Credit: u/manchesterMan0098
Going from “men need intimacy” to “manchild wants a mommy” is toxic masculinity on the second guy’s part.
What about only reading the last part of the description instead of the whole thing to make a snap judgment? Is that toxic masculinity? Or is it just reframing it for your own ends, which is gender neutral?
So what was that because you just went off on someone who made a valid point.
Why don’t we all have a bit of nuance here? Wanting to be in a loving relationship doesn’t mean you need therapy. Obviously.
Some people don’t need to be in therapy and some people do need to be in therapy and the people who do need to be in therapy should be in therapy regardless of their gender. Making overly broad statements like pretty much both of these two are doing is entirely unhelpful.
What is also unhelpful is being rude and snarky.
Ooo that’s kind of a good point too.
It was definitely dunking for internet points.
Firstly, a disclaimer…while I shouldn’t really have to say this given the language I’ve used, I will anyway: I am by no means talking about ALL men.
The problem is that this is not an unfounded stereotype, made evident by the fact that the discrepancy between how household and childcare tasks are divided between partners (heterosexual, at least) is still a significant and prevalent issue.
Subconsciously or otherwise, this sadly rings true with a lot of men, who, at least in part, want—and sometimes expect—a woman who will adopt every role a mother would take. That is, taking care of most of the chores/household management/childcare duties, and without protest. Even when, say, both of them work full-time jobs.
Too many of these men either 1. do not know how to do simple household tasks (and are not unlikely to have adopted learned helplessness as a result), 2. deliberately delay or fuck up chores to get their partner to get frustrated and give up on asking for help altogether, or 3. simply don’t notice how much more work their partner is doing than they are.
I acknowledge that a lot of boys aren’t taught how to cook do chores as much as girls are, and those who haven’t been were failed by the adults in their life in that regard. It’s not a valid excuse once you’re an adult, though.
The first poster isn’t describing two way intimacy though. They are describing a mommy.
They don’t say anything about it being one-sided though. Could be worded better, but let’s not assume the worst.
“All the battles he fought that day” sir you work in an air conditioned office with a coffee machine five feet from your desk
Honey, can you come nurture and restore my energy? I’ve been sending emails all day.
That may be true, but office work definitely has challenges of its own.
Oh absolutely, it’s not that I have a problem with. It’s more the need that these losers have to lionise everything they do to the point of parody. Everything is framed in these grand terms of war and civilisation. They can’t just be having a rough day at work, they’re warriors fighting battles. They can’t just go to the gym to keep fit and improve themselves, they’re alpha males holding up the ideals of Western civilisation. They can’t just settle down and raise a family, they’re continuing the proud legacy of their forefathers and upholding family values. You get the picture.
It’s such a naked attempt to avoid anything that might be in the slightest bit emasculating and it’s honestly pathetic. They’re terrified of being perceived as anything other than a tough macho man that can only communicate through violence and threats. They think it makes then look like strong men when it actually does the opposite. Strong-willed people don’t talk like this.
Are you saying this because you are aware of that guy worldview (maybe you looked into him) or did you manage to infer all this from a single tweet?
Like, I agree about the substance if we are talking about the manosphere. But it seems a bit quick to assume this guy is part of “them” just from this, no?
I’m pretty familiar with this guy. This is what he’s like pretty much all the time. He’s very much part of the manosphere.
Yeah, that is definitely quite silly.
Heh, how bout those alphas, amirite?
Almost all people have some need (depending on the definition) for physical intimacy. Not just men.
That said, people saying men need a therapist aren’t saying a therapist would help men and a therapist would authentically be in their best self interest (unless you are extremely patronizing). They’re saying a therapist would fix them, because men need fixing. Its not out of some genuine desire to make men happier.
What we really need to say is men need re-education. Because it is primarily men that are fucking up the world.
Maybe liberals need to take a pro suicide stance on men? Starting in school ideally to make it easy. Because of we are inherently bad what other choice is there when you are not welcome in any liberal group? This is kind of sarcasm. But I really am out of ideas. When rhe left won’t see you as any different then musknor tate regardless of their views then there is no hope.
I’m not a liberal. I’m also a man myself. I know you were just being a bit of an antagonistic shitposter, but I would not advocate for suicide obviously. But I’ve already proposed a fairly radical solution of just having fewer male babies in the first place, though as a solution to a different problem: men are romantically lonely, women are not romantically lonely.
Suicide solves the problem sooner.
Yeah my fucking battle of testing software and doing deep dives on bugs.
I get that the original was a bit sensationalist but I don’t see a problem with the overall message. Yes it was needlessly gendered but again that doesn’t change the message.
People need people that care about them and will listen. That’s it.
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Trauma therapy helped me a lot, speak for yourself. CBT is still over applied in my opinion, though, when other therapies are appropriate.
CBT is often used to get you to gaslight yourself, which is more effective than getting others to do it for you.
Kinda snarky, kinda serious on this comment
And don’t ask for CBT from a hooker unless you know what your getting into.
“Wait no, I meant cbD! Ahhhhhhh, my balls! 😩”
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That’s because we don’t really understand how brains work. Psychology is just barely coming out of the dark ages. You’re going to run into a lot of psychologists who’ll want to do the mental equivalent of balancing your humors or sticking leeches on you.
If you dont want to both provide and receive caring, nurturing, and intimacy, as needed in a relationship, stay single.
That is the entire point. “to have and to hold” isn’t a nearly universal marriage vow for nothing, even if it’s a lie when said by many of either sex.
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
Eh…. Of all the people I know in relationships, none of them are transactional like you’re saying and they all want to be supported. So, unless my area of the world is different, this may just be a vocal minority that you’re running into online.
I’m married myself, but have noticed a fairly recent “reality” dating television proclivity rotting my significant other’s brain with regards to this.
I’m concerned for her because she never used to be into such drivel and it is changing her opinions on the dynamics of marital life. Those shows are the gospel of making relationships about material gain and tit for tat.
I might be lucky in that the worst reality show my wife watches is “The Challenge” which left most of its real drama behind and is now more like 30 or 40 year olds doing physical challenges.
If anything that kind of transactional relationship is less likely now then in the past since divorce is now more socially acceptable.
people think they need stuff, we are programmed to think we need x things, which people describe as “the grass is greener on the other side”. if you think a girlfreind will help you, maybe it will, but i seen more people more people dissapointed in a realthship then worth it (not saying they are unhappy).
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
There definitely seems to be this feeling online that everyone has that everything is now terrible and everything was wonderful and roses in the past. But that simply is not true. It isn’t worse now than it was 20 years ago, and it’s a lot better now than it was 50 years ago. I really do not understand why people seem to go around believing everything is falling apart.
Hasn’t marriage been a business affair for much of history?
Varried by region culture and era but yeah at the bare minimum it was true for the upper classes and merchants. Farmers, Craftsmen, and Mariners seem to have generally married for social reason be it friendship or love.
Men need a loving relationship and therapy.
I wonder if there’s a market for male-centric therapy. As in “I’ve got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we’ll talk about stuff”. You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn’t do that with someone who’s known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn’t feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they’re accomplishing something.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There’s rarely any solutions but that’s because the shit we’re venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
Yeah, it does exist. Usually in group settings. But not usually with sharp objects.
Like the boy scouts for adults?
That’s called triangulation! Focusing on a different task makes it easier to have vulnerable conversations.
This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn’t gender it. Say it’s “hands on therapy for physically oriented people” or something. I’m sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They’ll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
I’m a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
And it already exists, called occupational therapy or ergotherapy.
Occupational therapy is a thing, but it is a very different thing. Occupational therapy is part of rehab that helps patients regain or retain activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, and feeding themselves, etc.
And it can mean building something with them and then talking about how they are. I work closely together with OTs who do exactly that.
I don’t want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That’s an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
Does OSHA even still exist?
Well it’s a federal agency right so I assume everyone’s been fired.
Probably no worse than the bars where you can throw axes.
To all those saying, “but why shouldn’t men want to be cared for?”
This meme plays into a narrative the makes women subservient.
It suggests that only men “battle”, and that being a man and “battling” entities them to care by women.
No where in this is acknowledgement that women have burdens too, and that all people benefit from care.
No where in this is any hint of reciprocity. If anything, it implies that the “joy” of taking care of “her man” should be enough.
No. Walk the fuck on. Having a penis doesn’t entitle you to one-sided care.
The other thing implied by this - that women should ‘naturally’ be able to fix ‘her man’. But if a woman in broken? Oof - ‘she has Daddy issues’ and better fix herself, right?
And what if a woman tries to fix ‘her man’ and fails? Oh look - isnt that convenient - society just took all his faults and made them her failures. Wow! Who wouldn’t want to sign up for that??
And just look at that success rate. You can count up the number of women killed by intimate partners and see how great this plan is.
Society really needs to get past this childish narrative that tells men they should expect to find a manic pixie dream girl who lives only to make him happy. Men make fun of girls for believing in Prince Charming, but this is truly the more destructive fairy tale.
I would say that, conditional to the man having a partner, intimacy is a hell of a lot more accessible than therapy. Provided that intimacy is not rationed or made conditional, this could provide more lasting and more timely healing than therapy as well.
With that said, we really need to normalize men seeking therapy. There are far too many men where the conditions above are not met, and so could and would benefit more from therapy than intimacy.
I’ll take both please.
Yeah this interaction is really weird. I don’t agree with the second guys statement at all. Wanting to be in a relationship is a perfectly normal thing to want and isn’t mummy issues.
Where does the woman go when she needs to be nurtured and have her batteries restored? Men aren’t the only ones fighting battles out there. In a healthy relationship, you’re supporting each other.
Also, not everybody is looking for a woman who is “soft” or “feminine”. Maybe I want somebody who’s a rough-and-tumble badass. I have a feeling that kind of a person would be a better support for my personality.
It’s also worth noting…you shouldn’t be using your partner as your therapist. If you’re constantly trauma-dumping on somebody, it isn’t fair to them, and it isn’t fair to you, because they aren’t trained in how to help you like a therapist is. Sure, cry on their shoulder when life is hard and all that, but if you’re having mental health problems, go see somebody who’s board-certified.
Tbh nothing was said about “men” not reciprocating that same function. We are all discussing based on assumptions, but I think it’s totally fair to have someone with whom you can discuss the daily hardships of life, vent and share the burdens, while feeling loved. Obviously, you also have to be that person for your partner. I also wouldn’t categorize the above as “trauma dumping”, just a regular relationship where you share the bad in addition of the good.
No idea what OP meant exactly (not that I care), but a lot of the answers here assume the worst and go on a tangent IMHO.
OP started with “men do not need a therapist”, and then implied that their wife or girlfriend should be their therapist instead. This is, in fact, an unhealthy dynamic, and that is why people called it out as such.
The way I read it, it implied that they should have a place to open up and have intimacy. I read it more like “the lack of that is what creates the necessity to go to therapy”.
The post didn’t mention it has to be one-sided. A helpful and healthy answer for those concerned of reciprocity could be along the lines of “it’s cool, but I’d like to add women need support no less than men. Also, preferences may differ, so overgeneralizing on what men want isn’t right”.
Let’s also add “Sometimes, men do need a therapist”.
Everyone can benefit from a therapist and everyone can benefit from a loving, caring partner.
Who knew?
It definitely does not need to be one or the other. Oftentimes therapy could help in the relationship department considerably. Deep hurt is hard to get through alone, yet I hope more and more people understand there is help out there.
If relationships are a two way street, and one person is hurting enough to affect their role within it all there should be no shame in reaching out in that way. It could help a lot. It’s a shame there’s still so much stigma around therapy.I dont think that stigma is going to get any better any time soon (at least in the US). The past year has given me significantly less trust that anything medical remains private; i have no trust that things said in confidence will not be weaponized against me by the current government. There have already been cases of states demanding medical records for pregnancy, abortion, and transgender records, and texas actually got their hands on some records IIRC.
My therapist says she takes a bare minimum of notes because she understands the fear people have of private info getting leaked. Maybe someone worried about that could ask about their notes process during the therapist-finding stage.
I was implying that both are beneficials.
Oh yeah me too. I agree with everything you said, was just adding on my bit :)
I can’t comprehend what I read today. Sorry
No no, could’ve been how I worded it haha. It’s all gravy.
I choose a loving, varying therapist.
I don’t think the OP in the screenshot is describing a loving partnership though - the emotional support described is very much one sided.
There is no reason to assume that
Wait wait wait… You’re telling me people need love? Pfft I don’t believe it.
I can guarantee there are at least a few people out there who don’t actually need love in adulthood to live happy and fulfilling lives.
How do you figure that?
Because there are always exceptions.
Always.
There is a well-known study about this: All You Need Is Love (Martin et al., 1967)
I mean he described therapy
