally about gay rights, dude’s not bigoted and leans into the progressive catholic church. His wife being a physician doesn’t see abortion as murder I don’t think. His conservative tendencies are that he’s establishment - he thinks he’s still playing the same football game they’ve been playing since he was a kid. He’s neoliberal as hell as is the entire Democratic leadership, which turns people off.
His wife being a physician
She isn’t though. She’s an Ed.D (her doctorate is in education) not an MD.
A catholic fundamentalist will only support marriage as a universal right when not supporting it becomes a liability, for the same reason catholicism and christianity writ large legitimized and supported the institutions of slavery and segregation for far longer than they were publicly popular for
Biden, for all his notable progressive compromises, will drag his feet against doing anything insufficiently popular, no matter how unjust the alternative is.
“Men on dating apps who say they’re moderate are conservative”
First, we knew that. Second, Biden is not on a dating app.
You mean that the “hot senators in your area” ads are just scams!?!
You sure about that?
Segregationist Biden is a moderate?
“I’m a liberal on health care because I believe it is a birth right of every human being—not just some damn privilege to be meted out to a few people. But when it comes to issues like abortion, amnesty, and acid, I’m about as liberal as your grandmother. I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body. I support a limited amnesty, and I don’t think marijuana should be legalized.”
Actions speak louder than words:
“experts say” is a bullshit phrase
You can verify Biden’s racist and segregationist past, or just look at his administration’s complicity in war crimes.
Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to War
Domestically and internationally he wasn’t a moderate.
I’d just like to take a moment to say f-ck Hamas, f-ck anyone who supports terrorists, and f-ck anyone who thinks Joe Biden was responsible for “gEnOcIdE”.
“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be
freedestroyed and turned in to the Trump Resort/Casino Gaza because of dunces like me.” <— There, I fixed your little slogan for you.(P.S. If you’re in the US and you or your relatives get deported to an El Salvadorian gulag, don’t say people like me didn’t warn you.)
I never said he was. Quit making assumptions and have a conversation.
Definitely wasn’t disagreeing with you haha
The entire issue with “the middle ground” is that it’s based in relativistic politics which is a complete non-stater since their goal is specifically to not to commit enough to any action such that it actually succeeds. There’re no thoughts behind those eyes, just a weird and bad compromise because they don’t understand anything and are just barely good enough people to not go 100% into hating minorities.
Yes! These people don’t have strong enough opinions to change things, therefore they support the Status quo, which is conservative.
I think this also has to do with how “we” refuse to speak of left and right as actual sets of ideals as opposed to relative positions. As far as voters go they see themselves as centrist because they aren’t far right fascists so they’re to the “left” of them, but they don’t agree with “the left” so they’re to the “right” of them. Their actual beliefs though would make them conservatives and so right wingers…
As far as politicians, they just want to get elected and the Bidens of the world know they can’t win as Republicans especially today.
People who call themselves centrist, are uneducated in regards to political terms. They don’t know what they are talking about, but assume they do and they never go out of their way to educate themselves on these matters.
but they don’t
agree withknow anything about “the left” so they’re to the “right” of them.FTFY.
Right, most of these idiots don’t have a clue what the Left actually is.
That goes for all sides frankly
Most of these idiots believe in what the left would have the chance to propose if they hadn’t been brainwashed into believing that the left is communism is evil.
Social security? Accessible healthcare? Being able to live a comfortable life? Working hard leading to an appropriate reward?
Don’t underestimate the appeal of racism. The biggest barrier to the expansion of the US social safety net is the fact that many, many white people would willingly vote to make themselves poorer, so long as they kept an income advantage over black people. Many white voters would rather vote themselves into penury rather than see one black person get any form of government assistance.
That’s all part of the brainwashing, look at what Trump sold them, the end of the elite’s hold over their lives… That’s a left side message! I’m 100% sure the vast majority of them wouldn’t care about the race of beneficiaries if they were given the chance to understand that both them and black folks wouldn’t be the ones paying for it, the actual elite would be, but media would never give them that chance.
It’s not brainwashing though. It’s a cynical, evil, but rational attempt at race- and gender-based privilege and affirmative action. White men enjoyed massive affirmative action for the entirety of the nation’s history up until very recently. All the good jobs were arbitrarily assigned to white men; they didn’t have to compete with the majority of the population. They had an artificially-high opportunity for success simply handed to them from birth.
Racism and sexism are evil, but they’re also rational. This isn’t just dumb idiots being exploited with false promises. It’s a racial and gender group coming together and saying, “we’re going to come together and vote ourselves unearned privilege and opportunities. We will use the power of our votes to raise ourselves up at the expense of everyone else.”
Racism isn’t irrational; it’s just evil. Racism and sexism are perfectly materially rational. They’re a conspiracy by one group to give themselves unearned opportunities, power, and wealth. Dismissing it as “brainwashing” just completely misses the point of racism.
They’re brainwashed into believing that the enemy is people like them except for their skin color and not the rich white men exploring both them and their perceived enemy. These people aren’t born racist, but they’re born at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder.
What comes to my mind is, that it’s great when people who work hard get rewarded, but that should only be an extra, not a necessity for a good life. And working too hard shouldn’t be glorified, there need to be limits.
Some people just want to work harder than required though (I’ve got a workaholic uncle but he just loves his job, my FiL spent his career working 60h/week in research out of choice…) and they should be rewarded accordingly, but as you say, working a full time schedule is already hard enough, it’s not normal that people can’t live comfortably doing that!
The wrong side of the road, that’s what it is.
Clearly folks on the left need to double down on cancel-culture, finger-wagging, and shaming people in to compliance. After all, who cares if MAGA Republicans get to stay in power forever because the left can’t win an election? Human rights are over-rated anyways.
No, what really matters is that at the end of the day, left-wingers are secure in knowing that they are correct and righteous, and are better human beings than anyone who’s not as far-left as they are. Always remember: Ideological purity is more important than winning elections.
…And if you believe any of that, then you are a f*cking tool who’s just as responsible for Trump’s rise to power as anyone who voted for him.
Some of them genuinely seem to be in some weird form of denial I can’t understand. I lost a friend from his slide during covid who would fit this. Self identified moderate who only ever defended right wing views and the worst of the grifters.
Okay I read the source now and what I found funny is the part where people describe how “moderates” on dating apps are just conservatives. An observation I can regard as true in my experience, they are just self-aware enough to not be dismissed outright, but not self-aware enough to actually change a thing about themselves and become a better person.
This is DEEPPY VALIDATING thank you
This is DEEPLY VALIDATING thank you
As it should be! After all, self-validation is far more important than winning elections.
Clearly you folks on the left did everything right in the 2024 election, and have no need for improvement. No, it’s those pesky voters who are wrong. Surely, doubling down on the condescending attitudes, the cancel culture, and the ideological purity tests is the way to go.
I mean, who cares if you never win another election ever again? Having the political power to preserve human rights is over-rated anyhow. What’s really important is that you know deep down that you are a better human being than anyone who disagrees with you.
As it should be! After all, self-validation is far more important than winning elections.
and being condescending to leftists especially when they are correct and it makes you annoyed you can’t come up with good rhetorical counter arguments that hold together logically… is the MOST important!!
There is, after all, no middle ground on most social issues anymore
There never was, unless you consider supporting desegregation but not interracial marriage a middle ground I guess.
