• Ulrich@feddit.org
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        28 days ago

        Both of these apps have device-level notifications to let you know when an app is listening. I promise they’re not. There was a service a while back that was claiming this in their advertising and it went public and their partners all scattered like flies. No one wants to be associated with that sort of thing. It’s unnecessary anyway.

      • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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        28 days ago

        Comments like this try to make you give up on privacy by making it look like all is lost from the get to.

        They are lying, don’t believe them, there is a lot you can do to protect your privacy.

  • solrize@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    Article is from 2018. Someone must have pasted the url from hacker news where the same story was dug up recently.

    • nalinna@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      Is that to say that it’s no longer valid? Or just that it’s old news? The list of apps associated with the software is still pretty extensive; Google Assistant even showed up.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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        29 days ago

        Well these days Android asks for more permissions so I guess it would prevent it in many cases by preventing access to the microphone for apps where you don’t want it…

        • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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          28 days ago

          Yeah, most people just click beyond that in a millisecond because it’s just an an annoyance between them and the needed dopamine.

          I think app stores can do a whole lot more, especially with he insane amounts of money they’re earning from it (hello and fuck you, apple). They can make microphone access a special privilege that requires the developer to make a special request that gets verified on the app store before the app can be released, for example

      • thangcuoi@lemm.ee
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        29 days ago

        7 years is a long time in tech.

        Google Assistant is supposed to listen for the “Hey Google” trigger word. How else do you expect to use your device hand-free.

        • Psychadelligoat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          28 days ago

          It also does it completely locally, using an on-device chip. If your phone has the Google assistant on it, disable all Internet and try the wake phrase, it’ll work. Nothing else does, because it has to phone home for that, but the wake phrase handling IS on-device. Can’t even turn the flashlight on otherwise tho lol, even if you use what we used to call the power button (new name for it? Lock button?) and type what you want it bitches about internet

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        29 days ago

        Not only on iOS. I use Android and my microphone is always off unless I allow a specific app to use it, and even then, I have the option of only allowing it for that one time. Including the phone app.

        Mic and camera are always off.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            29 days ago

            A little pop up comes up saying something about “getting the most out of your phone” with the option to turn the mic on for the app that’s requesting it (phone app). Only turns on for the call. Just gotta tap the screen once.

            I keep the mic and camera options at the top of my quick-… whatever they call them… options, so if I need either one for something else, it’s super easy to turn off/on.

            Android shows a little green logo in the top right if the mic and/or camera is on as well. So if I ever do enable them, it’s easy to remember to turn them off again.

              • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                29 days ago

                It works great for me. I’m using a Pixel with stock Android, so I can only speak to how it behaves on my phone. I know sometimes carriers add/change shit.

      • pHr34kY@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        I can be absolutely certain no apps can access my mic in the background. Even when in the foreground, there is a hot-mic indicator.

        • BossDj@lemm.ee
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          29 days ago

          Here’s the misleading part:

          Tap on one of those “while in use” apps. You’ll see there is no option “allowed all the time.” It doesn’t exist.

          “while in use” is top level, and changes to “while using the app” when you actually look at the permission. They really mean when the app is running. And many often run in the background.

      • stebator@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        Because it is software-based access control, it is impossible to guarantee that access really has been disabled. Thanks to Apple’s design, we now live in a world where users are not supposed to detach batteries or physically turn off microphones and cameras; it’s all software-controlled. The problem is that software can be hacked and have backdoors. Also, thanks to Apple’s smart design, users can no longer upgrade the memory sticks on their Mac Minis and MacBooks. Why do I say it is all Apple’s fault? Unfortunately, other manufacturers copy these design ideas…

    • SuiXi3D@fedia.io
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      29 days ago

      Tell that to Facebook. Shit, I’ll talk about something with my wife and see ads about it ten minutes later. Been happening for years.

      • Miles O'Brien@startrek.website
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        29 days ago

        I tested this with my Facebook app in 2013. Found a Spanish radio station, set my phone down next to it overnight, and for several weeks I was seeing ads exclusively in Spanish. Deleted the app the first day I saw them in Spanish, and deleted my account not long after that.

        My wife still uses them after 5 years together and me pointing out all the times it’s obviously eavesdropping on us, and she’s even been creeped out by it before. Still uses it…

        Unless my microphone and camera have physical switches, I will assume they are being used. Those little “your camera and microphone are off” icons in the corner of the screen don’t reassure me.

        • thangcuoi@lemm.ee
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          28 days ago

          Did you receive the Spanish radio signal over the traditional airwaves or streaming. Was it a digital radio, as those can also be tracked.

        • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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          28 days ago

          This has been tested and proven time and time again. Google and Apple give apps a method to access the mic that the OS can allow or deny. This is what the apps are supposed to use.

          Facebook doesn’t use that method for passive monitoring, only for active engagement. Don’t looks like it’s working when you go the use the thing and it’s disabled but it’s still listening to you.

          If you must use such a social network, never ever ever use the mobile app. Use the website or don’t use the service at all.

      • thangcuoi@lemm.ee
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        29 days ago

        It’s more likely that your wife or someone nearby was further researching the same topic you were talking about.

        Facebook and other ad companies use your location, relationships, and other data they already had on you to serve you relevant ads.

        At this stage, they know more about you than the government, or your wife.

        • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Bullshit. The amount of times I’ve had random conversations about odd topics for the very first time with my wife and the fucking subject appears in a FB add three hours later.

          Nope, go peddle your corpo propaganda elsewhere.

        • thejml@lemm.ee
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          29 days ago

          I’ve read about this phenomenon in the past. Generally it’s found that due to audio processing cost and the sheer amount of other data easily gathered, there’s no reason for them to snoop with your microphone because other data is so readily available, much easier to process, store and ship.

          • 0oWow@lemmy.world
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            28 days ago

            I read about that recently as well. There is a problem though. Your phone can turn your voice into text instantly. It’s a feature built in to your keyboard. They could turn the audio into text and then transmit the text only. Saves much data that way.

          • Euphoma@lemmy.ml
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            28 days ago

            Honestly these days they could process the audio on your phone with a small audio classification machine learning model, although nowadays phone os’s show if the mic is in use

      • Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        29 days ago

        That’s monitoring you and your closests’ other behavior, as well as monitoring then nudging you towards wanting certain things. The ad itself is the last nudge in that chain that tries to go “you wanted this, don’t you?” after all of the other thinking it’s making a case for your life being better with it.

        • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          my wife and I had been married for 2 years. been together for close to 10.

          not once did we EVER say “Adirondack Chair”. Just never came up in conversation. we were broke as fuck and couldn’t afford something as superfluous as one of those.

          One day, were driving down the road home and see one on the side of he road.

          what’s that?

          looks like an Adirondack Chair

          Adirondack Chair? For free?

          yeah, it looks broken though.

          we get home go inside. I sit down to veg on my phone on the sofa. what does Amazon put in my “things you like” feed? mother fuckin Adirondack Chairs. Google news feeds? Adirondack Chairs on sale.

          My wife had YouTube videos that were reviewing Adirondack Chairs.

          this was ten years ago. Imagine what they’re doing now…

          • Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            28 days ago

            This is stuff they could’ve gotten from location-data, or if your wifi was on, as you drive through different peoples’ wifi connections (both seeing where you’ve been, and hooking the data from you into data of people in your area to form connections of what’s trending and what they can get you to think about)

            I’m not saying they’re not mass-surveilling in the most efficient ways they can, but hot-mic while sounding frightening, is the least useful tool ever for their means, and as has already been mentioned in this thread, android auto locks out that permission now anyway, making this a bad focus in the sense that it is not over just cause they can’t get to your microphone.

  • elucubra@sopuli.xyz
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    28 days ago

    Right around the confinement my sister and I were talking about getting some seeds for my mom. Neither of us searched for seeds. From that point we both started to get ads for seeds, many for the ones we had talked about in particular. This thing was so unequivocal that it proved to me that our phones listen. Maybe they don’t analyze, but they definitely listen for words actionable for an advertising purposes.

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      That’s why i always forbid access to my microphones by apps. Many AI apps will also remember what you discussed long ago.

    • WildPalmTree@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      More likely, your late’ish habits and searches combined with age and another mountain of data correlated with people that have the same thought. We are no snowflakes.

      Edit: I should say, if this example is true. I’m not saying you are lying, just that if you are, it’s not a “gotcha”. This thread is making me paranoid! :)

      • 3DMVR@lemm.ee
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        27 days ago

        The thing is you can test it, simply never search anything related to it and see if you get ads, maybe I accidentally searched something but it works, or it could be wifi based maybe they searched something and it effected everyones ads, this could make sense if my roommates searched stuff and it effected my ads

        • Wren@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          I happened to say out loud to my girlfriend that there is a chance (a small one) that my ADHD medication can cause something called TD (Tardive Dyskinesia).

          Suddenly, our Netflix is showing adds for a new medication for it.

  • Auli@lemmy.ca
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    29 days ago

    Wasn’t there just a storey a couple days ago that apps where not doing this but taking screenshots and videos on the screen and sending that. And both iOS and Android have the microphone notification now.

    • Basic Glitch@lemm.ee
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      29 days ago

      I know I’m usually on the more paranoid side, but I’ve always assumed everything I do on a smartphone is potentially being monitored via camera or mics.

      If the apps are just taking screenshots, or recording a few seconds of data via mic, it would be almost guaranteed that certain corrupt (and also paranoid) governments that are dismissive of privacy rights could force or bribe those apps to allow them to also access screens, mics, and cameras anyway, right?

      I’m in the U.S., and especially with how glitchy my phone has suddenly become over the last few months, I’m just at the point where I just assume that’s what’s going on.

      I had the same android for like 4 years without many issues, then suddenly around February it just became almost impossible to use. Weird glitchy things with the size of the tool bar at the bottom of my screen and the popup keyboard. Redirect notifications all the time for certain websites, and my VPN connection is just constantly interrupted and having to be reset.

      I finally was like fuck it, this is an old phone so maybe that’s it. Brand new phone, but most of the same issues.

      I use signal instead of text most of the time, and switched a lot of things to proton mail, but if someone is potentially recording your screen, does it really matter if what you’re doing is encrypted?

      • chaospatterns@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        Past vulnerabilities doesn’t mean there is active mpdern vulnerabilities especially ones in widely tested operating systems that’s exploited by as many apps as people claim are listening when security researchers also regularly reverse engineer and analyze the source code of popular apps to figure out what they’re doing. You can decompile Android apps pretty easily to see what they’re doing. Some are obfuscated so it takes some effort.

        Its one thing to claim there’s some a system level bypass for the icon that the NSA uses to spy on its enemies, it’s another thing to claim that it’s being exploited on a wide scale by a tech companies on different apps, iOS and Android, multiple versions/devices.

        The reality is that we leak tons of info through other mediums that are easier and cheaper to collect than through microphones.

      • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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        28 days ago

        This link proves how robust the security research is and how quickly bugs like that are patched.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      i used to think this as well (i have never used any facebook apps), but last night something happened that made me question it.

      My wife and i were going through a chipotlane that was right next to a Popeye’s. As we were waiting i looked over to popeyes and saw some posters for their new pickle chicken stuff and asked my wife “the fuck is a pickle ‘glaze’?”

      she said “i have no idea but i kinda want some fried pickles now.”

      literally a few seconds later she opens instagram on her phone and is shown a video of a person making pickle brined chicken.

      yes yes it could be a coincidence, but i am a lot less certain of that now.

      • slumberlust@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        The way I’ve heard it is that it’s not just coincidence nor microphone scanning, but just the effectiveness of targeted ads in general. You could be within wifi range of other users who are searching for pickle stuff or you yourselves have a history of pickle purchases, etc. This stuff is scary specific already.

      • jaredt@lemmy.ca
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        27 days ago

        A few years ago, I would have said you were being overly paranoid. Nowadays, I’m in the same boat.

        Also, the fuck is a chipotlane?

  • altphoto@lemmy.today
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    28 days ago

    How can they tell I’m popping?.. Oh…what if I stopped flushing? So is that why some people don’t flush? They’re trying to be stealthy!

  • Psythik@lemm.ee
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    28 days ago

    Use NextDNS with strong filters and the DDG app with App Tracking Protection turned on. While no filter is 100% perfect, this combo stops the vast majority of privacy-invading shit from getting to 3rd parties.

    • masterofn001@lemmy.ca
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      28 days ago

      I use shizuku for hidden api/shell access…the devs of that have an app called appops which, you guessed it, allow you to change any appops permission for any app. Allows denying/ignoring clipboard access, device identifiers, location, microphone, etc.

      appops screenshots

      :::

  • kepix@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    yeah, alphonso appeared on my mibox, eset called it a trojan right after the update. had to delete it through adb, cause its a “system app”

    • iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com
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      28 days ago

      Reading this made me wonder if I was having a stroke, because it seems like English but I don’t recognize so many of the words. 👴

  • JATth@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    This might just push my fear of targeted ads enough to give in to my idea of a nearly soundproof box for my phone when I’m not using it. :(

    • FMT99@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Just install an OS that allows per-app microphone permissions. I’m running LineageOS and I can tell it for example to only allow Whatsapp mic access when I actively open the app. Actually according to the article, the same can be done on plain Android too.

  • Alpha71@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    Beer pong

    Yeah that sounds like an app user who would be okay with his audio being recorded…

    • hansolo@lemm.ee
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      27 days ago

      An app where all you end up recording is “Bro! Bro! Bro! Broseeeeph! Let’s gooooooo, Bro!”

  • dv48@lemm.ee
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    27 days ago

    I thought Android has a non bypassable green dot in the notification bar when the micro is on ?

    • SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      27 days ago

      It’s probably bypassable too. And, anytime the microphone is used, you have no idea the multiple extents that data is being used for.

      • poopkins@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        Apps can use the microphone in secret and there’s no way to know when they’re using the microphone? This is a major security flaw in Android!

        • SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          27 days ago

          Are you kidding? You do know that basically anything is hackable, right? And that’s why old people put tape and stuff over their cameras if they don’t just outright unplug them, right? It seems silly, but like… They’ve always been right, with their insane passwords and avoiding using their real names and stuff.

    • JigglypuffSeenFromAbove@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      I feel like you’re missing the point. Showing a green dot still doesn’t solve the problem or make it ok, especially when this technology works in the background and can capture sound even while the device is in your pocket, like the article says.

      I don’t think we should have to be on the lookout for a little dot showing up on the screen constantly. It shouldn’t even ask for microphone access unless it’s absolutely essential for the app’s main purpose. “Features” like this should always be off by default and buried deep in the settings. If people really wanted it (they don’t), they’d go in and turn it on themselves.

      • dv48@lemm.ee
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        27 days ago

        You’re absolutely right but that wasn’t my point. I thought that if one of my installed app was doing this, at some point I’d have seen it without even being on the lookout.

      • socsa@piefed.social
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        27 days ago

        This is literally how it works. In modern android you need to explicitly grants microphone permission to apps the first time you use them. Now, if they are clickjacking the permission notification, that’s something different, but the article doesn’t mention this. You can download your own microphone logs and verify if you are curious about this.

    • 3DMVR@lemm.ee
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      27 days ago

      Anyone whos said anything outloud and then immediately got an ad should know by now that it isnt some conspiracy, its easily testable by not searching something and just talking about it while having an app open, the more obvious one they track is dms, if I dm someone something (text based not posts) ill get ads or posts related to it.

      • 3DMVR@lemm.ee
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        27 days ago

        Im assuming they target your wifi too, because my ads change to reflect what I do on other devices too (always noticable as a hobby hopper)

    • nomy@lemmy.zip
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      27 days ago

      I remember a bunch of people freaking out about this a few years ago and an equal number telling them they were paranoid.

      You can talk about stuff and your phone will just magically start suggesting related items. Why would anyone be surprised the monitoring device in their pocket is monitoring them?

    • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Yes.

      Not to you or me, but there are tons of people, even here, that are absolutely incredulous towards the idea that its possible.

      • socsa@piefed.social
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        27 days ago

        I mean it implies that these apps are both violating permissions (in many cases) and the android visual indication of an active microphone. So far I have seen no actual proof that this is the case. Mic activity is logged. You can debunk this yourself easily.

      • GiveOver@feddit.uk
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        27 days ago

        I’m part of those people. The usual argument is that everybody’s phone is listening all the time, without agreeing to permissions or showing the mic notification or anything like that. I’ve never seen any proof of that. This article is about a bunch of shovelware apps (Pool 3D, Beer pong: Trickshot, Honey Quest etc) that aren’t even listed anymore. There’s nothing about them skirting permissions or hiding the notification.

        People see the headline and assume it’s Facebook et al.

  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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    27 days ago

    Good thing everyone diligently reads the T&A of Pool 3d before using it. You are reading every line of text before you hit agree, and then uninstall, right?

  • Ileftreddit@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    Instagram at least listens thru your mic, for sure. At least on my wife’s phone, she gets targeted ads based on conversations we have in the car with no music playing

    • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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      28 days ago

      About things the other person has searched for and visited and when their networks touch it spreads. It’s easy to do without a mic