On any of the donation threads where it came up and he replied to it, the most he ever did was some half hearted corporate PR “apology” (ironic)
Yeah, lets start donating to piefed.
Meh, maybe some non-tankie (and also non-right-wing) programmer can step up and we start working on a fork and we’ll donate? Maybe?
Anyone? 👀
ahem
Its Called Piefed
the alternative to lemmy is piefed. mbin also exists.
Problem is, piefed in run on a different code so you can’t just convert the lemmy database into piefed.
With a Lemmy fork, the transition would be seamless.
Sure, but you can just make a script that migrates it.
Right now, there isn’t any problems with the code, so there is no reason or incentive to fork it.
Sure, but you can just make a script that migrates it.
They’re working on that.
I read about that. I honestly would have switched to piefed myself if I hadn’t gotten too used to the lemmy-ui.
It’s not technically impossible to fork and port lemmy-ui to piefed (the APIs are similar. Hell, you might not even need to modify the code.)
I don’t mind not having lemmy-ui if i can keep using all the other lemmy clients, personally :D
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com appreciation
Probably the best admin on this entire platform, but I am biased as I am under their instance.
Shadow from lemmy.ca is also great. I’ve never had a single complaint about how they run things.
Agreed, as another person on dbzer lol
this piece of shit will never get any money from me
Then don’t use his software.
db0 trying not to be based challenge:
Impossible.
I mean they still left the begging thread up with the “separate the art from the artist” message, and let Nutomic intentionally mislead users about “developer salaries” not going to support .ml. If they really wanted to be based they would have banned Nutomic for being a greedy little pig boy and told people to donate to Piefed.
I mean they still left the begging thread up
That was me [that crossposted; just thought mander had a good idea :)] 😅 Sorry.
with the “separate the art from the artist” message
That’s db0’s fault to bear :p He actually walked it back later, seeing how nutomic refused to back down his beliefs.
If they really wanted to be based they would have banned Nutomic for being a greedy little pig boy and told people to donate to Piefed.
Good idea–I’d love to do that. I’ve been swaying all admins on the team to (in a year or two??) maybe switch to piefed. I’ve also helped a bit with piefed development directly; even helping with some migration tool rimu/AP are interested in. Hopefully we can in the future :D
Honestly, seeing how much of a shitshow that thread was; i think i’m going to delete it. I’ll wait for it to cool down in some days, and make a fundraiser post for rimu.
If you migrate dbzer0 to piefed, I’ll send you a decent donation to help cover some of the costs.
Appreciated. 🙂 though this probably wont happen for some time, the migration tool isn’t there yet.
Unless Piefed gets a database import ability to port Existing Lemmy databases to that I don’t think Switching to it would be such a great idea. It would mean starting our instance from scratch and losing everything we have content, user registrations, communities. If Sublinks hadn’t stalled it could be a promising alternative, and maybe will be in the future, since it’s built around that whole concept of database and API compatibility.
It would mean starting our instance from scratch and losing everything we have content, user registrations, communities
Not really, because PieFed can already copy/migrate community content.
Futhermore, there are lot functionalities that will improve your user experience as tags, flairs, tile view, multi-community, filter, wiki…they did that in 6 months whereas it was a lemmy issue since 2020.
PieFed is compatible with Lemmy API. But, it still a WIP, we need more python developper. :)
I’ve been swaying all admins on the team to (in a year or two??) maybe switch to piefed. I’ve also helped a bit with piefed development directly; even helping with some migration tool rimu/AP are interested in. Hopefully we can in the future :D
They’re working on that
Do you do this for every product in the supermarket
Bro where you been? Nestle is the classic example, tesla is a newer one, proton too, chic fil a, etc.
Yeah. People do also boycott stuff. What the fuck does he mean lmao.
ProtonMail was a huge disappointment. I was a paying customer.
But I’m happy so far with Tuta.
The topic of trans women in sports is a complex one and not black and white.
If Usain Bolt identified as a women and underwent the required procedures (not sure what that would be if any) Should he be allowed to compete in women’s sports?
Do you care more that a significant proportion of the population (0.5% of people depending on statistics) can be comfortable and fit into categories without being discriminated and thus have a community and do sports.
Or do you care more about who wins a medal at the olympics?
Essentially, do you care more about protecting medals or protecting people?
what if there was 3 sections for sports: male at birth, women at birth, and then a mixed thing in which anyone could compete
I don’t really see the problem with that sorta system
A lot of people didn’t see a problem with segregating water fountains by race, either.
bad comparison
Trans aren’t oppressed like black people were
Can’t use public bathroom for their gender even if they look like any other member of their gender.
Can’t use public bathroom for their assigned-at-birth gender because they don’t look like that gender anymore and it will feel - and be - unsafe.
Can’t enter their country of origin because their passport does not match their gender
Frequently harassed and ostracized, increasingly likely they will be denied healthcare that helps keep them alive
We’re not playing the “who had it worse” game because everyone loses.
But they are absolutely fucking oppressed.
Where do you base this on?
also i’m not sure if slavery and lynching are the same as being denied a bathroom.
Base what on? The countless stories of transgender (and cis misgendered) people being harassed in and around bathrooms?
The understanding based on real world experience that many transgender people pass as their gender, and therefore are clearly out of place in bathrooms meant for the gender that was assigned to them at birth?
The executive orders attempting to erase the recognition of transgender people entirely and require them to have the same gender listed on their passport as they did on their birth certificate? The State Department not returning or renewing passports for transgender people?
also i’m not sure if slavery and lynching are the same as being denied a bathroom.
How many times does this need to be said? How many times do majorities need to fucking hear this about minorities?
We’re not playing the “who has it worse” game because everyone loses.
yeah but segregating water fountains is different because the only reason it was done was bc of racism, there only needs to be one fountain
in sports men are inheritly stronger than women, so it makes sense to segregate them like that. now idk about how people transitioning from male to female or visa versa works with this, but if someone who was born male transitions to female but somehow retains some of that inherit strength (like say, they’ve got different bone structure or their muscles developed differently, or something that hormones cant change), I think they could have an advantage over other women in that sport.
I don’t wanna come off as transphobic or something, I don’t know much about all this, but I hope you see my point
I suspect the fact that you don’t know much about it is why you are parroting widely discredited transphobic talking points.
The point is that today, we see clearly with the benefit of hindsight that racial segregation was done purely for the sake of racism. At the time, people muddied the waters with pseudoscientific rationalizations like phrenology and eugenics to mislead the masses and justify their bigotry, just like people are doing today with trans people in sports.
The only reason water fountains are seen as different is because the racists lost and we collectively have a new perspective after decades of integration. The transphobes are still empowered. Make no mistake, the bigots would love to reinstate all manner of segregation if they could, racial or otherwise. Trans people are just an easier target right now.
Do you disagree that men have a biological advantage over women when it comes to physical prowess and strength?
first off thats a hypothetical situation made up for the single purpose of excusing discrimination.
second off, I think you should look into the process of transitioning. It seems that you just think it’s bottom surgery (“required procedures”) and that’s it.
Please learn about this topic before claiming that you know both sides. You can’t say its black and white when you haven’t even looked into the “required procedures”.
I’m not really good at refuting the points made against including trans people in sports, but John Oliver in Last Week Tonight did a segment about trans athletes if you actually want to learn about the pro trans athlete arguments.
While he did spend a part of an hour in the topic, keep in mind its a very limited and narrow perspective on the situation. Its still good for him to have done an episode on it though, worth watching. I would recommend watching both right and left wing media on the subject if you want to try to understand the disagreements about it.
I watch John Oliver a lot I like his content and agree with the vast majority of what he says.
I also like watching right wing stuff so I don’t end up in a echo chamber, I find most right wing stuff rediculous. But there’s some crazy thigns happening that I wouldn’t be aware of if I didn’t watch it so I’m glad I do/did
Thanks, I will give it a watch I enjoy his content. I have a controversial opinion but I’m open to have my mind changed.
This is really shitty but it doesn’t surprise me at all. He’s trying to make a shift because he doesn’t want to face repercussions of being labeled transphobic, possibly being widely banned and ostracized.
It’s very different when someone actually realizes they were wrong and want to change and be better. Nutomic isn’t doing that here, he just wants people to give donations and to avoid fallout from him letting his opinions slip publicly.
Bro is literally panicking that he might have to get a real job.
obviously human rights apply to everyone including transgender people.
I’m not going to get bent out of shape on that statement. It isn’t doubling down or escalating like the folks still sending death threats over shit like neopronouns.
I think it’s more the evasion and unwillingness to show support for trans rights, which should be easy. The fact he is hesitant or worried to show support indicates he thinks there is something wrong with the view that trans women are women, etc.
I’m sure this whole “support trans people without question or thought” thing is going to work out spectacularly. Definitely not pushing away allies left and right.
“Do you also perform this kind of background check for every product you buy in the supermarket?”
Uh. Yeah. We do. That’s why we’re constantly coming on here telling people what companies to boycott. Do you not follow your own movements?
What a weird way to “defend” himself. Of course everyone scrutinizes what they buy in the store and what that company does with their money. People boycott products all across the political spectrum.
For such a dedicated “communist” it sure does sound like they just go to Walmart and purchase whatever corporate slop is thrust in front of them. Like the idea of scrutinizing or boycotting groceries companies is such an alien concept to them as to be ridiculous.
Hmm.
He’s deeply into the “grasping at straws” stage of this.
Yeah, did he really think people won’t? It’s pretty damn shitty to also demand free pass just because they’re making stuff that’s being distributed for free. What’s funnier is that he also think people wouldn’t go back to reddit or migrate to piefed or other reddit-like fediverse project. This two guys have the ego of trump.
Just want to say that a large amount of users on lemmygrad and hexbear have complained about this. This post was even added to the slop community on hexbear because, believe it or not, hexbear does care about transphobia. He was called out 8-9 months ago too. As far as I know he is banned from hexbear, but I might be mistaken.
Most ML parties in the US I’ve interacted with have been pro trans. CPUSA, PSL, FRSO, APL, (to name a few) are all supportive of trans people.
Y’all are free to criticize tankies to your hearts content, but Nutomics views on this topic do not represent the views of most of the tankies you’ve interacted with on lemmy.
Do you consider yourself a tankie?
Yeah even Hexbear is against Nutomics right now. I can personally confirm this.
No idea about lemmygrad personally, but Hexbear is currently calling for Nutomics to remain site banned for this. They banned Nutomics. They don’t like him.
I have issues with Hexbear for other reasons, but they are on our side for this issue.
Hexbear will fall in line when the admins give the word. That’s what happened last time, they made a fuss, then their admins told them to suck it up like the good pigs they are. Tankies are authoritarians, so they never fight back.
While I don’t doubt it, is there a citation for this?
Yes, there’s a post on this community about it.
Link, please?
im not at pc atm, so you’ll need to find it yourself
So that’s a “I don’t have a source.”
Marxists arent authoritarian bootlickers.
You don’t understand what you stand for.
You don’t get to say you care about transphobia, then support multiple nations that persecute LGBT+ people.
Hexbear doesn’t give a shit about transphobia unless pointing it out suits whatever thread they’re brigading.
I mean does that also go for supporters of the US and UK? You can support a country without supporting every action they ever took.
Pretty much all leftists I’ve spoken to rightfully calls out the problems AES countries have had with LGBT+ people historically.
It’s illegal to discriminate against trans people in America, jury nullification aside. It’s more of a UK thing these days.
There were Germans who said the same thing about the Reich. Just so that I understand your argument, you’re saying it’s fine for them to have supported the Reich as long as they didn’t support every action they took? What about the dev of Lemmy being a transphobe. Is it ok to support them, even though they don’t support trans rights?
I’m just wondering how far you’re willing to compromise on your morals.
I don’t think that logic really works out, considering you’re using Lemmy, and he’s a dev.
“These pesky brown people should stop criticizing our glorious leader and savior Donald Trump, if they don’t like Trump, they shoud go back to their country”
Sound familiar? This is what you sound like.
Where did that come from?
I don’t support the Nutomic being transphobic and would hope they’re removed.
My argument was that the US and UK also have terrible views on LGBT+ people does your argument also extend to anyone that says they support those countries? Is anyone that supports those countries also not a supporter of trans people?
Is anyone that supports those countries also not a supporter of trans people?
If you support the US government, then no, you absolutely do not support trans people. The president literally wants to get rid of them all. How is that even a question? The UK just ruled that trans people don’t exist.
But western governments being shitty has nothing to do with the actions of other governments, such as Russia or China. You don’t get to point at the US, and absolve anyone else of the responsibility of their own actions.
My point wasn’t that it absolves anything.
The point I was trying to make is that just because someone makes a point of supporting certain actions a country does (reduction of inequality, public ownership of resources, etc) doesn’t mean they’re endorsing every policy that country has. Especially when they’ve clearly been critical of the stance that country has taken on that issue.
You can’t pick and choose here, my dude. It doesn’t matter one fuck if you don’t endorse the way they treat trans people, you’re still supporting someone who persecutes trans people. It’s all or fucking nothing when it comes to human rights. Either you support trans people, or you persecute them.
THERE IS NO FUCKING MIDDLE GROUND OR NUANCED STANCE ON THIS.
Rare cryptagion W
Tbh… Rare Nutomic W. I don’t agree with him, but people on here hounding people over this one very specific issue and trying to make them a social pariah if they have a “wrong” opinion is pathetic.
Flax, this thing where you walk into a thread about trans issues and your only contribution is calling people crazy and pedantry is getting really old. It doesn’t make you look smart, you just come across as someone trying to mask their transphobia (and no, I’m not calling you a transphobe).
I know I’m not a transphobe. I’m just sick of seeing people act like this online. I know exactly how everyone else views it. It makes it hard to stand up for transgender people when some people act like this. And any time I try and point that out, they quickly label me as an enemy. I don’t know who’s leading this movement, but it starts to seem like some weird cult.
I’m not walking into random threads either- it’s appearing on my feed. I’m not deliberately searching it out. I am regularly active in these communities.
Sick of acting like what, having a different opinion and telling you to fuck off when you call them part of a cult? Like, how do you expect shit like “If I was going to be a transphobe, it would be because how you lot” to be received?
Also, first and final warning, I consider the implicit ‘trans cult’ stuff here to be a violation of our ‘no transphobia’ rule.
I’m talking about the idea of “wrongthink” as being cult-like tactics. I’m not saying transgender people are in a cult.
Secondly, when I raise my concern by saying that it “might be” cult-like to try and silence anyone who raises such a concern about transgender people using certain bathrooms, changing rooms, or participating in women’s sports (which is what I’m talking about) you threaten to ban me from the Lemmy instance I have been a part of for two years and have donated to (albeit in small amounts) also, and have been trying to do small acts of helping out here and there. You threaten to ban me from a Lemmy instance based in the United Kingdom for me saying stuff that’s less far gone than our own supreme court. You’re threatening to ban me because I don’t agree with you. Not once have I ever called for a finger of harm to be laid on transgender people. In this thread, I’m simply saying that people claiming a lead developer of lemmy deserves to die is cruel and inhumane. You threaten to ban me because I am standing against people saying that Nutomic deserves to die for not agreeing with them. Can’t you at least understand now where I got the “cult like” tactics idea now? If you disagree with what I say, downvote me. Let me be downvoted. Criticise my opinion. Give a defence. Give me examples on why I shouldn’t use the term “cult” here, yet how it’s okay for other users of this instance to claim a large amount of the British population is in a cult simply because of their religious beliefs.. Don’t threaten to disfellowship me.
Thirdly, this place is where I get to hear the other side. Do you really want to force me to use an echo chamber by banning me?
Flamingos, this is pathetic and a flagrant abuse of admin power. Not once did I ever claim I wanted harm to come to transgender people. In fact, I am standing against the same bullying that another instance used to defederate us. There’s no need to read between the lines here. I barely know what “dogwhistling” is nevermind people accusing me of doing it. I don’t mean any more than what I say. And what I’ve said is that we should calm down on this bullying about other people’s views on what special considerations should be given to transgender people, and that transgender people should be treated with respect, dignity, and be free from harassment like everybody else.
My warning was very pointed and specifically about rhetoric, not the actual underlying opinions.
Give me examples on why I shouldn’t use the term “cult” here, yet how it’s okay for other users of this instance to claim a large amount of the British population is in a cult simply because of their religious beliefs…
The trans cult thing is a common talking point by transphobes to discredit the idea of being trans, that it’s nothing more than brainwashing. I really don’t know how you expect “I don’t know who’s leading this movement, but it starts to seem like some weird cult” to come across, but it reads like you saying anyone with a more progressive opinion to you is in a cult. It’s very easy for someone to make the jump from that to believing you think trans movement more broadly is a cult, especially given you’re a transmedicalist.
Also, that comment by Hossenfeffer is clearly made in jest and, unlike trans people, Christians aren’t a marginalised identity in Britain.
Thirdly, this place is where I get to hear the other side. Do you really want to force me to use an echo chamber by banning me?
No, that’s why I gave a warning. I don’t think you appreciate how much more leeway you get because I understand you come from a conservative background. You constantly say you’re bad with this and when I try to clear up the boundaries of what I consider acceptable, you accuse me of engaging in cult-like tactics. Maybe I was too curt, but I’m trying to help you. I’m trans myself, so I hope you can appreciate why I’m sensitive to this stuff.
There’s no need to read between the lines here. I barely know what “dogwhistling” is nevermind people accusing me of doing it.
I’d really appreciate if you did read up on it. I can only moderate based on what you write, not what’s in your head. I and others can’t tell the difference between genuine ignorance or pretending to be ignorant to sneak bigotry in under the radar. The Green Party has a good page on trans/queer dogwhistles.
Thank you for clearing this up. I would prefer an approach like this rather than a straight ban threat. I can understand how you misunderstood what I meant by “cult” now, I should have been more clear. I’m talking about the cancel culture aspect. I should have been more clear about that, and I apologise. The movement I was referring to was the movement of people who want to silence people who disagree with them surrounding this topic. If someone believes in full recognition and inclusion of trans women as cis women, for example, but wouldn’t call for the death or claiming people they disagree with deserve to die, that’s not what I was referring to (Again, I should have been more clear). I think the context of the thread helps, including where my comment I was quoting and in response to someone telling someone else “you don’t deserve to breathe” which I stand by, the treatment of that user and hate of that sense directed towards nutomic is disgusting.
Also, ty for the link!
Are the terms afab/amab still okay? I try and use them as opposed to “biological women” as I heard that one could be a dogwhistle before
Sorry if it came across that hostile, I tend to be snappy after waking up and we’ve had a lot of transphobia lately.
Are the terms afab/amab still okay? I try and use them as opposed to “biological women” as I heard that one could be a dogwhistle before
AFAB/AMAB are fine, encouraged even. ‘Biological women’ is generally used by gender critical types as a dog whistle to mean that only cis women are real women.
this is gross. honestly reads like “i agree with all that BLM stuff as long as they don’t act up”
I don’t support BLM. Doesn’t mean I don’t think that black people should have the same rights as everyone else. I do.
More like “I’m not transphobic, I’ve spoken with a few trans before!”
fucken seriously. the phrasing of “you lot” is only just hitting me. that sort of passive bigotry somehow feels worse than outright transphobia.
How can you call “the transgender topic” at all “controversial”? You either support and protect minorities or you don’t.
Also, my man db0 is just the goat.I mean, it is absolutely controversial. Whether or not it should be controversial is what you seem to be referring to. I 100% agree that it shouldn’t be controversial, because human rights should never be controversial. But as it currently stands, it is an extremely divisive topic with strong opinions in both directions; claiming otherwise is outright disingenuous.
How can you call “the transgender topic” at all “controversial”?
🤯
What universe are you living in where everyone agrees and has the same opinions about transgender people? It’s more or less the definition of a controversial topic.
The world of morality purity testing. According to the democrats or the “left” in america right now, if you don’t pass the test at all times you are scum and should be banned and silenced. I’m just amazed so many people apparently have made not a single mistake in their lives.
I’ll give a good example, I think. Pete Hegseth is bad at his job and says controversial things, and yet all I hear about him is how much he likes drinking. You don’t need the purity test to dislike the guy, and yet its the first choice anyways.
Because bad at his job and says controversial things is subjective, but being an alcoholic in charge of the military, where being an alcoholic gets you kicked out (if discovered), should be disqualifying. It is what should be a common ground view across the political spectrum. If you’re constantly drunk and drink at work, you are not fit to be in charge of the military.
The point I’m making is that there isn’t a single story about him being drunk at his current job, yet all we hear about is how hes an alcoholic. I don’t understand how the possibility he might drink at work outweighs his actual choices and actions.
So, in your mind, setting aside differences in politics and raising concerns about the secretary of defense drinking to excess at work, regularly getting black out drunk, and losing inhibitions while intoxicated to the point of needing to pay someone $50k to drop rape charges is a “purity test”?
Or is it only a purity test when someone says something you agree with is actually a really shitty sentiment?
Maybe you should make note of how “the left” isn’t one person. Being able to find someone for every topic who has a very strong reaction doesn’t make it make sense to combine their opinions and extrapolate that to everyone.
Oh I had no idea all that happened while secretary of defense. So strange how I heard those things before he got the job though.
The point I’m making is that people calling him an alcoholic are late to the party, hes done far dumber stuff than drinking champagne out of a hot tub since hes taken his new position.
And your concern is that people can’t take issue with more than one thing at once? Did those stupid things he’s done recently make him not a rapist with a concerning alcohol problem?
Come to think of it, why does it matter if he raped someone before being appointed or not? We shouldn’t have a rapist as the secretary of defense regardless of when he did it. Likewise we shouldn’t have someone with a concerning alcohol problem handling classified military information.
Frankly speaking, “drunken rapist” is the closest you’re going to get to a “middle of the road” concern about a candidate. Not that it mattered, since as you point out, only the left seems to care about “not putting rapists in positions of high power”.
Is that an extreme example or did he really rape someone?
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25362284-hegseth-police-report/
https://apnews.com/article/hegseth-sex-assault-payment-trump-6674cc8cfee654c374725948e01ff666
As with all things legal in nature, he raped someone in the lay sense of the word. Legally speaking, he was accused and investigated for sexual assault, with law enforcement finding sufficient grounds to forward the case to prosecutors, who declined to press charges due to lack of sufficient evidence. He later paid the woman $50,000 not to sue in civil court.
What’s insufficient for the courts is more than enough to justify calling him a rapist, particularly since the police usually decline to refer rape cases to prosecutors at all, when they’re even reported to police in an investigative capacity.
My rights are not a controversy. You’re just a bigot.
they are not bigot, they just dont live in an echo chamber.
whether you like it or not, there’s lots people not thinking like you. I’m not one of them, just to clarify before I suddenly become a bigot, but people like that do exist, in masses
A lot of people thought that blacks shouldn’t be allowed to go to school.
yes, and what does it matter here? that’s another example of a controversial thing
If you “have an opinion about transgender people” that involves taking away their rights, or putting them in harms way and that prioritises the needs of everyone else first, and the needs of trans people last, if at all, then you have a bigoted opinion.
I know its a huge job but will Blahaj ever consider migrating to PieFed over this (presumably when the tooling ia ready)?
Yep, it’s absolutely something we’d consider once database migration becomes possible
and where exactly was that my opinion? it is not an opinion, that such people exist. that is a sad and hard fact.
but sure, kill the messenger, call me a bigot for pointing out reality.
I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking in general, and the specific context was the person earlier in this discussion, who you explicitly stated is not a bigot.
So where exactly did the earlier guy state that was his opinion? He got called a bigot simply immediately after calling the issue controversial, not because he said he believed the things that you claimed.
Technically, they are controversial. There are people who support your right to live and there are people who dont support it
If half of humans thought water was dangerous, drinking water would be a controversial topic
Its not black and white like that. There are people who support trans people but are concerned about the medicine and psychology, considering how young and mistake prone those fields are. Keep in mind there was a time where labotomies were defended in a similar way.
I don’t think taking HRT and getting a literal lobotomy are equal…
Probably not 1:1 but the point is that its risky when medicine moves too quickly, and human ego has proven to be an extremely potent force. I use extreme examples to make a point.
Mainly what concerns me right now is that people who have concerns or questions about the medicine or science are routinely harassed and/or banned from trans communities. That, and the amount of faith the general public has in our understanding of psychology.
Probably not 1:1 but the point is that its risky when medicine moves too quickly
Healthcare has been moving in this direction since at least… oh, that’s right, the Third Reich. It’s not moving too fast right now, it’s been moving too slow for the last century.
Mainly what concerns me right now is that people who have concerns or questions about the medicine or science are routinely harassed and/or banned from trans communities.
-
Which trans communities? There are some that are open to educating others. There are some that are not. It is absolutely not a trans person or community’s responsibility to educate you, and sometimes people want to have a space to exist without constantly justifying that existence to others. Even good faith questions can be exhausting when it’s your life that is being questioned.
-
Exactly what questions do you consider to be valid, good faith questions, presented to people or communities that are open to this discussion, and yet result in harassment?
-
because the science is there and they keep dringing up the one study that has been wildly discredited.
There are also people who arent on either extreme, but that doesnt really matter in the context of deciding if a subject is controversial or not
What rights do non trans have that the trans don’t?
How about re-entering the US as a US citizen with a passport doesn’t have a gender matching their birth certificate?
Yeah, that’s a thing that’s happened in the last 100-ish days…
The right to live as the gender you want
That is a right u got in most first world countries.
List some examples. Very few countries have equal right for trans people enshrined in law. Certainly not in the US or the UK.
In Australia, UK, nz, and I’m sure a bunch of places in Europe. Its illegal to discriminate based upon gender identity.
The rest of the rights are given to all people regardless of how they identify.
Not going to bite at this too hard, but how about starting with using a bathroom that matches their identity without people freaking out and trying to arrest them in several states?
What about people who don’t fit into a gender binary? How are they supposed to find a bathroom that matches their specific identity?
Moving the goalposts, five-yard penalty.
They get both options, depends on how one feels that day. Or, maybe we just make it universal to not specify who a room is for and get over it.
This is, to be honest, the only correct solution to the bathroom issue. Make em universal and make the stalls more private so people don’t feel as vulnerable to share bathrooms.
How I wish everyone would just switch to “has urinals and stalls” and “only has stalls” and be done with it.
They just pick whichever one is the most convenient to use at the time.
So its OK to force people to go into a bathroom that doesn’t match their identity?
Weather the whole concept causes controversy vs if trans identity is valid are two separate things.
At one point (before scrambling my instance so lost to this account) I made it a point to create a thread on a LGBT comm just to try and get some insight from people who actually lived it since I’m pretty far off from it and it was pretty enlightening. There are still some things I don’t really understand and don’t expect I will without direct experience.
In the end though it doesn’t cost anything for people to just treat the trans community as regular humans who in no way are hurting you. To that end the notion of if trans ID is valid shouldn’t be seen as controversial outside of by those refusing to allow someone else to live their life as they want to.
I love how if it’s controversial is now a controversial topic.
-sigh- It isn’t about IF it’s controversial, but WHY it is seen that way. Conservatism requires a minority to use as a boogeyman that needs defeated. They use this manufactured scare as a way to get votes and power.
It has been the tactic ever since Feudalism fell as a way to get back the power they held back then.
I’m ignoring your previous statements to reach out in good faith and hope for the best. Don’t give in to the propaganda that trans people are more likely to commit crimes than the greater population. Instead, they are more likely to be the victims, and the laws passed to hurt them end up hurting cis people as well.
I got absolutely nothing against adults doing whatever the fuck they want with themselves and other consenting adults.
I’m not a conservative I’m centre left (in Australia, so that’s probably communist by american standards). I take issue with 3 things related to transgenderism (let’s hope mentioning them doesn’t get me banned).
- I dont like the idea of fucking with kids hormones
- Every study I’ve read has proven that mtf gives an advantage in some physical attributed related to sports
- People who are not trans using it as cover to do bad shit in women’s only places
Everything else I couldn’t give a single fuck what u do or what u call urself. Fuck spiders for all I care.
sidenote: How are you feeling about the election results? It’s quite historic.
I’m pretty happy. 20% of uni debt gone. Should be good for our economy but these fuckers are taking my inheritance.
Better than the alternatives tho.
- Good thing we have doctors involved to help kids and parents make informed choices then. Kinda like how I don’t like the idea of fucking with kids internal organs, and trust licensed professionals and standards organizations to set baselines of care and apply them to individuals.
- It’s such a vanishingly rare phenomenon that it’s just not even worth bothering with. A woman born as a woman with naturally higher testosterone levels also has an advantage, but we rarely see freakouts around “person with inmate physical advantage who spent a lot of time training shouldn’t be able to compete against people without an inmate physical advantage”. Michael Phelps has unusually long arms and big feet, but we don’t group athletes in most sports by anything other than gender.
- That doesn’t have anything to do with transgender people. We also don’t really see it happening, so it’s a weird one to be concerned with. You’re more likely to encounter someone dressing up as a police officer and doing bad things, or actually being a police officer. Weirdly no protracted social dialogue about how to handle police officers detaining and sexually assaulting women. There’s also the “hilarious” flip side: if you tell trans people they can’t use their genders bathroom because you’re concerned a man will dress like a woman and go into the woman’s room, then you’re suddenly going to find the transmen back in the women’s room, meaning your sneaky pervert no longer even needs a disguise.
Regarding medical professionals and medical standards, how do you feel about Europe and some countries banning hormone blockers?
I would push back slightly on the term “ban”.
The US has parties pushing for a ban, which entails it becoming a punishable offense to offer the treatment to children.
As far as I’m aware, European countries have shifted standards of care in response to changing data, and De-Emphasized the treatment in favor of other avenues.European policies are notably different from the outright bans for adolescents passed in 22 U.S. states, some of which threaten doctors with prison time or investigate parents for child abuse. The European countries will still allow gender treatments for certain adolescents and are requiring new clinical trials to study and better understand their effects.
“We haven’t banned the treatment,” said Dr. Mette Ewers Haahr, a psychiatrist who leads Denmark’s sole youth gender clinic, in Copenhagen. Effective treatments must consider human rights and patient safety, she said. “You have to weigh both.”
Although I tend to align with the American academy of pediatrics, as long as it’s a reasoned, evidence based conversation developing standards of care that are then applied by the care team working with the patient and their parents it seems appropriate to me. That leaves the standards of “good medicine” in the realm of public experts, and the specifics of treatment to the experts directly working with the person in question and let’s them make the appropriate choices and consultation.
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I see it as a matter of consent. Children can’t consent. Simple as that. From my readings (of peer reviewed papers none of which u have managed to cite) the suicide, depression, and self harm risk are not alternated to any degree of statistical confidence by hormonal treatments amongst non adults. Thus delaying treatment until they are adults shouldn’t have any adverse risks.
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Trans women are significantly overrepresented within heigh level female sports than what would be expected according to statistics. This data is statistically significant enough to show that trans women just happen to be better at sports on average than cis women. The stats don’t make any judgements as to why or how they just are. Their are also other papers that have been tracking various data points between cis and trans women over time. Turns out when u look at those graphs u can see the difference in the data grouping very easily. Yes once u normalise for height, weight, muscle mass, and bone mass cis and trans are identical but now I’ve just shifted the issue to one of trans women having a systematic advantage in height, weight, muscle mass, and bone mass.
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Their are truly evil people in this world who will lie, cheat, and corrupt any system for their own benifit. At the moment the barrier to get your gender change recognised by many governments (generalising for the 1st world here obviously) is low enough that corrupting that system for the purposes of exploitation by bad people is too easy.
It’s weird how we let children do all sorts of medically warranted things with parental consent under the consultation of a medical professional. It’s almost like if consent is the issue, then the entire topic is a non-issue because we’ve already got a system in place.
You don’t need to consent to other people’s children’s medical care. It’s none of your business. Fuck off you nosy bastard.None of that, or your oft mentioned papers, have anything to do with the fact that it’s a vanishingly rare occurrence and not worth caring about. I honestly do not care if a trans woman is better at basketball or not. It’s sports, it doesn’t really matter unlike “respecting people”, which does matter.
As for 3… Has it ever happened? And what does it have to do with transgender people? Do they check your ID for gender on the way into the bathroom? What’s to stop a cis man from walking into a woman’s bathroom and doing whatever you’re afraid of without a disguise? Do you think cross dressing and a wig will make people just let the assault happen?
Do you think women will be more comfortable with a bearded man in the bathroom? Because that’s what you’re advocating for. If trans women can’t use the women’s room because a cis man might sneak it, then trans men must use the women’s room, which makes it easier for said cis man to sneak in. A cis man looks a lot more like a trans man than a cis man looks like a trans woman.How concerned are you about making sure that police don’t get into women’s spaces and commit evil acts? The barrier to becoming a cop is lower than changing your gender, so the path of least resistance is to become a cop. You’ll probably get a paid vacation while they investigate your evil too.
And that’s not a hypothetical by the way. There are more sexual assaults by on-duty police officers than by trans persons in total, or by trans impersonators. Far more. So if you’re concerned for women’s safety, start there. Or almost anywhere else, statistically.
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- Are you one of the kids that have been forced to live their childhood as a gender they hate?
Nope. But then again I didn’t have to suffer the holocaust to say the Nazis are evil. We can and I would argue are morally required to have opinions on things that effect people other than ourselves. That’s kinda one of the main outcomes of empathy.
But i am one of the people i was talking about
Gender dysphoria is terrible
These are all conservative talking points. You’ve fallen for the propaganda.
please rebuke then
ricecake did: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/18450729
Well if its propaganda then it must be provably false.
What’s wrong with my point of view?
You could do some research online about all those points if you cared enough to. It’s not my job to educate you.
I’m not going to say I agree with nutomic on this one cos that would get me banned.
thank you for your self control and consideration of others
I always try to engage in good faith. I don’t have any hatred, disrespect, or wish harm upon anyone. I have my beliefs others have theirs and the only way to bridge that divide of ideology is through rational good faith speech.
“good faith”. You have to be joking.
nothing says “good faith” like making up an entire fictional situation over exaggerating to hell just because you have an issue with what other people do with their bodies
doublespeak goes crazyy
Well you’ve taken my comment wildly out of context. This comment was in reply to someone suggesting that all bathrooms be gender neutral.
Every single bar in the city I live has a giant trough which on a regular basis will have a minimum of 6 guys pissing in simultaneously.
Removing this in favour of stalls will greatly decrease the bars total pisses per second (pps) and increase the time per piss (tpp) which is inversely proportional to the amount of beer I can get in during happy hour.
Your instance bans for hate speech, then? If so, I’m sure you’d be welcome somewhere in the tankie triumvirate. It’d make it easier for the sensible world to not deal with your regressive ass.
The tankies banned me for being a liberal.
Follow your leader, Nazi. You don’t deserve to breathe.
Hey, be nice
Look at u go diluting what is arguable the worst thing in human history by comparing it to some guy who doesn’t support that at all. Your the only one here who thinks that some people don’t deserve to breathe. Which would technically make your beliefs more Nazi than any of mine.
They aren’t the only person who thinks the only good Nazi is a dead one.
Please provide any proof u have that I’m a Nazi. Cos I’m sure as shit I ain’t.
I didn’t say anything like that. Why are you getting so defensive?
The user I have had tagged as a right-winger for a while now agrees with Nutomic on his transphobia, shocking.
I would say I’m centre left but I guess since I may or may not agree with u on one particular point that make me a right-winger.
Ah, so not a Nazi, just a terf collaborator. In other words, a dude who is too scared to come out as an actual Nazi.
He’s an enlightened ““centrist””. I’m very familiar with these types.
Their is a lot of difference between wanting the extermination of entire groups of people and disagreeing about the classification of people in sports.
Think before u start comparing people to one of the worst things in human history.
Think before you start acting like one of the worst things in human history.
I haven’t done that. But if I start rounding people up and putting them on a train to Poland u will be the first to know.
No, just flights to El Salvador.
Honestly… If I was going to be a transphobe, it would be because how you lot act on here, not due to actual right wing influences. Thankfully I have spoken to a few people who are transgender activists who are actually respectful, decent, and well grounded people. But the proportion of people I come across who aren’t at least makes me want to have nothing to do with the movement itself. Which is a real shame, because a few transgender people I have come across and know are lovely, but there’s a large voice out there giving them a bad name, and I feel like that voice may be contributing to the current political shift.
If I was going to be a transphobe
No if. You ARE a transphobe.
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
This quote gets a lot of use, I know, but it’s because there are so many Enlightened Centrists out there keeping it relevant.
Or it’s just people like you, the “peaceful moderate,” who wishes to dictate the timeline of another person’s life and rights, who only supports moral progress as long as it’s not personally upsetting or even disrupting to you.
You do realize who absolutely vile what you just posted makes you sound, right? Like, you literally just victim blamed an entire prosecuted group for having activists that take issue with people trying to genocide the group.
The fact that you think this is worthy of posting in this community is bizarre. It’s hard for me to imagine a more agreeable and reasonable statement.
A lot of users on hexbear and lemmygrad, along with some users on .ml, have some extreme political positions that are worth documenting in this community. But I don’t think this post fits the criteria at all. In general, I don’t think Nutomic has ever really expressed any tankie opinions, so I don’t understand why people continue to persecute him while using the software that he helped build.
If you have a problem with lemmy.ml as a server that’s one thing, but it’s pretty trashy to harass the developer of a FOSS platform that you use for free. How about finding someone else to pick on, there’s plenty of worse people out there.
Tell us you’re a terf without saying you hate trans people.
Transphobic bigotry means you shouldn’t be breathing, you piece of shit. Fuck you.
Filling the thread with hate and death wishes. What a positive vibe your bringing. Real good faith engagement.
omg a trans-inclusive space had a hostile reaction to transphobia?
someone alert the press, this is BIG.
so I don’t understand why people continue to persecute him while using the software that he helped build.
It’s an open source project. If you want strict controls over who uses your software, an open source license is not the right choice.
Sure, I understand that. Which is part of the reason I’m skeptical of tankie accusations, because building open source software doesn’t seem like the actions of a tankie. The structure of Lemmy is decentralized and grassroots, while tankies tend to support and advocate for centralized and authoritarian structures. So it’s kind of the opposite of the purported beliefs of tankies.
It doesn’t quite fit, true, but Nutomic is a tankie. He’s not as mask-off as the other lemmy developers, but he’s still a tankie, transphobic and is okay with tankie extremism.
Also consider this a warning: no apologia – No defending tankies.
If he is a tankie, then post the evidence. If he is transphobic, post the evidence.
I don’t agree with either of those assertions. To me, this post borders on harassment.
Don’t care what you think. Evidently, you’re in the wrong with everyone disagreeing with you. Take the hint and step down.
I’ve given you a warning, drop the topic.
Evidently, you’re in the wrong with everyone disagreeing with you.
Flawless logic.
Is it allowed for people to express disagreement on this community or does everyone always have to agree with you?
I hold admins to a much higher standard. You don’t look good right now, and it’ll be better if you just drop the topic.
If he is transphobic, post the evidence.
… It’s right there in the post…
I don’t see how that statement is transphobic.
I’m going to assume you are asking this in good faith and to be respectful to Nutomic.
Transphobic evidence: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
I couldn’t find anything about him being a tankie but I didn’t look for very long. If someone has a screenshot they can reply with it.
However, I think allowing Dessalines to blatantly censor anti Russian and anti ccp posts on lemmy.ml and his “support from capitalist government = bad” ideology from the picture above is reason enough to call him a tankie.
I’ve seen it. I don’t agree that it was a transphobic statement.
I couldn’t find anything about him being a tankie but I didn’t look for very long.
And yet you’re happy to assume anyway. Seems like an unfair and biased judgment on your part.
Nutomic’s fellow developer, co-admin of ML and admin of grad claims that the full scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia was a “negotiating tactic”.
Mass summary killing of civilians in North Eastern Kyiv suburbs during battle for Kyiv was a “negotiation tactic”. The brutal siege of Mariupol with a mother fucking bombing of maternity clinic and mass killing of hiding civilians in the Mariupol drama theatre was a “negotiation tactic”.
Nutomic clearly has no issue with this (because if he did, he wouldn’t be working with that degenerate). He also has no issue constant support for russian propaganda demonstrated by his co-admin of ML.
It’s like claiming the cameraman working for RT isn’t a supporter of russian genocidal imperialism because you don’t see him make any statements on the camera.
Nutomic clearly has no issue with this (because if he did, he wouldn’t be working with that degenerate). He also has no issue constant support for russian propaganda demonstrated by his co-admin of ML.
I don’t agree with this assumption. By that logic, one could argue that anyone who uses Lemmy has no issue with those positions (because if we did, we wouldn’t be supporting the project of that “degenerate”). Sometimes in life we are forced to accept imperfect allies in order to accomplish our goals.
I am not supporting Dessalines or his degenerate tankies. I use Windows, that doesn’t mean I “support” Microsoft.
Let me try a different approach. Imagine the following hypothetical scenario:
Al-Queda stages an invasion of the north eastern part of the US. They land in Long Island and during their attempt to reach NYC, start mass summary killing of civilians in Long Island before the US army is able to kick them out.
Individual A claims that this a mere negotiation tactic and that the mass killing in Long Island are a CIA fabrication. Individual A also labels any source other than Al-Queda propaganda media as misinformation and routinely promotes new media from Al-Queda’s propaganda arm.
Individual B is publicly associated with individual A and also just so happens to have a avatar of Sayyid Qutb, one of the key ideological sources of Al-Queda and other violet jihadist organizations.
I somehow doubt you would take a statement from me about “Sometimes in life…” as a legitimate argument. On the contrary, you would probably think I am being rather provincial and arrogant, no?
I am not supporting the Dessalines or his degenerate tankies. I use Windows, that doesn’t mean I “support” Microsoft.
I understand that. Similarly, just because Nutomic is working with Dessalines to code an open source software project doesn’t imply that they share the exact same beliefs.
I don’t get how your analogy relates to this discussion. I’m not sure what it is that you think you’re fighting against, but I disagree with your aggressive and judgmental approach. It seems to me that you are provoking unecessary conflict against the wrong people.
I am pointing out that your tone comes as condescending and paternalistic “Sometimes in life…” considering Dessalines openly supports mass killings, promotes russian propaganda and claims all facts that don’t align with his worldview are a CIA conspiracy.
It is reasonable to question Nutomic’s association with Dessalines. It’s not a matter of being rigid in your views and not having an appreciation for a “big tent” approach. A big tent approach is not a deus ex machina that magically solves anything and everything. There are times when it viable and there are times when it is not.
Furthermore, the issue is not black and white. There are many other options available. Nutomic can take over Lemmy development while Dessalines can admin/mod ML and grad (and tankies can give him money for it). Nutomic can replace his Che Guevara avatar with something neutral, like the Lemmy mouse with a tool icon to highlight that he is a Lemmy dev.
This is clearly a major issue. Just look at the funding request thread on LW. I am not the only one who is unhappy with the tankie affiliation. Even on other social networks, Lemmy has a reputation as being infested with tankies, this is a clear blocker for growth.
A) There’s literally a pinned post in this comm that this post is, essentially, a sequel too.
B.1) One of the things they always say on the Tankie Triad is that their instance(s) are trans safe spaces, how can .ml be a trans safe space with a literal transphobe as main admin?
B.2) There’s no place in a just world for transphobia
I don’t see how that’s transphobic tbh
Then you should fucking follow your leader you nazi piece of shit
allowing biological men to compete as women [is bourgeois = bad]
This is blatant transphobia. Just imagine it with nationalities : “allowing people born in Mexico to compete under USA banner is bad” would feel awful.
The geographic location of someone’s birthplace has no inherent relevance to their athletic ability.
Biological sex has a major influence on athletic ability.
Apples to oranges.
Depending on the sport it can have. Come and try to beat some of the old ones of my town to a game of Pétanque, i guarantee you being born in France would help you.
More generally, as gender defined at birth, geographic location can have a huge impact on the acquired skills (different training, funds to sports, mindsets, etc.). The impact of biological sex (and i guess what you mean is innate advantages) is also greatly majored : MTF athletes would win every game if that was a great deal, and that’s not the case.
Apples and oranges are fruit, round, sweet, can be pressed in juice, are a way of describing colors, are both the name of tech companies, etc. Just because there is a slightest difference in two concepts does not make a comparison impossible.
Depending on the sport it can have. Come and try to beat some of the old ones of my town to a game of Pétanque, i guarantee you being born in France would help you.
If someone was born in France but then moved to another country as an infant and grew up somewhere else, they wouldn’t have any advantage at Petanque as a result of being born in France. Thus we can easily observe that the location of birth is not a significant factor in determining ability, but rather the socialization that occurs as a young person can be a factor. We can use the birth location as an imperfect proxy for making assumptions about developmental experiences, but it’s not a direct influence.
In contrast, if someone were born with an XY genotype (male) and socialized as a female from birth, that person would still possess inherent athletic advantages over females. Biological sex has a direct influence over the physical characteristics of an organism.
It’s not a slight difference, it’s a fundamental difference that makes your comparison flawed.
Man, there was an example that was actually done by history, right there for you
“The blacks clearly have natural physical advantages over white people. They have had hundreds of years of breeding for strength, and endurance, from selective buck breeding of the slave holders. They have no place playing baseball with with white men.”
